Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

drgeorge · Jun 12, 2011

Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

Hord of counterfeit early 14th century silver Prague groschen, found today in the Zemplén mountains of Eastern Slovak Republic. These are actually copper coins gilded with silver--two small chunks of silver were found in the same hole. They're not valuable, but it was really exciting to dig!!!
Link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_groschen

Silver Searcher · Jun 12, 2011

Re: Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

:hello:

Welcome to Treasure Net :hello:

How do you know they are copper based :icon_scratch:

they show no signs of the copper leaching out, which is what you would get with coins that had been buried that long :icon_scratch:

they look Pure Silver to me :help:

Super find :headbang:

SS

freddy williams · Jun 12, 2011

Re: Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

Silver searcher is right they are not leeching like copper would being in the ground that long unless of coarse you cut one in half I would send a couple off to be tested and authenticated... Wow imagine your excitment if the test cam back and they was authentic coins....

CRUSADER · Jun 12, 2011

Re: Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

Welcome :hello:

We need details?

In the mountains? A cave? or in the ground? or in a pot or?

Are they 14th C counterfiets or more modern?

Must have been an exciting find, whatever they are :hello2:

drgeorge · Jun 12, 2011

Re: Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

Silver Searcher said:
Welcome to Treasure Net

How do you know they are copper based they show no signs of the copper leaching out, which is what you would get with coins that had been buried that long they look Pure Silver to me

Super find

SS

Most of the coins found DO have leaching--that's why I assume they're counterfeit (see pic.)! All but two pieces were dug-up in a one-square-meter area (these first two "led" us to the others!). We plan to return to the site in the near future with a more "serious" detector.
Actually we were searching for a WW2 battlefield (and found it--this was overshadowed by the coins though!!).

drgeorge · Jun 12, 2011

Re: Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

CRUSADER said:
Welcome

We need details?

In the mountains? A cave? or in the ground? or in a pot or?

Are they 14th C counterfiets or more modern?

Must have been an exciting find, whatever they are

I found these in the ground. The first two at about 4-5cm depth, the rest were at 20-25cm. The Garrett really squealed!!!!! Supposedly this was the type of coin that in the middle ages was very often counterfeited! Thanks everybody!!!

Silver Searcher · Jun 12, 2011

Re: Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

drgeorge said:
Silver Searcher said:

Welcome to Treasure Net

How do you know they are copper based they show no signs of the copper leaching out, which is what you would get with coins that had been buried that long they look Pure Silver to me

Super find

SS

Click to expand...

Most of the coins found DO have leaching--that's why I assume they're counterfeit (see pic.)! All but two pieces were dug-up in a one-square-meter area (these first two "led" us to the others!). We plan to return to the site in the near future with a more "serious" detector.
Actually we were searching for a WW2 battlefield (and found it--this was overshadowed by the coins though!!).

Are you reffering to the Black on the coins :icon_scratch:

if so, that is Silver oxide and is how most Silver coins come out of the ground. If the coins had been copper based, they would have green leeching from them. A simple way to test them, is apply a little bleach to one of the coins, if it goes black..they are silver, the bleach will do no harm :icon_thumleft:

SS

CRUSADER · Jun 12, 2011

Re: Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

Silver Searcher said:
drgeorge said:

Silver Searcher said:

Welcome to Treasure Net

How do you know they are copper based they show no signs of the copper leaching out, which is what you would get with coins that had been buried that long they look Pure Silver to me

Super find

SS

Click to expand...

Most of the coins found DO have leaching--that's why I assume they're counterfeit (see pic.)! All but two pieces were dug-up in a one-square-meter area (these first two "led" us to the others!). We plan to return to the site in the near future with a more "serious" detector.
Actually we were searching for a WW2 battlefield (and found it--this was overshadowed by the coins though!!).

Click to expand...

Are you reffering to the Black on the coins if so, that is Silver oxide and is how most Silver coins come out of the ground. If the coins had been copper based, they would have green leeching from them. A simple way to test them, is apply a little bleach to one of the coins, if it goes black..they are silver, the bleach will do no harm

SS

But being plated silver they would go black, so still might be counterfiet

umrgolf · Jun 12, 2011

Re: Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

Wow, great find.. They sure look real from here, but I've been wrong before

Silver Searcher · Jun 12, 2011

Re: Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

CRUSADER said:
Silver Searcher said:

drgeorge said:

Silver Searcher said:

Welcome to Treasure Net

How do you know they are copper based they show no signs of the copper leaching out, which is what you would get with coins that had been buried that long they look Pure Silver to me

Super find

SS

Click to expand...

Most of the coins found DO have leaching--that's why I assume they're counterfeit (see pic.)! All but two pieces were dug-up in a one-square-meter area (these first two "led" us to the others!). We plan to return to the site in the near future with a more "serious" detector.
Actually we were searching for a WW2 battlefield (and found it--this was overshadowed by the coins though!!).

