Dutchman Ore

[coazon de oro]

Homar,

Im going to have to disagree with you. A couple of those samples look like they could be considered "Rose colored". (In the picture that has several samples).

Im not a miner at all, but I have read that quartz that came out of the ground "pink colored" has been known to change color to white when exposed to the sun. I believe I also read that the matchbox had a "pinkish tint" to it when it was made, but has since turned white. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but it's what I was told.

Just my opinion.

Thanks
Travis

Howdy Travis,

I had never heard of this before, but then I am hard of hearing due to a pipeline explosion. I can't even hear a rattlesnake, I tell my sons or daughter to point to where the buzzing is coming form in the tall grass, so that I can spot them before grabbing them.

I have seen pictures of rose quartz posted before, but then maybe they were fresh samples?

Hopefully some one can shed more light on the rose quartz, and we'll see if it turns white.

Homar

 

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[Springfield]

....I have seen pictures of rose quartz posted before, but then maybe they were fresh samples?

Hopefully some one can shed more light on the rose quartz, and we'll see if it turns white.

Homar

Rose quartz will definitely fade to a clear quartz if exposed to the sun for enough time - how much and how long I don't know. We used to sell all kinds of beautiful mineral and ore samples to Benji's Rock Shop in Ouray, CO that we retrieved from the Idarado Mine in 1974, including rose quartz. Benji told us to keep the rose quartz samples in our lunch box and out of the light.

By the way, I saw vein material in that mine that produced picture rock every bit as rich, or richer, than the matchbox ore. I also saw similar samples that came out of the Smuggler, Sunnyside and Camp Bird mines in the Silverton/Telluride/Ouray district. The old timers used to say, "You shoulda seen what they were gettin' in the old days." I'm not downplaying the matchbox samples. It's damned good ore, to be sure, and rare, but certainly not unprecedented. Ask anyone who's ever worked in a gold mine. Below are a couple pics - from the Sunnyside and elsewhere.

People are fooling themselves if they think they can analyze a piece of ore and determine exactly where it was mined. There are way too many variables involved with the creation of minerals. You might be able to match it to another sample, but you need to have a second independent sample from a specifically known site, and that's a tall order. Even ore from the same mine varies radically.

 

[sgtfda]

It is not to sun light that changes the color of Quartz. It's the heat. Take a piece of smoky quartz and heat it up. It will turn clear as glass. Many gemstones are heat treated to improve or change color.

 

[Dirty Dutchman]

It is not to sun light that changes the color of Quartz. It's the heat. Take a piece of smoky quartz and heat it up. It will turn clear as glass. Many gemstones are heat treated to improve or change color.

So if the sun produces heat, then it COULD change the colors..... Right..?

Thanks,
Travis

 

[wrmickel1]

It is not to sun light that changes the color of Quartz. It's the heat. Take a piece of smoky quartz and heat it up. It will turn clear as glass. Many gemstones are heat treated to improve or change color.

So what your saying is your rose quartz gold will change in 24 hours and the Canadain Somehikers will stay rose color forever in the frozen tudra,

Wrmickel1

 

[sgtfda]

Travis it not light that changes the color but the heat from the sunlight. Same thing works on a glass bottle that out in the desert for years. Can turn purple. It's the heat. I'm also a Graduate Gemologist.

 

[sgtfda]

I should add the temperature to change the color of rosé quartz needs to be above 500 degrees

I think my car seat reaches that temp at Least it feels like it

 

[sgtfda]

I bet if the quartz in the matchbox was removed the backside would be a different color. Lets say the matchbox was displayed under a lightbulb for long periods of time. That would change color of the surface. I have a heater that uses quartz rods those babies heat up. The rods are quartz because they transfer the heat so well.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

@ Matthew,
Thanks for your information and pics.
I was at the AJ museums website and it said on one of the pages that the ore from the Bulldog mine matched the Dutchmans ore with about 70-80 percent accuracy. If I remember right.
Is not the present owner, or previous of the bulldog the same person that holds or owns the matchbox, and maybe the ring.

roadrunner,

The owners of the Bulldog Mine in order of ownership were : Oren Merrill, Orlando Merrill, JR Morse, CRHakes, Gus Hirshfeld, Chas. Ellis, Ralph Shill, Milo Shill, Alfred Lewis, Elmer Boyle, Alfred Lewis (again), Curtis Chapman, Hank D'Andrea and Ernie Saviano. But none of these gentlemen are the owner of the Matchbox, remaining Dutchman ore or the ring.

The Bulldog and the Dutchman ore are a close match but the Bulldog was ore in quartz and calcite while the Dutchman is ore in pure quartz. No silver was found in Bulldog ore but was present in the Dutchman. Bulldog ore is close but enough differences to rule the two out as being one and the same.

The Superstition Mountain Historical Society Museum (SMHSM) believes the stone maps they have in their possession are the originals based on "verbal" communications with the Flagg Foundation.

