CLUES TO THE LOST DUTCMAN MINE

[traveller777]

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What does broken link mean? I can still see posts. And can still post.

 

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[The Grimbeeper]

How can you be certain that it does not exist? There was a real person named Jacob Waltz, he died in the shop of his friend Julia Thomas, she and her adopted son attempted to find the mine based no Waltz's directions, Dick Holmes, whom was in the room when Waltz died, also got a set of directions and spent many years in the search. Waltz sold a large amount of raw gold to help Julia save her business, and was seen selling gold by a number of other witnesses over the years. None of the people who knew Waltz doubted that he had a rich gold mine, hidden somewhere in the Superstition mountains. Even the carpenter who built his drywasher for him, later went searching for the mine. Several pieces of jewelry and a beautiful match box made from the ore found under Jacob Waltz's deathbed in a candle box still exist, and this ore does not match any kniown source. It is easy to say "it never existed" when no one has found it, but that does not mean it does not exist. Look how long people said that the fabled city of Ubar never existed, the "city so evil that the desert swallowed it up" - until found by the assistance of satellite imagery.

If you have a problem with lost mines in general, keep in mind that a good number of lost mines have been found and are not even discussed today, for they are no longer lost. The once famous lost Mojave gold mine, located west of Quartzsite AZ, was at one time one of the most famous lost mines in AZ; today you can walk in to look it over. The lost Breyfogle mine, also one of the most famous lost mines of all, was found and is today known as the Amargosa mine in CA. Just because no one has found the lost Dutchman mine, does not prove that it never existed. Waltz's gold came from a mine, and perhaps some day, someone will be lucky enough to find it.

Good luck and good hunting Austin, I hope you will open your mind to the possibilities of what may be found; do some research into the Lost Dutchman and be prepared to be surprised that it is indeed factual, and I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

[coffee]

Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence..

 

[393stroker]

It's all good, the fun is in looking the pleasure will be in finding.

All I can do is read what information others have provided over the years, then throw in my own brand of what makes sense, go out and look. So far I have found markers that others may know about and have not mentioned or they have not been discovered by anyone else. Also some areas with quartz veins with pyrite and other minerals.

I have also seen some of the most amazing desert scenery in the world, and watched as the monsoon's roll in with thunder and lightning, drop buckets of rain to fill the washes and turn the desert into a multicolored garden brimming with life. So even if I don't find gold or silver, I still take the time to look around and admire the scenery with awe, and when I sit around with grey hair I can share those memories with others.

I miss you brother!

 

[Cubfan64]

Likewise

 

[Gare]

How can you be certain that it does not exist? There was a real person named Jacob Waltz, he died in the shop of his friend Julia Thomas, she and her adopted son attempted to find the mine based no Waltz's directions, Dick Holmes, whom was in the room when Waltz died, also got a set of directions and spent many years in the search. Waltz sold a large amount of raw gold to help Julia save her business, and was seen selling gold by a number of other witnesses over the years. None of the people who knew Waltz doubted that he had a rich gold mine, hidden somewhere in the Superstition mountains. Even the carpenter who built his drywasher for him, later went searching for the mine. Several pieces of jewelry and a beautiful match box made from the ore found under Jacob Waltz's deathbed in a candle box still exist, and this ore does not match any kniown source. It is easy to say "it never existed" when no one has found it, but that does not mean it does not exist. Look how long people said that the fabled city of Ubar never existed, the "city so evil that the desert swallowed it up" - until found by the assistance of satellite imagery.

If you have a problem with lost mines in general, keep in mind that a good number of lost mines have been found and are not even discussed today, for they are no longer lost. The once famous lost Mojave gold mine, located west of Quartzsite AZ, was at one time one of the most famous lost mines in AZ; today you can walk in to look it over. The lost Breyfogle mine, also one of the most famous lost mines of all, was found and is today known as the Amargosa mine in CA. Just because no one has found the lost Dutchman mine, does not prove that it never existed. Waltz's gold came from a mine, and perhaps some day, someone will be lucky enough to find it.

Good luck and good hunting Austin, I hope you will open your mind to the possibilities of what may be found; do some research into the Lost Dutchman and be prepared to be surprised that it is indeed factual, and I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

[coffee]

ABSOLUTELY A GREAT POST !!!

 

[Gare]

Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence..