Click to expand...

Are you reffering to the Black on the coins if so, that is Silver oxide and is how most Silver coins come out of the ground. If the coins had been copper based, they would have green leeching from them. A simple way to test them, is apply a little bleach to one of the coins, if it goes black..they are silver, the bleach will do no harm

SS

Click to expand...

But being plated silver they would go black, so still might be counterfiet

Yes that's true :P but you don't get the same result, the colour is totally different, and if these coins haven't been cleaned, which they look not to have been, the green core would have been through by now.

SS

CRUSADER · Jun 12, 2011

Re: Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

Silver Searcher said:
CRUSADER said:

Silver Searcher said:

drgeorge said:

Silver Searcher said:

Welcome to Treasure Net

How do you know they are copper based they show no signs of the copper leaching out, which is what you would get with coins that had been buried that long they look Pure Silver to me

Super find

SS

Click to expand...

Most of the coins found DO have leaching--that's why I assume they're counterfeit (see pic.)! All but two pieces were dug-up in a one-square-meter area (these first two "led" us to the others!). We plan to return to the site in the near future with a more "serious" detector.
Actually we were searching for a WW2 battlefield (and found it--this was overshadowed by the coins though!!).

Click to expand...

Are you reffering to the Black on the coins if so, that is Silver oxide and is how most Silver coins come out of the ground. If the coins had been copper based, they would have green leeching from them. A simple way to test them, is apply a little bleach to one of the coins, if it goes black..they are silver, the bleach will do no harm

SS

Click to expand...

But being plated silver they would go black, so still might be counterfiet

Click to expand...

Yes that's true :P but you don't get the same result, the colour is totally different, and if these coins haven't been cleaned, which they look not to have been, the green core would have been through by now.

SS

They definately look the best plated coins (if thats what they are), I've seen. Maybe the dry?? soil conditions or :dontknow:

Don't have any experience of these, but if plated, they used plenty of silver. Maybe there is something obivious we are missing, because we don't find either the real ones or the counterfiet :icon_scratch:

I totally agree, we would expect much more green :thumbsup:

timekiller · Jun 12, 2011

Re: Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

Maybe I'm missing something. :icon_scratch:

But if you know the weight of them why not weigh them and see first.Copper does not weigh as much as silver first big clue I would think. :wink:

If the size is correct then see no problem.Your own link tells how much they should weigh.
Take Care,
Pete, :hello:

nuggy · Jun 12, 2011

Re: Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

Interesting - I see some of these coins show signs of ordinary circulation wear, but others are really fine condition - this leads me to believe two things; copper should be showing through the worn spots if they were fakes and counterfeit coins in a hoard like this should all be fairly uniform as it would be unlikely to remove only fakes from use at various stages of wear? Nuggy

MKnTenn · Jun 12, 2011

Re: Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

Counterfeit, but I bet it was exciting to dig! I think they look great. To me, I would be happy to own them even though they are counterfeit. Any idea when they were made?

Jerry1NJ · Jun 12, 2011

Re: Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

Great finds!!! :icon_thumright:

Generic_Lad · Jun 12, 2011

Re: Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

Great finds even if they are period counterfeits. Best counterfeits I've seen come out of the ground :icon_thumright:

nice workmanship on them.

Silver Searcher · Jun 13, 2011

Re: Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

MKnTenn said:
Counterfeit, but I bet it was exciting to dig! I think they look great. To me, I would be happy to own them even though they are counterfeit. Any idea when they were made?

On what do you base your ridiculous assumption on...the picture ::)

do you actually no what Silver Coins that old look like

SS

mr_larry · Jun 13, 2011

Re: Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

I'm with everyone else on this: these coins look like solid silver. Black on silver is common even for coins that have only been in the ground 30-40 years. The absence of any green patina would lead me to believe there is no copper in them.

I would bring them to a coin expert. If you cannot find a coin expert and one of the coins is beat up pretty badly you could always cut a small piece off of one and check the consistency of the metal throughout the coin as a last resort.

Please keep us posted. It is a very interesting find. I hope they are real. If they are, then I'll nominate you for the banner!!!

VegasTattoo · Jun 13, 2011

Re: Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

something seems a little fishy about this... And I would not jump to the conclusion that they are counterfeit... lots of ways to determine if they are or are not... Plus if they are period counterfeits then they are still super cool in my book

drgeorge · Jun 13, 2011

Re: Counterfeit 14th century Bohemian "silver"

Okay everybody! Thanks for all the posts and constructive criticism!!!
After taking a closer look at some of the coins, I'm leaning toward the non-counterfeit side. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I scratched a couple of them while anxiously excavating--there is no underlying copper where scratched!!!!! Ergo....... :headbang:

Off they go to a very secure place :thumbsup: