Could this be a Real Higley Copper ?? Found in old

[Mrweb2017]

Found this old coin the other day in an old coin collection full of colonial coins everything in the box was real.But this one I just don't know if it's real or not it weighs 9.7 g from the research I've done Higley coppers are so rare I'm wondering if it's a fake ?

 

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[WolfmoonX]

I was waiting for the wire brush/wire wheel pics before I chimed in...im definitely no colonial coin expert, or an expert on ANY coin series...however, I do know enough to take very seriously the opinions and comments from the people who are the experts...Ddf

Your mention of wire wheel and brush made me cringe. Can you imagine having a two hundred to three hundred thousand dollar coin and within seconds, making it a five cent coin? *winces*

 

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[jeff of pa]

after approximately 300 years of handling, I don't think a few more times will change things

If you get it slabbed & they mark it with a note, Fresh hand oil stain, Fresh scratch,
I'll change my View on that coins are meant to be handled.

Not put behind glass or plastic .
The exception is if I found a Coin in a vacuum for 300 years that has finger prints from the period
of Minting


That said, Get it Checked & Slabbed.
You can always crack the case open later like I would,
if I decided to keep it.

Of course Spendable money in my hand is worth more then a 300 year old coin.
so I would sell it.

as for a wire wheel. Possibly if it heavily corroded, so I could I.D. it.

 

[Eastcoasthunter21]

Wowser! You had some of Tnets most serious "big gunners" check out your coin. Sorry to hear it's not real, but I think it's still totally rad. It was important enough of a coin to be copied, and it looks like a decent one.

Yep I read every post what a score to find
Even a copy , but disappointed as we are sometimes
It's a great find. And a great display item.
Hh gl

 

[Mrweb2017]

This is getting to be unreal. You claim you might have maybe a 200 thousand to 300 thousand dollar coin and it isn't in any kind of protective cover and you are handling it like that? A coin shop says it is real and you yourself said you know coin shops don't have knowledgeable people. But you know this one does for some reason. Why would you be getting oil from your hands on a coin that you were told was real?

FACT

ABSOLUTELY NOBODY can tell something is 100% real by pictures. IMPOSSIBLE, especially in this situation. You want more opinions when you have EXPERTS on here in colonial coins like Don and Dan verify it is a copy? Treasurenet is a place of help and a wealth of information. You will not get anyone to doubt Don that I know of. I know his background and so do many others on here.


You found out it was real. They saw it in person. So you don't need any more opinions. Get it slabbed, show us the listing for the auction and everyone will be excited to see what it goes for. But STOP handling it. Any respectable coin shop would have told you that.

Now that is NOT a worthless opinion like you thought my last one was.

Yes I have thought about how I was handling it but said to my self well, before I knew I did the same so, I said one more time won't hurt, I been taking many pictures, once it goes in a slab that's it can never touch it again so i'm savoring the moment lol what do you think about I heard that PCGS and or NGC does restoration ? would it be worth it to have this coin go through the restoration process for a higher grade or with this type of coin they may recommend not right ? I never would've thought restoration on a coin would be good but apparently they do do it to some coins .

 

[jeff of pa]

just my opinion:restoration isn't worthwhile unless there is no detail there or half the coin is clipped off

 

[filmiracl]

I'm no expert, but I'm going with a Becker copy as well... why? If you study the wear pattern on both sides of the coin, in particular specific letters and such, the axe, and the off-center strike it's nearly identical. Of course, a worn / misconfigured die would produce the same result, but I haven't seen any real Higley coppers (only Becker copies) with that pattern. But again, I'm no expert... so good luck!

 

[Rubka888]

Are you going to PCGS or NGC? When are you going to go? I can't wait to see what they say

 

[cudamark]

I've been collecting coins for about 55 years now, and would put my money on it being a cast copy. It just looks too grainy to me to be a struck coin, unless it had been in the ground for decades......in which case it would have been harshly cleaned to cause that pitted surface. i hope I'm wrong, but, I doubt I am. Keep us posted!

 

[doninbrewster]

I've been collecting coins for about 55 years now, and would put my money on it being a cast copy. It just looks too grainy to me to be a struck coin, unless it had been in the ground for decades......in which case it would have been harshly cleaned to cause that pitted surface. i hope I'm wrong, but, I doubt I am. Keep us posted!

You're part right, it is a copy, but it was made from dies produced by Peter Rosa under his company name, Becker Reproductions in the 1960's. Becker later sold off his dies and coining stuff and additional pieces were made without the name Becker on the edge. You can read about it at https://coinreplicas.com/about/peter-rosa-biography/ THE COIN IS NOT A GENUINE HIGLEY! It is a Becker piece! He can send it to PCGS, NGS, ANACS the FBI, CIA and even the KGB. It won't make a difference. Getting a bit tired seeing a copy being promoted as genuine.

 

[doninbrewster]

By the way, if anyone wants to buy one of these they are $15. You can get them at:

Higley Copper ? Broad Axe 1737 | Coin Replicas

 

[smokeythecat]

I certainly can't tell. You will most likely have to get it graded by a professional grading service. Also, the HUGE Whitman coin show is in Baltimore next weekend, but bring a bodyguard.

 

[Iron Patch]

At least the coin posted is good enough to properly ID. If very worn or corroded a person would forever wonder what they had... because in these cases a coin is basically looked at as guilty until proven innocent. (real)

I can think of at least a few questions on this.

1) If the genuine dies were used, and the coin isn't marked copy, what are the tells it's a Becker?

2) Does the Becker dies also happen to be the most common variety in the series? (I have a feeling it likely is)

3) Were all varieties of Higley coppers faked, whether struck, cast, or electrotype?


I'm guessing if a person digs a Higley there's a few types/varieties you really want to see in the dirt to have the best chance of it being the real deal.



Edit: Just seen this reading through again. Will check it out. http://numismatics.org/digitallibrary/ark:/53695/nnan47820

 

[Iron Patch]

You're part right, it is a copy, but it was made from dies produced by Peter Rosa under his company name, Becker Reproductions in the 1960's. Becker later sold off his dies and coining stuff and additional pieces were made without the name Becker on the edge. You can read about it at https://coinreplicas.com/about/peter-rosa-biography/ THE COIN IS NOT A GENUINE HIGLEY! It is a Becker piece! He can send it to PCGS, NGS, ANACS the FBI, CIA and even the KGB. It won't make a difference. Getting a bit tired seeing a copy being promoted as genuine.

It seems some people on here look at all opinions as being equal. You can have the foremost authority weighing in and some roll right over his thoughts and keep talking about the local coin dealer, or getting it graded, or sending it to the KGB. It makes no sense!

 

[CRUSADER]

At least the coin posted is good enough to properly ID. If very worn or corroded a person would forever wonder what they had... because in these cases a coin is basically looked at as guilty until proven innocent. (real)

I can think of at least a few questions on this.

1) If the genuine dies were used, and the coin isn't marked copy, what are the tells it's a Becker?

2) Does the Becker dies also happen to be the most common variety in the series? (I have a feeling it likely is)

3) Were all varieties of Higley coppers faked, whether struck, cast, or electrotype To me the coin just screams unstruck. My thoughts are it's a very clever cast or electrotype coin made up of 2 half's cleverly put together & the edge concealed. This would account for the OP's statement -''if you tap it with a pencil or something you don't hear a ding or a ting.'' If not it still looks wrong.


I'm guessing if a person digs a Higley there's a few types/varieties you really want to see in the dirt to have the best chance of it being the real deal.



Edit: Just seen this reading through again. Will check it out. ANS Digital Library: Token

See red comments above

 

[Iron Patch]

See red comments above

I think it screams at you as not being struck for two reasons. The first is the bright light is picking up all the imperfections in the coin making it look similar to what we're used to see from casting, and the 2nd, and probably the bigger one... the Higley coppers are struck from hand-cut dies which makes the lettering look sloppy, which is very similar to modern fake coins which are not done very well. I guess I could add a third point, which is the coin is worn or weakly struck, so that would also add to it looking like it's cast.

All that said, it seems like the Becker dies are either Crosby 23,24 or 25. I seen a picture of Crosby 24 which seems to be a match. So I guess my above question stands... I'd like to know how you tell the difference between a Becker unmarked copy, and Crosby 24. Is it metal composition, weight/diameter, both of those factors, or something else?

 

[unclemac]

View attachment 1461942View attachment 1461943View attachment 1461944View attachment 1461945View attachment 1461946View attachment 1461947View attachment 1461947View attachment 1461947View attachment 1461948View attachment 1461949

way way better pictures

 

[unclemac]

By the way, if anyone wants to buy one of these they are $15. You can get them at:

Higley Copper ? Broad Axe 1737 | Coin Replicas

wow...even the wear is the same

 

[doninbrewster]

I believe the Becker reproductions where made from dies, and not cast pieces. I'm no expert on die preparation, but I believe the dies were made using the Spark Erosion method where the die is made from an original coin and the copies made from this die. https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/842/ The original was Friedus reverse die C, which was used with Crosby 23,24 and 24. For a photo of this die check out. http://coinfacts.com/colonial_coins/higley_coppers/higley_coppers_by_variety.htm The "Higley" posted here was either made by Becker or the person who bought his coining stuff. If it was made by Becker it would say Becker on the edge. If made by the next guy, who knows? Once you've handled a few of the Becker pieces and studied them you can spot another one from a mile away. That's what this piece is.

 

[jadocs]

This is very interesting

 

[trdking]

This is getting to be unreal. You claim you might have maybe a 200 thousand to 300 thousand dollar coin and it isn't in any kind of protective cover and you are handling it like that? A coin shop says it is real and you yourself said you know coin shops don't have knowledgeable people. But you know this one does for some reason. Why would you be getting oil from your hands on a coin that you were told was real?

FACT

ABSOLUTELY NOBODY can tell something is 100% real by pictures. IMPOSSIBLE, especially in this situation. You want more opinions when you have EXPERTS on here in colonial coins like Don and Dan verify it is a copy? Treasurenet is a place of help and a wealth of information. You will not get anyone to doubt Don that I know of. I know his background and so do many others on here.

You found out it was real. They saw it in person. So you don't need any more opinions. Get it slabbed, show us the listing for the auction and everyone will be excited to see what it goes for. But STOP handling it. Any respectable coin shop would have told you that.

Now that is NOT a worthless opinion like you thought my last one was.

Take the coin to PCGS They will call Don and Dan for their opinion