Another great posting

 

[markmar]

Critical real clues to the LDM inclined shaft and LDM Waltz's mine, which everybody should take in consideration:

- From both LDM mines, Weavers Needle is visible.
- The Military trail can be seen from Waltz's mine, about a quarter mile to the southeast
- Someone has to climb 40 ft from the bottom of the ravine to the Waltz's mine , in regards to start to see see WN
- The distance between LDM Peralta mine and LDM Waltz's mine is about 60 yards

 

[Idahodutch]

Critical real clues to the LDM inclined shaft and LDM Waltz's mine, which everybody should take in consideration:

- From both LDM mines, Weavers Needle is visible.
- The Military trail can be seen from Waltz's mine, about a quarter mile to the southeast
- Someone has to climb 40 ft from the bottom of the ravine to the Waltz's mine , in regards to start to see see WN
- The distance between LDM Peralta mine and LDM Waltz's mine is about 60 yards

You want the recognition, and you want to inject your own clue versions.
So far you called Holmes manuscript directions … well basically garbage.
Same with Bicknell’s Jan 1895 article..
Called it a work of fiction.
So mr markmar, your source for the clues you speak of, theoretically should have come from other sources other than those from Waltz while he was dying. ?
Talk fast you migh somehow skirt out of you own pickle.
You want to use clues that never came from waltz or at least from Holmes or Julia, then you asking all of us to do the same thing, are you not?
Why do you feel threatened markmar, you put yourself onto your own pedestals, and try to glory in it.
How that working. Why do feel the need to explain ….. sure looks like markmar getting out of sorts over it.

Another example, you mocked a member about mine(s) on Malipai. You said because you never found any maps for over there, that there was nothing to see.
You were shown to be full of nonsense, then came back to insult the poster that defended himself against your attack, by posting a photograph.

Will you ever stop acting out every time your stuff is shown to be the hogwash.

I’ll be fair here and also say that you have come up with some Interesting reading material. Who knows, some of it may be true. 👍
You days of mocking posters that are just sharing their stuff only show’s your true self, your insecurities etc.

I really hope your days get more productive….. oh yeah, back-up markmar.
You want to tear down information that’s backed up, then back yours up, or don’t do it at all.
Idahodutch 😎👍

 

[markmar]

You want the recognition, and you want to inject your own clue versions.
So far you called Holmes manuscript directions … well basically garbage.
Same with Bicknell’s Jan 1895 article..
Called it a work of fiction.
So mr markmar, your source for the clues you speak of, theoretically should have come from other sources other than those from Waltz while he was dying. ?
Talk fast you migh somehow skirt out of you own pickle.
You want to use clues that never came from waltz or at least from Holmes or Julia, then you asking all of us to do the same thing, are you not?
Why do you feel threatened markmar, you put yourself onto your own pedestals, and try to glory in it.
How that working. Why do feel the need to explain ….. sure looks like markmar getting out of sorts over it.

Another example, you mocked a member about mine(s) on Malipai. You said because you never found any maps for over there, that there was nothing to see.
You were shown to be full of nonsense, then came back to insult the poster that defended himself against your attack, by posting a photograph.

Will you ever stop acting out every time your stuff is shown to be the hogwash.

I’ll be fair here and also say that you have come up with some Interesting reading material. Who knows, some of it may be true. 👍
You days of mocking posters that are just sharing their stuff only show’s your true self, your insecurities etc.

I really hope your days get more productive….. oh yeah, back-up markmar.
You want to tear down information that’s backed up, then back yours up, or don’t do it at all.
Idahodutch 😎👍

Some know the truth, some have dreams and some have audacity. Half of Waltz's clues are accurate and all the other are just fiction or distorted clues told by others.
You will never learn the truth and your thirsd for glory will be proven as your own defect. Stay calm and listen to those who have something to say that would help yourself and others in their research.

Good luck

PS
Have you ever asked yourself why Waltz didn't give the exact distance from the mine to the sharp peak? This clue would ended the mistery. Maybe he wanted to take the location to his grave.

 

[axer]

Some know the truth, some have dreams and some have audacity. Half of Waltz's clues are accurate and all the other are just fiction or distorted clues told by others.
You will never learn the truth and your thirsd for glory will be proven as your own defect. Stay calm and listen to those who have something to say that would help yourself and others in their research.

