Could this be a Real Higley Copper ?? Found in old

[Mrweb2017]

Found this old coin the other day in an old coin collection full of colonial coins everything in the box was real.But this one I just don't know if it's real or not it weighs 9.7 g from the research I've done Higley coppers are so rare I'm wondering if it's a fake ?

 

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[Iron Patch]

Take the coin to PCGS They will call Don and Dan for their opinion

That was my point earlier.... the grader would get it, and if he had any question would contact Dan, therefore making this into a big unnecessary circle.

 

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[cw0909]

thats some good info on the dies and history
on the Higley
Tnet is the 1st place i had ever heard of the coin

 

[Mrweb2017]

Take the coin to PCGS They will call Don and Dan for their opinion

Dan and Don are getting to old The riser not working too good they are wrong on this one and I'm going to prove it . 100% they've been wrong several times before although I will give it to them they have been right many many times but they've been wrong a few times . It's just lately they've been more wrong than right I guess it comes with age time to hang up the magnifying glass .

 

[Mrweb2017]

Dan was wrong not too long ago on that coin that that guy had graded that came back at $100,000 coin and Dan swear to god it was a fake .

 

[david680]

lol

 

[Mrweb2017]

Wrong

 

[Kurios1]

LOL I was going to Agree with & Like this post till you took an attitude in the 2nd Half of it
Yes it appears you are New Here, So I'll let it slide this time,
But in the Future remember you catch more Friendly responses & Helpfull members by Giving Respect.
even if you Disagree.

By the way, I'm moving this to what is it, as that is the Correct place for finding answers.

Also your title asks,
[h=2]"Could this be a Real Higley Copper ??"[/h]it does not say it is one for sure.
[h=2]I would say that invites all opinions[/h]

The voice of REASON has spoken! Well said Jeff. I agree the newbie copped an attitude midstream after he was understandably questioned about taking the coin to a coin shop to have it authenticated. If it were in my possession I'd be on the road to NGC or PCGS. I wouldn't risk shipping it.

 

[l.cutler]

Dan was wrong not too long ago on that coin that that guy had graded that came back at $100,000 coin and Dan swear to god it was a fake .

Dan Friedus isn't even on this forum. He is a respected colonial researcher and expert on Higley coppers. Mr. Friedus came up with the attribution system for identifying the die varieties of the coins. You came into this discussion suspecting the coin may be fake and the foremost authority on the series says it is. Spend your money and have it verified.

 

[CRUSADER]

I believe the Becker reproductions where made from dies, and not cast pieces. I'm no expert on die preparation, but I believe the dies were made using the Spark Erosion method where the die is made from an original coin and the copies made from this die. https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/842/ The original was Friedus reverse die C, which was used with Crosby 23,24 and 24. For a photo of this die check out. Higley Coppers by Variety The "Higley" posted here was either made by Becker or the person who bought his coining stuff. If it was made by Becker it would say Becker on the edge. If made by the next guy, who knows? Once you've handled a few of the Becker pieces and studied them you can spot another one from a mile away. That's what this piece is.

''die is made from an original coin and the copies made from this die''
The above could explain why I have an immediate reaction to the piece not looking right. Whenever you make a die from a coin the sharpness of the detail is lost making the copy look similar to cast/electrotype coins even though it's struck.
Like I've said early, in a round about way, I need no knowledge of this type of coin to spot it's wrong. Done it hundreds of times.

To the OP,
If I'm wrong & you post that massive auction sale you're hoping for, I will not only be extremely surprised but I will be the first to congratulate you & the first to say sorry. Best of luck.

 

[Iron Patch]

''die is made from an original coin and the copies made from this die''
The above could explain why I have an immediate reaction to the piece not looking right. Whenever you make a die from a coin the sharpness of the detail is lost making the copy look similar to cast/electrotype coins even though it's struck.
Like I've said early, in a round about way, I need no knowledge of this type of coin to spot it's wrong. Done it hundreds of times.

To the OP,
If I'm wrong & you post that massive auction sale you're hoping for, I will not only be extremely surprised but I will be the first to congratulate you & the first to say sorry. Best of luck.

Ok I think that helps answer my question, not having read the part about the dies being made from a coin... I thought it was the original dies.

