Dowsing.....I need to know.

[Milkdrops]

Hi people.

I kinda thought this may have belonged in the skeptics part but I figured I may be waiting for a long time before an answer seeing as it isnt used much.

I have never tried dowsing but I have been interested in finding out about it. I have wondered Is it actually real or is it nothing more than just guessing only with 2 sticks in your hand? I have read about experiments done in Germany, testing some dowsers claims. Seems they ALL were not able to find something they claimed they could (some type of watermains underground).

I'm not really skeptical i'm just kinda in between what to think regarding it. I dont know if its real or if it isnt and to be honest after looking at scientific experiments conducted under controlled conditions and the lack of accuracy 99% of the dowsers had it would seem my faith that its real may be veering towards the skeptical side. Please tell me your view on if its genuine perhaps with any stories you may have about its real Authenticity. Thanks.

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

hi one thing for certain, swr does nOT know. Especially read the last line.

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Open-minded research

I am a biologist, rather than a parapsychologist. I am convinced there is much we do not understand about living organisms. That is why I believe it is important to investigate phenomena such as the sense of being stared at and apparent telepathy in animals: we could learn more about animal nature and human nature by doing so. If forms of the sixth sense really exist, they are likely to have evolved in relation to biological needs, and to be widespread in the animal kingdom. To accept their existence would not involve the abandonment of science and reason, and the collapse of civilization as we know it; rather it would extend the scope of science and of evolutionary understanding.

By contrast, Marks claims that "a normal or ‘N’-theory interpretation (NIE) has proved to be a perfectly adequate explanation making any form of paranormal or ‘P’-theory interpretation (PIE) redundant or superfluous". But it is not enough merely to suggest an "NIE interpretation": such hypotheses need testing, and the ones Marks proposed have been refuted by the data. He is himself a good example of the "powerful effect of belief and selective attention".

Like Marks, I am a sceptic, but of a different kind. His scepticism is directed towards anything he regards as "paranormal", taking as normal that which lies within the limits of current scientific understanding. My scepticism is directed towards the assumption that we know enough to proclaim what is possible and what is not.

Tropical Tramp

 

[aarthrj3811]

http://www.scientificexploration.org/jse/articles/betz/3.html
http://www.scientificexploration.org/jse/articles/betz/10.html#sinai
OK Milkdrops.....These are some long boring reports.....This was a long test....Read and tell us what you think...Art

 

[xupz]

Hi people.

I kinda thought this may have belonged in the skeptics part but I figured I may be waiting for a long time before an answer seeing as it isnt used much.

I have never tried dowsing but I have been interested in finding out about it. I have wondered Is it actually real or is it nothing more than just guessing only with 2 sticks in your hand? I have read about experiments done in Germany, testing some dowsers claims. Seems they ALL were not able to find something they claimed they could (some type of watermains underground).

I'm not really skeptical i'm just kinda in between what to think regarding it. I dont know if its real or if it isnt and to be honest after looking at scientific experiments conducted under controlled conditions and the lack of accuracy 99% of the dowsers had it would seem my faith that its real may be veering towards the skeptical side. Please tell me your view on if its genuine perhaps with any stories you may have about its real Authenticity. Thanks.

I think SWR is right. If you take the time to read through the few studies that do exist and see that hundreds of dowsers have all failed to perform significantly better than random and then think about the amount of time in their lives they wasted on a pursuit that isn't even proven by any of the dowsers, you'll get the point. They'll talk to you and try to convince you using the ideomotor response, or how they "believe" it works with infectious enthusiasm.

To be completely honest with you, I'm as practical a person you will ever meet. You have to realize time is a declining balance in life. You'll never get any of it back so where you choose to invest it is the most important thing you can do. Nothing wrong with looking into dowsing to get a feel if it works or not. As a skeptic myself, I've yet to see it ever proved, the only people who have are dowsers who conveniently proved it to themselves. What does that say? They can't even tell you "how" it supposedly works let alone show any results. Some of them have wasted so much of their lives on something they "believe" works, but can't show it or explain it, and they definitely don't have the treasures to back their claims up.

Anyway, the point is wasting your time learning to do something which isn't even proven is a huge mistake. If you want coins, buy a metal detector. If you want gold, buy a metal detector. Hell, take the time you save wasted walking around with some retarded rods, learn electrical engineering, and build your own metal detector. I'm not sure what your goal is in dowsing, but I have no doubt there are better ways to achieve it. Example:

The effort it takes to dowse say gold coins like in Art's test is 100% moot. Why? Because a $30.00 harbor freight detector can do the job better, 100% correct, and in 1/100th of the time. $30.00 Harbor Freight Detector performs better and faster than any dowser with 20 years wasted experience.

The end.

 

[Jeffro]

Try it out, see for yourself. Look it up in your local library and see how to make different kinds of rods, etc. what to do, etc. Fiddle around and have fun.

But when someone offers to sell you some gizmo for anything more than 10 bucks, turn the other way and run like heck!

 

[Dodad]

I have never seen anyone attempt it but my Father now sixty-six years old has told me that when he was a boy his Grandfather would have him cut a Y from a peach tree and then the old geezer would grab the ends and would witch for water. My Greatgrandfather was blind and my Father said when the peach limb would start to point to the ground he would tell them to dig in that spot and according to my Father and my Grandmother he always found water. I am forty and never got to meet my Greatgrandfather and I have never tried this but apparently my Father and Grandmother believed in his ability to find water. I know it sounds stupid but I have never known my Father to embellish the truth. The one time I questioned him on one of his stories (Not related to Dowsing) I did some public record research and found his story to be true. I have never questioned his word again. My Grandmother showed me how my Greatgrandfather held the dowsing limb, but I have never needed to try it. I have always just depended on the tap the city provides. I do believe in keeping an open mind about it. I also believe that since science says that we use only ten percent of our brains potential that there is ninety percent that we do not fully understand. Who knows what mankind is actually capable of. I also do not believe that we all use the same ten percent of our brains this I believe is what makes us so unique from one another.

 

[dowser 501]

Before you you take XUPZ for gospel, please remember that he is the most biased sceptic on the internet at this time, as a failed dowser. We use to have others who also dripped poison over the past 10-12 years but they have dropped by the wayside. It is often suspected that they are all the same person , who changes his calling card when it gets too hot for him.My advice is to check out both sides re advice in moderation. I was lucky that it was a good day for dowsing in 1985 when I picked up a pair of dowsing rods. You may find that it is not for you. Two coat hangers and a little tuition should satisfy your curiousity. af1733 is sarcastic and could be the same guy, and swr is in between. Max

 

[Jean310]

Before you you take XUPZ for gospel, please remember that he is the most biased sceptic on the internet at this time, as a failed dowser. We use to have others who also dripped poison over the past 10-12 years but they have dropped by the wayside. It is often suspected that they are all the same person , who changes his calling card when it gets too hot for him.My advice is to check out both sides re advice in moderation. I was lucky that it was a good day for dowsing in 1985 when I picked up a pair of dowsing rods. You may find that it is not for you. Two coat hangers and a little tuition should satisfy your curiousity. af1733 is sarcastic and could be the same guy, and swr is in between. Max

Whooooo eeeeeee. ::::look of shock:::: What an idea, Max. All the skeptics of dowsing (apparently for the last 10-12 years) are all the same person using different names and handles. Seems a lot of effort to go to for one person. I wonder if there isn't a corollary here? Do you suppose paranoia breeds schizophrenia, or might it be the other way around?

 

[xupz]

Max is just mad because a $30 detector from Harbor Freight performs 100% correctly in any double blind setup like Art's without having wasted decades refining your "dowsing" to find no treasure.

 

[aarthrj3811]

The effort it takes to dowse say gold coins like in Art's test is 100% moot. Why? Because a $30.00 harbor freight detector can do the job better, 100% correct, and in 1/100th of the time. $30.00 Harbor Freight Detector performs better and faster than any dowser with 20 years wasted experience.

Right xupz....Now bury the coin 1 foot deep..Whole different story....SWR is from Florida...He is right about finding water there...Stick a Hat Pin in the ground in Florida and alas...you have running water. Little harder to locate water in the rest of the world.....Art

 

[Milkdrops]

Thanks for all your replies. Seems there still is conflict with some individuals weither its genuine or not lol.

To most of you that agree dowsing is real: Is the reason often certain nature related things can be found is due to earthly forces or energies? and NOT any form of paranormal powers or psychic ability?

Your views please.

 

[aarthrj3811]

To most of you that agree dowsing is real: Is the reason often certain nature related things can be found is due to earthly forces or energies? and NOT any form of paranormal powers or psychic ability?

I can not speak for all Dowsers. With my experiments and years of locating unknown objects I know that in my dowsing I use these earthly forces or energies....Art

 

[Milkdrops]

so its more to do with perhaps biological pully forces possibly? hard to explain really but NOTHING to do with psychic paranormal type stuff?!?!

 

[aarthrj3811]

Very hard to explain...I know how to find these signals or whatever they are. When my foot makes contact with this signal the rods will cross. The question is ...Does the body react to this signal and cause the rods to cross? Is there some kind of electrical thing that happens when the foot is on the signal? Is it a trained response by the mind when I step on a signal? Or all of the above....I know the signals are there and the rest is just theroy. It makes no difference to me just how it works as long as it does.

How do I know the signals are there....I have done experiments that prove it is there and followed 1000's of these signals to the source...Art

 

[xupz]

How do I know the signals are there....I have done experiments that prove it is there and followed 1000's of these signals to the source...Art

For them to be called "signals" implies they carry information. Also, you've never proven anything because these "signals" you claim exist can't be measured by any high tech electronic equipment except your foot, which doesn't qualify as proof. Your concept of what it takes to "prove" something doesn't exist.

Besides, those "signals" are probably just athlete's foot

 

[aarthrj3811]

never proven anything because these "signals" you claim exist can't be measured by any high tech electronic equipment

you see xupz....I don't know if there are any high tech electronic equipment that can measure these signals. You as an odds guesser do not know that either. If you had bothered to read the information on this forum you would know that I have used a simple device to measure these signals and have given detailed information on how the device is made and used.. ...Art

 

[Jeffro]

Wait a minute..... hold on..... I'm sensing something..... It's coming to me now.... Milkdrops is someone on this forum under another name.....

There you have it, proof positive that dowsing works. That came from out of nowhere, believe it or not! It was just this weird feeling eminating from my toes and working its way up through my legs, groin, stomach, kidneys (I think, could be wrong here) finally rumbling up my trachea and into my brain. Kinda like a pale greenish blue glow, only more hollow, ya know?

Strangest thing....

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[=xupz link=topic= Why? Because a $30.00 harbor freight detector can do the job better, 100% correct, and in 1/100th of the time. $30.00 Harbor Freight Detector performs better and faster than any dowser with 20 years wasted experience.
**************

Yep, just as my $150 statistic calculator eliminates a need for a statistician.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Open-minded research

I am a biologist, rather than a parapsychologist. I am convinced there is much we do not understand about living organisms. That is why I believe it is important to investigate phenomena such as the sense of being stared at and apparent telepathy in animals: we could learn more about animal nature and human nature by doing so. If forms of the sixth sense really exist, they are likely to have evolved in relation to biological needs, and to be widespread in the animal kingdom. To accept their existence would not involve the abandonment of science and reason, and the collapse of civilization as we know it; rather it would extend the scope of science and of evolutionary understanding.

By contrast, Marks claims that "a normal or ‘N’-theory interpretation (NIE) has proved to be a perfectly adequate explanation making any form of paranormal or ‘P’-theory interpretation (PIE) redundant or superfluous". But it is not enough merely to suggest an "NIE interpretation": such hypotheses need testing, and the ones Marks proposed have been refuted by the data. He is himself a good example of the "powerful effect of belief and selective attention".

Like Marks, I am a sceptic, but of a different kind. His scepticism is directed towards anything he regards as "paranormal", taking as normal that which lies within the limits of current scientific understanding. My scepticism is directed towards the assumption that we know enough to proclaim what is possible and what is not.

Tropical Tramp

 

[dowser 501]

Milkdrops errr Sam, youve curdled into sour cream. Max

 

[Milkdrops]

Whats the deal here do some of you think i'm someone else called Sam?!?!?