Good luck

PS
Have you ever asked yourself why Waltz didn't give the exact distance from the mine to the sharp peak? This clue would ended the mistery. Maybe he wanted to take the location to his grave.

Jacob Waltz took gold out of 2 types of deposits, quartz and placer. The clues do not often mention which deposit they lead to. When looking at all existing clues starting with the oldest(Spanish), Pima, Apache, Mexican, Thorne, Waltz, it should be possible to seperate all the clues into 2 main locations for the source. I believe this involves tracking all of the more obscure and weak clues given by less credible historic sources, in fact all sources. It's just a matter of time before this gold is found, it's been fun searching, now that the heat is breaking I'll go search some more.

 

[markmar]

Jacob Waltz took gold out of 2 types of deposits, quartz and placer. The clues do not often mention which deposit they lead to. When looking at all existing clues starting with the oldest(Spanish), Pima, Apache, Mexican, Thorne, Waltz, it should be possible to seperate all the clues into 2 main locations for the source. I believe this involves tracking all of the more obscure and weak clues given by less credible historic sources, in fact all sources. It's just a matter of time before this gold is found, it's been fun searching, now that the heat is breaking I'll go search some more.

Someone should not base his research in very old clues, because there are many gold mines which were worked by Spaniards, Mexicans, Waltz and few others, mines which were not the same. Also the Pimas and the Apache clues could be for more ancient mines and gold caches than what the Peraltas found and worked.

The first Peralta group went in the Superstitions in 1748, as Spanish citizens, to search for the gold bars deposit which a group of older Spaniards mined in those mountains. The Grant that Peralta received was for that purpose. They panned the streams for about five years ( seasons ) and found in that process 17 new gold outcrops, but were never able to found the source of the gold from which the king's fifth was casted. They dug around those outcrops to prevent the gold flowing down, made two maps which showed their locations and left the mountains going back to Sonora.

Somehow, the next generation of the first Peraltas, lost tracks of those gold outcroppings and started a new panning process in regards to find them. They found only two from the first expedition and another four new outcroppings. These six places were worked as gold mines in a small scale.

I don't know for what reason the third Peralta generation/group lost tracks of the mines which were worked by the second generation, maybe the maps were lost or every family of Peralta relatives kept those maps for their own use, and they were forced to use the same panning process as their ancestors. In this third process, they lost tracks of the oldest two outcrops from the first expedition which the second group found and mined, but found the four mines worked by the second generation and another four new gold outcroppings from which one was from the first Peralta group discovery. This one from the first Peraltas discovery is the LDM inclined shaft. They worked those eight spots in a larger scale.

The forth Peralta generation, after the massacre, worked clandestinelly only two of the eight mines that worked the third generation, the LDM inclined shaft and the Gonzales-Haywood mine, because they were remote and not so easy to find by luck or to be seen from a nearby path. For this the last maps made by the Peraltas are for these two different mines.

So, in those mountains remain in the virgin form another fourteen gold outcroppings which the first expedition has found, and one of them is the Dr. Thorne's gold vein.

 

[Idahodutch]

Some know the truth, some have dreams and some have audacity. Half of Waltz's clues are accurate and all the other are just fiction or distorted clues told by others.
You will never learn the truth and your thirsd for glory will be proven as your own defect. Stay calm and listen to those who have something to say that would help yourself and others in their research.

Good luck

PS
Have you ever asked yourself why Waltz didn't give the exact distance from the mine to the sharp peak? This clue would ended the mistery. Maybe he wanted to take the location to his grave.

Hello markmar.
Nice try talking fast, but no cigar 😉
I’m sure you’ll just disregard the one clue, that shows your spot to be incorrect, ….. besides not being able to see 4-peaks at all, so I guess this is the 2nd one……… Waltz got after Rhiney for not paying attention about how to find the mine. That even he himself had a tough time finding mine directly across of the hidden camp, upon return..
That statement reveals certain things about the terrain around that mine. I don’t think a 4 year old could loose track of your spot 🤓
Make all the noise you want, deny clues all you want change clues all you want, but there is one thing that is true.
Your site doesn’t fit that clue. Not even close.
Same with the 4 peaks clue.

You mock so many here, tell others how they should do things your way … and on and on.

In case you are unaware of what that is called, it’s called being an ignorant blowhard, that struggle of getting even the obvious things straight.

It’s sad and funny at the same time.
You want to trash talk, then you should expect some hard truths to come your way.
☕️

 

[markmar]

Hello markmar.
Nice try talking fast, but no cigar 😉
I’m sure you’ll just disregard the one clue, that shows your spot to be incorrect, ….. besides not being able to see 4-peaks at all, so I guess this is the 2nd one……… Waltz got after Rhiney for not paying attention about how to find the mine. That even he himself had a tough time finding mine directly across of the hidden camp, upon return..
That statement reveals certain things about the terrain around that mine. I don’t think a 4 year old could loose track of your spot 🤓
Make all the noise you want, deny clues all you want change clues all you want, but there is one thing that is true.
Your site doesn’t fit that clue. Not even close.
Same with the 4 peaks clue.

You mock so many here, tell others how they should do things your way … and on and on.

In case you are unaware of what that is called, it’s called being an ignorant blowhard, that struggle of getting even the obvious things straight.

It’s sad and funny at the same time.
You want to trash talk, then you should expect some hard truths to come your way.
☕️

I don't understand about what " my site " are you talking about.

 

[Idahodutch]

I don't understand about what " my site " are you talking about.

Yep, it sure looks like a real bummer of a blunder., just like deciding about the 4-peaks clue, too soon.
Lack of patience would be a big factor, god complex, is another.
I don’t know markmar. You change stories, clues, whatever you want.

Have a good day.

 

[markmar]

Yep, it sure looks like a real bummer of a blunder., just like deciding about the 4-peaks clue, too soon.
Lack of patience would be a big factor, god complex, is another.
I don’t know markmar. You change stories, clues, whatever you want.

Have a good day.

This thread is not about the clues which fit " our " sites, but the clues concerning LDM. I have not a specific site in these mountains which i would compare it with the LDM. The LDM is one and only one, so the clues I wrote were for this mine.
If some would believe me or not, it's their problem not mine.

Another one real critical clue for the LDM inclined shaft:

- The mine it's in a northerly direction from the tunnel/passage in the mountain and almost at the same altitude.

And another real critical clue for the same mine that was told by John Reed to Clay Worst:

- From the mine you can see the main canyon below to the right and to the left , but you can't see it directly down because of the terrain formation which blocks the view.

 

[Idahodutch]

Picking and choosing clues from various sources and leaving others , just whatever you can make fit….. well that works for you markmar.
🙌🏻😂😂

 

[Idahodutch]

Picking and choosing clues from various sources and leaving others , just whatever you can make fit….. well that works for you markmar.
🙌🏻😂😂

I will ask point blank.
1. Waltz Had a hard time finding his mine again, once on site.
Got mad at Rhiney for not paying attention.
This was for the mine directly across the canyon.
You failed to apply the clue, or decided to ignore it.

2. You dismiss the four peaks clue, but want to use clues associated with the saddle.

You could have saved a lot of people, a lot of grief, from your antics, but alas, here we are dealing with your attitudes.

Pretty simple markmar.

 

[markmar]

I will ask point blank.
1. Waltz Had a hard time finding his mine again, once on site.
Got mad at Rhiney for not paying attention.
This was for the mine directly across the canyon.
You failed to apply the clue, or decided to ignore it.

2. You dismiss the four peaks clue, but want to use clues associated with the saddle.

You could have saved a lot of people, a lot of grief, from your antics, but alas, here we are dealing with your attitudes.

Pretty simple markmar.

IMO, Waltz has never a hard time finding his mine. This is BS written by books writers. There was not a maze but a small region to deal with. And both mines are across the gulch, not canyon.
The clue about the Four Peaks which Waltz told to Holmes is true and very real. At the highest spot directly above the mines and camp, on the same mountain, you can see FP lined as one peak.

 

[Idahodutch]

exactly like Holmes manuscript.
Sorry markmar, 🤓😂
Dream on.
You really want to take it a line at a time?
I call your bluff right here and now.

Like deducer would do, I’m calling you out.
Show it.

 

[markmar]

exactly like Holmes manuscript.
Sorry markmar, 🤓😂
Dream on.
You really want to take it a line at a time?
I call your bluff right here and now.

Like deducer would do, I’m calling you out.
Show it.

What do you want, pictures or coordinates? But wait o second, you have already found it!