So being made from a coin, and thinking back to the one Don sent the link to, and assuming they did not really circulate being copies, the first clear sign you have a Becker would be the die state... although I'm not sure that would be the best term being a copy, but would be for the die and the original coin used to make the die. That said, so all would look similar -- meaning worn in the same areas. Having wrote that maybe I missed some of conversation along the way because I do recall someone, I think the OP, making a comment to the link of the Becker that it looked worn in the same areas. Anyway, so now I feel more caught up to speed, and maybe dumbed it down a little for other people to get it.

 

[Iron Patch]

Dan Friedus isn't even on this forum. He is a respected colonial researcher and expert on Higley coppers. Mr. Friedus came up with the attribution system for identifying the die varieties of the coins. You came into this discussion suspecting the coin may be fake and the foremost authority on the series says it is. Spend your money and have it verified.

I think it comes down to two things.... not wanting to give up on a dream, and either being unable or unwilling to interpret all the information. I think what many people don't realize is there is only a very small percentage of people who are the true experts, they are the professional researchers who basically write the book and their word is gospel unless and until someone can prove otherwise... which can and does happen, and is always welcome, because at the end of the day it's all about the truth. The rest of us who are the 99.99999999 it's all about being able to interpret the information correctly.... and those that can't are usually the ones to throw out the usual answers... get it graded... go to the local coin shop, etc.. My point being, that it seems Dan has done the work on the Higley and is one of those elite people in the coin world, and it's a massive insult to disregard what he says, even if it is based on a picture. I know I hate being wrong, so does anyone think he'd comment on a Higley without being 1000% sure he knew what he was saying? I've been around long enough to know the higher up experts or collectors, or whatever you want to call them won't guess if there is any question about a coin... so since he was willing to call it from a picture you can be sure it's as obvious as black and white.

 

[CRUSADER]

I think it comes down to two things.... not wanting to give up on a dream, and either being unable or unwilling to interpret all the information. I think what many people don't realize is there is only a very small percentage of people who are the true experts, they are the professional researchers who basically write the book and their word is gospel unless and until someone can prove otherwise... which can and does happen, and is always welcome, because at the end of the day it's all about the truth. The rest of us who are the 99.99999999 it's all about being able to interpret the information correctly.... and those that can't are usually the ones to throw out the usual answers... get it graded... go to the local coin shop, etc.. My point being, that it seems Dan has done the work on the Higley and is one of those elite people in the coin world, and it's a massive insult to disregard what he says, even if it is based on a picture. I know I hate being wrong, so does anyone think he'd comment on a Higley without being 1000% sure he knew what he was saying? I've been around long enough to know the higher up experts or collectors, or whatever you want to call them won't guess if there is any question about a coin... so since he was willing to call it from a picture you can be sure it's as obvious as black and white.

So, can you call it from a picture?

 

[Iron Patch]

So, can you call it from a picture?

I didn't say I could call anything from a picture. There's more I don't know about these than I know.

 

[screwynewy]

MrWeb2017, what is your plan now with the coin. Are you going to have it authenticated and graded by PCGS or are you going to go on just believing the coin is real without having it authenticated? I guess it is more fun to believe you have a super rare coin than to be proven otherwise. I hope you will come back to tell us what you find out regardless if it is proven to be real or a copy.

 

[CRUSADER]

I didn't say I could call anything from a picture. There's more I don't know about these than I know.

It was a rhetorical question.

 

[Joshbiz]

MrWeb2017, that's a cool coin no matter what great find!!!!!!!!!

 

[ToastedWheatie]

Simple solution, as far as I'm concerned. Sell it to the coin dealer that authenticated it for $150,000.
He then can flip it for a quick six figure profit.
If he was right, everyone wins.
If he was wrong, Mr Web wins. The coin dealer? Well, that's his business risk.

 

[Silver Searcher]

I value their opinion I value everyone's opinion on here,but people who say this is not a genuine higley, ok, explain to me why you come to that conclusion,even if someone on here thinks it is a genuine Higley explain to me how you you come to that conclusion. I know no one can give a definitive answer as to real or not real but even if you have a 99% gut feeling what brings you to that conclusion of a yes or no , what characteristics of the coin in question brings you to your conclusion.

I would not value there opinion if they branded a coin a fake, by a picture. Clearly they are not.

SS

 

[coinman123]

The surfaces look a little odd, I am going to read the rest of the thread first to see if there are any updates though (only read page 1 so far).

 

[Iron Patch]

I would not value there opinion if they branded a coin a fake, by a picture. Clearly they are not.

SS

So you can't tell the difference between any real or fake coin from a picture?