Colonial button

[jdsly]

Found this button over the weekend in a field a buddy and i have been detecting. When i got home and cleaned it up a little this is what it looked like:
Has a snake around center with tail in its mouth and 13 stars around edge.
Any help with id and value would be appreciated

 

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[Iron Patch]

I know what you mean but its not the only one, just the only one Known. Think how many would pass this one by & chuck it in the junk button box?

Very true there could be another, but you can say the same thing for every collectible on the face of the planet. Once one comes to light, especially if it's published, often times more surface but that is not always the case. So it's unique until someone can prove otherwise.

 

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[CRUSADER]

yes being I am not gaga over I.D.'ing my buttons, but do keep them,
I wouldn't be surprised to find out in the last 40 years That I
dug one, but because of condition, just filed it away as Button

Nor was I until after about 15 years of finding them. Then I suddenly got OCD & needed to sort them all out into categories & date etc..

 

[CurlysGold]

Banner vote is in!! Great find!!!

 

[CRUSADER]

Very true there could be another, but you can say the same thing for every collectible on the face of the planet. Once one comes to light, especially if it's published, often times more surface but that is not always the case.

I just like us all to use similar terminology, it just seems more professional, when I got my 1 of a kind coin recorded. I avoided the word unique & used the first 1 recorded or 1st one 'known'. I know its spitting hairs but it does make a difference. Because to think that only 1 of these was ever made is untrue & its highly likely that others are in collections. Only those interested in making money will avoid recording other examples which means the context (& the true picture) of the type gets lost. So we should encourage open recording, like Don does, because I can bet one of his first questions is where did you find it? He wouldn't be an expert with people hiding the facts.

 

[CRUSADER]

I just like us all to use similar terminology, it just seems more professional, when I got my 1 of a kind coin recorded. I avoided the word unique & used the first 1 recorded or 1st one 'known'. I know its spitting hairs but it does make a difference. Because to think that only 1 of these was ever made is untrue & its highly likely that others are in collections. Only those interested in making money will avoid recording other examples which means the context (& the true picture) of the type gets lost. So we should encourage open recording, like Don does, because I can bet one of his first questions is where did you find it? He wouldn't be an expert with people hiding the facts.

PS. I'm really simply referring to credibilty, as we all should realise these were produced in large numbers. I realise this is different to the surviving examples, & like IP states, as soon as a book publishs a 'Unique to date' (valueable$$$) button some will surface.

 

[recondigger]

Finds like this are the reason I metal detect I would rather find that button and relics than a barber dime. I can't imagine throwing that away as junk.

Scouts out!

 

[Iron Patch]

I just like us all to use similar terminology, it just seems more professional, when I got my 1 of a kind coin recorded. I avoided the word unique & used the first 1 recorded or 1st one 'known'. I know its spitting hairs but it does make a difference. Because to think that only 1 of these was ever made is untrue & its highly likely that others are in collections. Only those interested in making money will avoid recording other examples which means the context (& the true picture) of the type gets lost. So we should encourage open recording, like Don does, because I can bet one of his first questions is where did you find it? He wouldn't be an expert with people hiding the facts.

Coin collector's University sees them one in the same if you read this definition for Not Collectible.

NC
Not Collectable. A unique or nearly unique coin. Usually one of Sheldon's die varieties of Large Cents. At the time of Sheldon's "Penny Whimsey" (1958), for a coin to be NC, there had to be less than 3 specimens known.

Glossary of Numismatic Terms & Acronyms - Coin Collector's University - ACSB.com



I have no problem with saying only example known, and that is usually what I do say. I was just trying to get a little more attention. (why I had in in caps)

 

[jdsly]

Well...........its UNIQUE to ME

 

[Iron Patch]

Here's an even better example. (Coinfacts) I now rest my case.

	Miller #

[TD="colspan: 5"]

1786 VARIETIES (43)​

[/TD]

[TD="align: left"] Rarity [/TD]
[TD="width: 159, align: left"] Rarity [/TD]
[TD="width: 312, align: left"] Notes [/TD]

[TD="width: 60"][/TD]
[TD="width: 151"] Miller 1-A [/TD]
[TD="width: 45, align: left"]R-4+[/TD]
[TD="width: 159, align: left"]Very Scarce[/TD]
[TD="width: 312, align: left"]Mailed Bust Right[/TD]

[TD="width: 60"][/TD]
[TD="width: 151"]Miller 2.1-A[/TD]
[TD="width: 45, align: left"]R-3[/TD]
[TD="width: 159, align: left"]Scarce[/TD]
[TD="width: 312, align: left"]Mailed Bust Right[/TD]

[TD="width: 60"][/TD]
[TD="width: 151"]Miller 2.1-D.3[/TD]
[TD="width: 45, align: left"]R-7[/TD]
[TD="width: 159, align: left"] ~ 8 known [/TD]
[TD="width: 312, align: left"]Mailed Bust Right[/TD]

[TD="width: 60"][/TD]
[TD="width: 151"]Miller 2.2-D.2[/TD]
[TD="width: 45, align: left"]R-7[/TD]
[TD="width: 159, align: left"]Extremely Rare[/TD]
[TD="width: 312, align: left"]Mailed Bust Right[/TD]

[TD="width: 60"][/TD]
[TD="width: 151"] Miller 3-D.1 [/TD]
[TD="width: 45, align: left"]R-5+[/TD]
[TD="width: 159, align: left"]Rare[/TD]
[TD="width: 312, align: left"]Mailed Bust Right[/TD]

[TD="width: 60"][/TD]
[TD="width: 151"]Miller 3-D.4[/TD]
[TD="width: 45, align: left"]R-8[/TD]
[TD="width: 159, align: left"] ~ 3 known [/TD]
[TD="width: 312, align: left"]Mailed Bust Right[/TD]

[TD="width: 60"][/TD]
[TD="width: 151"]Miller 4.1-C[/TD]
[TD="width: 45, align: left"]R-9[/TD]
[TD="width: 159, align: left"]Unique[/TD]
[TD="width: 312, align: left"]Mailed Bust Left[/TD]

 

[jeff of pa]

PS. I'm really simply referring to credibilty, as we all should realise these were produced in large numbers. I realise this is different to the surviving examples, & like IP states, as soon as a book publishs a 'Unique to date' (valueable$$$) button some will surface.

True but the first one to be seen, Is the Best one to be seen

 

[CRUSADER]

True but the first one to be seen, Is the Best one to be seen

Of course, I loved it when I recorded the first ever coin of it type, it's very hard to do in the UK & I'm sure its hard to find a button like this.

 

[CRUSADER]

Well...........its UNIQUE to ME

You should be very proud, I'm sure you are, specially as you recorded it with Don & it will now be published. I love helping book writers, archaeologists & researchers, as WE ALL benefit. Big congrats.

 

[Don in SJ]

Congrats on finding a new variety of the rattlesnake button, I see the one that is of similar design was also found in South Carolina. (Don T's book).
I know Cru does not approve of using Unique the way a lot of us do, which I have no problem with, but it is justified for saying Unique when it is the only one known. Definitions of words do evolve over the eons and this is one word that has.
Whitman Encyclopedia of Colonial and Early American Coins by Q. David Bowers also uses Unique to describe only one known in its rarity scale. That sure narrows it down, rather than saying Super Very Rare. on a rarity scale....

 

[Silver Searcher]

I have been watching the thread and trying to learn a bit before I posted....Great Unique button find, no outher word to describe it really seing as it's the first. Unique is used widely over here regarding coin finds, such as this, were there is only one known/recorded....Now I can vote Banner

SS

 

[rmbutcher4]

Regardless of what you call it, I call it a great find. Congrats!

 

[Iron Patch]

Congrats on finding a new variety of the rattlesnake button, I see the one that is of similar design was also found in South Carolina. (Don T's book).
I know Cru does not approve of using Unique the way a lot of us do, which I have no problem with, but it is justified for saying Unique when it is the only one known. Definitions of words do evolve over the eons and this is one word that has.
Whitman Encyclopedia of Colonial and Ealy American Coins by Q. David Bowers also uses Unique to describe only one known in its rarity scale. That sure narrows it down, rather than saying Super Very Rare. on a rarity scale....

Here's a question for you relating to rarity. If you look at the CT chart I posted above it shows the unique coin as being a rarity 9, and not 10, so why is that? The only theory I can come up with is that one side's die was used on other coins, and to be a rarity 10 you would need two unique dies. Any idea if that is right, or if there is something else to it?

 

[Silver Searcher]

Here's a question for you relating to rarity. If you look at the CT chart I posted above it shows the unique coin as being a rarity 9, and not 10, so why is that? The only theory I can come up with is that one side's die was used on other coins, and to be a rarity 10 you would need two unique dies. Any idea if that is right, or if there is something else to it?

Sheldons rarity scale only goes to R8...which is Unique, do these scales very from coin to coin..

SS

 

[Don in SJ]

Here's a question for you relating to rarity. If you look at the CT chart I posted above it shows the unique coin as being a rarity 9, and not 10, so why is that? The only theory I can come up with is that one side's die was used on other coins, and to be a rarity 10 you would need two unique dies. Any idea if that is right, or if there is something else to it?

Understand your question, but I believe I have only seen R8 & R9 used in different rarity scales to describe only 1 known. But your questionis a good one, perhaps "Discovery Coin" if both sides were here before unknown die varieties....... We could make our own rarity scale up if you wish.

I sure would love to find any of the rattlesnake type buttons for my collection....

 

[CRUSADER]

Congrats on finding a new variety of the rattlesnake button, I see the one that is of similar design was also found in South Carolina. (Don T's book).
I know Cru does not approve of using Unique the way a lot of us do, which I have no problem with, but it is justified for saying Unique when it is the only one known. Definitions of words do evolve over the eons and this is one word that has.
Whitman Encyclopedia of Colonial and Early American Coins by Q. David Bowers also uses Unique to describe only one known in its rarity scale. That sure narrows it down, rather than saying Super Very Rare. on a rarity scale....

No problem with 'Unique to date', its more accurate than that book.

NB. used in conjunction with 1 'KNOWN'.

Anyone who says a button is Unique, needs to check the dictionary. You don't produce a button die to stamp 1 button.

 

[Iron Patch]

Understand your question, but I believe I have only seen R8 & R9 used in different rarity scales to describe only 1 known. But your questionis a good one, perhaps "Discovery Coin" if both sides were here before unknown die varieties....... We could make our own rarity scale up if you wish.

I sure would love to find any of the rattlesnake type buttons for my collection....

I thought I seen a reference to a rarity 10, but not positive. But 8 vs. 9 is the same difference, if there's only 1 why one number over the other.