CS Tongue Buckle? Yes it is!! SOLVED

72cheyenne · Mar 17, 2010

Ok. I am posting this for a friend of mine. Sorry for the quality of the pictures as all I had with me was my cell phone. Is this piece a legit tongue to a tongue and wreath style buckle. If so, I didn't realize that they were so small. Any help would be appreciated on this one. I'm anxious to hear what the experts have to say. Found in western Arkansas.

Bigcypresshunter · Mar 17, 2010

Re: CS Tongue Buckle??

I dont know but here are some sword belt examples. Nice find. Note the asking prices. http://www.armyoftennesseerelics.com/Confederate_Buckles.html

diggummup · Mar 17, 2010

Re: CS Tongue Buckle??

I'm no expert and I have no idea about the size either but I did find a couple examples with that style of lettering. The Freedom or Death original was dug in Arkansas and the other example comes from the Maryland-Steuart Collection, Virginia Historical Society-

72cheyenne · Mar 17, 2010

Re: CS Tongue Buckle??

bigcypresshunter said:
I dont know but here are some sword belt examples. Nice find. Note the asking prices. http://www.armyoftennesseerelics.com/Confederate_Buckles.html

diggummup said:
I'm no expert and I have no idea about the size either but I did find a couple examples with that style of lettering. The Freedom or Death original was dug in Arkansas and the other example comes from the Maryland-Steuart Collection, Virginia Historical Society-

Thanks again guys. I should have added in my post above that I do remember seeing the CS tongue and wreath buckle on a few websites. The size of this thing is what really got me wondering. I always pictured them much bigger, but as you can see in my pic it is about the size of a half dollar, maybe a tad larger. :icon_scratch:

I have never had the opportunity of digging CW era relics yet, but could be getting the chance soon. This piece has really got my blood pumping a bit because it came from my area of Arkansas.

BuckleBoy · Mar 17, 2010

Re: CS Tongue Buckle??

That looks like a good one. :thumbsup:

IronSpike · Mar 17, 2010

Re: CS Tongue Buckle??

Nice relic and ID :icon_thumright:

Now go find the 'Freedom or Death' portion of the buckle :icon_thumright:

DirtyMike · Mar 17, 2010

Re: CS Tongue Buckle??

Nice toung!

kuger · Mar 17, 2010

Re: CS Tongue Buckle??

Yes,they are small and I would say %99 positive thats legit.Did he dig it?I cant find a ruler but most range 2"-3". :thumbsup:

According to Kerksis,that one is about 1.80x3.00"....whole buckle

vayank54 · Mar 17, 2010

Re: CS Tongue Buckle??

Looks good to me. It would be best to have several different people who know civil war plates look at it in person though.

kuger · Mar 17, 2010

Re: CS Tongue Buckle??

As said they are small.Second if he dug it which it appears it was,why would somebody repro it,break it and bury it?As it is is has no huge monetary value.

Breezie · Mar 17, 2010

Re: CS Tongue Buckle??

Nah, it's a fake, and it belongs to my uncle, Charlie Smith; he's been looking for his buckle! Mail it to me. LOL. :laughing7:

Seriously, Chey, super find, and looks like the real deal to me. Breezie

kuger · Mar 17, 2010

Re: CS Tongue Buckle??

Breezie said:
Nah, it's a fake, and it belongs to my uncle, Charlie Smith; he's been looking for his buckle! LOL. Seriously, Chey, super find, and looks like the real deal to me. Breezie

Those are my initials too!!! :laughing7:

vayank54 · Mar 17, 2010

Re: CS Tongue Buckle??

Breezie said:
Nah, it's a fake, and it belongs to my uncle, Charlie Smith; he's been looking for his buckle! Mail it to me. LOL. Seriously, Chey, super find, and looks like the real deal to me. Breezie

Good one. If I'm not mistaken there was the loop to one of those dug last year and it was on the cover of American Digger. If not then just more evidence that I'm getting senile.

72cheyenne · Mar 17, 2010

Re: CS Tongue Buckle??

Thank for all the replies and ID crew. I was pretty sure this was going to be what I thought it was, and you guys and gals helped confirm that. Being that it was the first one I had seen and held in person I had that eerie feeling of inexperience creep over me and knew that it warranted a call to the experts. This piece was dug, in a known CW area. I hope that my friend, or even the both of us are able to go back and scour the yard and surrounding yards looking for the missing pieces. I know this is a great find and relic save just as it is, but to recover the rest of it would be absolutely insane, especially if the wreath part was the "Freedom or Death" type!!

Marking this as solved.

72cheyenne · Mar 18, 2010

plehbah said:
I am not sure if that is the tongue to the famous "freedom or die" wreaths, but if it is that is one hell of a tongue.

The serifs in the middle of the letters is throwing me. Is this a Western theater manufactured variant of buckle?

I don't know for sure either plehbah, but I plan on getting this piece back in hand and taking some much better pictures and measurements of it. I will probably send some pics to several CW plate guys and see if they can ID the variant. It really would be cool if it was a design exclusive to the Western theater. Of course if we could find the rest of the buckle it really would take this piece to the next level.

Any suggestions on who I might send pics too to get more opinions on a possible variant?

kuger · Mar 18, 2010

72cheyenne said:
plehbah said:

I am not sure if that is the tongue to the famous "freedom or die" wreaths, but if it is that is one hell of a tongue.

The serifs in the middle of the letters is throwing me. Is this a Western theater manufactured variant of buckle?

Click to expand...

I don't know for sure either plehbah, but I plan on getting this piece back in hand and taking some much better pictures and measurements of it. I will probably send some pics to several CW plate guys and see if they can ID the variant. It really would be cool if it was a design exclusive to the Western theater. Of course if we could find the rest of the buckle it really would take this piece to the next level.

Any suggestions on who I might send pics too to get more opinions on a possible variant?

Its in Kerksis' book.There are several variats,but I dont have the book in front of me at the moment.I looked it up last night to give you the measurements I did

Newt · Mar 18, 2010

From what I remember, that would be a left hand buckle. Several were big $,$$$ even broke.
Good luck!
Newt

kyphote · Mar 18, 2010

Mullinax identified the Freedom or Death plate to have an "air vent" above the letters "CS" (this would appear as a small patched hole on the disc). Right now the dirt on your plate is concealing what may or may not be there. Might try a gentle brushing. In Mullinax's book, "Confederate Belt Buckles & Plates," the Freedom or Death plate is rated a 10+ on the rarity scale. Can't imagine what a fully intact specimen would be worth.