Cynics, anyone?

[ivan salis]

ot one serious question --how do you "justify" your existance ?--- how did you come to exist? your folks had you and where did they come from-- and so on back down the line --sooner or later one comes to the point of origin --one has to logically -- now how did things "begin"? whats your explanation of how "creation" occured? -- evolution--well to evolve things need something to evolve from so we must go even farther back -to the start of life its self -- ah chemicals "made" life --fine where did the chemicals come from? you see at one point "something" had to come from nothing * the "creation" moment -- that is something niether mankind or nature as we know it can do --make something from nothing --oh yes we can alter known matter to "adapt" or via nature it can evolve to suit its surroundings to survive

but to make "matter" or existance from nothing --nope can not do it --that requires a "creator" who for lack of a better name most call "god" -- god as such is known by many names and types because mere humans can not understand such a complex thing easily

 

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[DigginThePast]

 

[Old Town]

ot one serious question --how do you "justify" your existance ?--- how did you come to exist? your folks had you and where did they come from-- and so on back down the line --sooner or later one comes to the point of origin --one has to logically -- now how did things "begin"? whats your explanation of how "creation" occured? -- evolution--well to evolve things need something to evolve from so we must go even farther back -to the start of life its self -- ah chemicals "made" life --fine where did the chemicals come from? you see at one point "something" had to come from nothing * the "creation" moment -- that is something niether mankind or nature as we know it can do --make something from nothing --oh yes we can alter known matter to "adapt" or via nature it can evolve to suit its surroundings to survive

but to make "matter" or existance from nothing --nope can not do it --that requires a "creator" who for lack of a better name most call "god" -- god as such is known by many names and types because mere humans can not understand such a complex thing easily

Ivan, you haven't been paying attention. As said by me a million times I don't think or worry about such things. I leave that to guys like you. It does not concern me and never has. Remember, I'll say this again, you have been trained or conditioned to think as you do. I've not been brainwashed in a similar manner.

OT

 

[spartacus53]

ot one serious question --how do you "justify" your existance ?

One easy and serious answer... Alcohol....

 

[Old Town]

Old Town, If we were at a bar, Id buy you a drink.

It does not surprise me that so few people feel as I do. What surprises me is the evangelical intolerance of most religious followers. They have to preach to me and ask me questions like they just discovered the way and must drag me through the passageway with them. I would never ask anyone else to come with me in my lifestyle. Would not occur to me. But the true believers have to somehow reinforce their own superstition by trying to make me look bad. Again, how totally unchristian.

OT (drinks on me)

 

[ivan salis]

no not forcing you to my way of thought --

I was just asking 2 valid questions I feel that are worthy of serious reply --

#1 you say you do not "believe in god" or things that can not be proven to exist by current science -- i just pointed out about 150 years ago or so that radio waves existed before we had radio's and televisions--- since the bulk of people had never "seen or understood the science of them did they "exist" ?---of course they "existed" they were just "unknown" before folks "saw" them on a steady basis----- today no one in their right mind would say radio waves do not exist but 150 years ago no one would have said they existed.---(times change and science advances) it was just a "unknown" as of yet bit of science , that mankind finally caught on to.--- what else do we currently not know of these days that say 150 years from know will be common knowledge??

#2 when one speaks of god --as to wiether or not "GOD" exist -- one has to explain how things came to be to validate their point of veiw if they wish to say -- GOD does not exist

 

[Old Town]

Ivan, you still don't get it. I don't give a damn about radio waves.

OT

 

[ivan salis]

would you say radio waves existed 150 years ago ? * before the age of radios and televisions made them "common knowledge"-- after all you can not see them --you can not hear them "in the air" (until they are recived and played ) -- you can not feel them -- you can not touch them ---you can not taste them --you can not smell them ---so how do you "know" they exist with your basic senses?

I am just saying that there can be things (like say radio waves - that 150 years agp most folks would say could not and did not exist --that do in fact actually exist) but that current science has not yet "discovered"

THIS IS MY POINT -- theres a lot of learning yet to be done -- the feeble science of mankind still has a long long way to go and much yet to "discover"

 

[Old Town]

How about them Dolphins? New England and pretty boy Brady come on down Sunday.

OT

 

[ivan salis]

ok you just dodge questions and change the subject when you can not "win" the debate

(since my grandfather warned me long ago about trying to talk sense with -- question dodgers and subject changers -- you're never going to get anywhere with those type of folks he said --since they refuse to listen to reason --so do not waste your time son -- good advice i must admit--i will go with the subject change as well)

so you think the fish got a chance against new england ?

watching jacksonville play really was painful i must admit

 

[bill-USA]

OT, plant me on the Faith side. I'm a believer! But you knew that.

 

[Old Town]

OT, plant me on the Faith side. I'm a believer! But you knew that.

Nothing wrong with that, Bill. At least you ain't mixing radio waves and scripture with the big bang theory and boring me to death.

OT

 

[ivan salis]

ot i justed used radio waves (as a exsample) to show how 150 years ago --as far as people knew thru their "current at the time science" they did not exist -- because they had no way of knowing about them thru their basic senses---- only once more modern "science" made them "real" did people understand about them and understand that they do indeed in fact exist ---

my whole point that I was driving at is what else might we be currently "unknowing" of due to it not yet being discovered by "modern" science -- can you not admit the possibility of as of yet undiscovered things by modern science ?--or do you really think that mankind has found all that there is to know about?

I am of the school that there is a lot yet to learn out there and only as science moves forward will we learn how much more is really out there than what we currently "know" about --

sorry if what I honestly believe to be a valid statement / question --"bores" you--but hey you opened the door , do not ask questions if you really do not want to get answers and counter questions in return.

 

[ivan salis]

remember everyone causes happiness -- some when they greet and chat with you , others by saying good bye as they leave.

 

[diggemall]

OT;

20+ years ago I would have stood shoulder - to - shoulder with you and vigorously defended the "non-believers" encampment against all takers............

However, in the ensuing years, I have personally experienced sufficient events as to have transitioned me from an "OT" perspective, to more of a "Frankn" perspective......

Having stood firmly in the Skeptics camp for a good number of years, I can appreciate and even support those that hold this viewpoint. I just can't embrace it as my own anymore.

Diggem'

 

[GPURS]

OT,,, You seem like a very sad and lonely person. When a guy has to try as hard as you do to convince others how well they are doing, it usually causes me to recoil. This "most interesting man in the world" act wears thin pretty quick. Tends to make be think more of some off beat kid in his parents basement working on the last crumbs of a quarter bag.........
Funny how a guy as popular as you, with so many folks demanding your time, has time to banter and insult all the little gullible folks here on TNET..

 

[cheese]

Thing is... you can't expect to post a topic like this and not get the kind of responses you're getting. It was known going in, as the original post was being composed, what kind of replies and discussion would ensue. Then you sit back and insult the attempts to "drag you through the gates" and all the other stuff you considers to be simpletons' chatter. I can only suppose this was posted for your entertainment.

I already see the "you're not acting like a Christian" response. Here's something to ponder: Christians aren't perfect, never claimed to be, never on earth will be, but we try. Just like anyone else who attempts to achieve a lifelong goal, there are times when the sights get skewed and the mind drifts to other objectives. We are not perfect, so other than presenting us with guidance so we can hopefully correct our course of action, it does no good to tell us we aren't acting like Christians. Yes we are. Christians are just sinners. The only thing that we have that sets us apart is forgiveness. Sometimes we may not act like you think a Christian should, but that's your perspective. When they try to "drag you through the gate", they are actually trying to help you, but many don't know how or have the social skills to do it without making it seem like they're "dragging you through the gates". Sometimes that's a hindrance more than a help, but hey, they're trying and the intent is all good.

Glad you're doing well and having fun with your boat making, ladies, and alcohol. I love my wife, work with my hands, and we make a hobby of wine-making, so I can agree with your sentiment. It makes for a fine life and I wouldn't trade it.

 

[Old Town]

Mish hunter: I read your post. You're going to a hot place when you are done. Straight down. LOL

OT

 

[Old Town]

Ivan: Thank you for the radio wave update. I can't get enough Marconi.

 

[Old Town]

cheese: Thank you for the church service and by extension making my point about evangelical religious types. I could not have done a better job.