Matthew K. Roberts

 

[sgtfda]

Lets not forget the gold in the quartz. Gold and silver heat up fast. Ever lean over a open hot oven with a gold or silver necklace on. Wow! I had to hook up wiring in my attic during a Az. Hot spell. In 5 min my gold necklace heated up so hot it burned my neck. Well the gold in the match box ore and the match box would heat up the quartz even more. If it was on display under a light at any time. That will do it. Hell go to a flea market and ask to see a piece of gold or silver jewelry that's been in display case that sat in the sun. Yep that will do it

 

[Springfield]

Travis it not light that changes the color but the heat from the sunlight. Same thing works on a glass bottle that out in the desert for years. Can turn purple. It's the heat. I'm also a Graduate Gemologist.

Don't mean to be argumentative, but let's deal with the facts. It's all about the sun.

1) http://www.rockandmineral.org/light faded minerals- don kauffman 0110.pdf "Two other minerals were reported as victims of sunlight, kunzite and rose quartz... Pink or rose quartz will fade as we noted in a piece of quartz from Beauregard Mine, New Hampshire. That mineral may have been a beautiful pink when first left on a ledge at the mine years ago. But when discovered the summer of 2008 the mineral had turned to almost a clear transparent quartz with just a hint of pink. An excellent source on how sunlight and UV affects various minerals vis found in a book ... John Sinkankas, 'Color Changes in Gemstones and Minerals', from The Gemstone and Mineral data Book, Winchester Press, c1972, pp 112-120."

2) Bottle Colors Page "Some of the better dating reliability is for bottles with manganese dioxide decolorized glass. Upon exposure to sunlight, this glass will turn a light pink or lavender to moderately dark amethyst or purple depending on the amount of manganese and amount of ultraviolet (UV) light. This is called "sun-purpled" or 'sun colored amethyst ' (SCA) glass."

 

[Dirty Dutchman]

Don't mean to be argumentative, but let's deal with the facts. It's all about the sun.

1) http://www.rockandmineral.org/light%20faded%20minerals-%20don%20kauffman%200110.pdf "Two other minerals were reported as victims of sunlight, kunzite and rose quartz... Pink or rose quartz will fade as we noted in a piece of quartz from Beauregard Mine, New Hampshire. That mineral may have been a beautiful pink when first left on a ledge at the mine years ago. But when discovered the summer of 2008 the mineral had turned to almost a clear transparent quartz with just a hint of pink. An excellent source on how sunlight and UV affects various minerals vis found in a book ... John Sinkankas, 'Color Changes in Gemstones and Minerals', from The Gemstone and Mineral data Book, Winchester Press, c1972, pp 112-120."

2) Bottle Colors Page "Some of the better dating reliability is for bottles with manganese dioxide decolorized glass. Upon exposure to sunlight, this glass will turn a light pink or lavender to moderately dark amethyst or purple depending on the amount of manganese and amount of ultraviolet (UV) light. This is called "sun-purpled" or 'sun colored amethyst ' (SCA) glass."

Thats what I was trying to convey. Thanks for posting Springfield.

Travis

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

interesting gold photos...thank you.
up above schoolhouse gulch southside of Prescott...the ridge runs down to the overlook above congress..
I have found similar quartz....not much of it...but a sample.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Next rendezvous - you guys are just going to have to take a look at Bob Corbins right hand!!

 

[cactusjumper]

Next rendezvous - you guys are just going to have to take a look at Bob Corbins right hand!!

View attachment 813835

Hi Beth,

Nice to see you posting again. Hope everything is ok.

I'm not so sure that Bob will be wearing his ring, and even less sure he will be claiming it's Dutchman's ore. Once he found out the person who sold it to him was a fraud, it was over. He confirmed all of the information for himself, just as I did.

On the other hand, it's a mighty fine looking ring.

Take care,

Joe

 

[roadrunner]

That was my thought when I first saw the ring from a pic on this forum.
Same with the matchbox, at least to me,where is the proof.
Was it even under the bed, on Waltz, or even in his house.
Unless I am missing something.

 

[Dirty Dutchman]

Hi Beth,

Nice to see you posting again. Hope everything is ok.

I'm not so sure that Bob will be wearing his ring, and even less sure he will be claiming it's Dutchman's ore. Once he found out the person who sold it to him was a fraud, it was over. He confirmed all of the information for himself, just as I did.

On the other hand, it's a mighty fine looking ring.

Take care,

Joe

Joe

Im just curious. Has Bobs ring been PROVEN to NOT be from Dutchman ore?

Thanks
Travis

 

[sgtfda]

Bob let me look it over with a loupe last year. Interesting piece.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Geeze sarge, you were a fence?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

Geeze sarge, you were a fence?

Don Jose de La Mancha

Don Jose,

I would say more like a rock wall.

Take care,

Joe