Dutchman Ore

[cactusjumper]

Joe - how are you doing? Good to talk to you.

I posted the ring that Bob was wearing, specifically, to identify where that first picture that had been posted of the ore, had come from - I was not saying it was Dutchman or otherwise.

On another point, there was, until recently, a gentleman who, indeed, had several samples of a good part of the ore from the area mines, etc. His collection was used by many to determine where certain ores had come from, and by several well-know prospectors, writers and otherwise. Ore, in this manner, is usually determined on a "point" system, much like fingerprints - 1-100 "points". If you find an ore that is a 97 point match to a known ore, the chances are it is from that place. If it is decidedly different, less points - it is not from a particular known ore. For instance, there are known samples from the Vulture mine, and other ores found did NOT match the Vulture Mine - therefore, it wasn't high-graded from the Vulture Mine.

Mrs.O

Hi Beth,

Yes, I knew that you were not saying it was Dutchman ore.

I believe there is one other person, besides "the businessman" who, it is said, has Dutchman ore. My source for that is very good, in my estimation, so I believe him. On the other hand, your trusted sources are only as good as their sources.

There is so much deceit in this game, that real friendship is a rare commodity. Many of us have had our trust betrayed by folks we called friend. They turned out to be.....a friendly acquaintance.

Take care my friends,

Joe

 

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[cactusjumper]

As far as I know, the highlighted, and underlined, portion of the above statement is true. You see, the owner of that ring received it from his wife, Helen, as a gift. Bob has told me the story of how he came by that ring......a number of times. I don't believe the story is something that he would have gotten wrong.

Since Kraig was Helen's source for the ore in that ring, I should think he would know the truth. I have no personal knowledge of the facts in this story, so I am only repeating what I have been told. Many of you know my sources, so you can decide for yourselves.

Joe Ribaudo

My apologies to Kraig. It turns out he is correct about no payment ever being made by Helen or Bob for the ore in his ring. On the other hand, that ore was for sale at one time, aroung 1986. That was just after Kraig first arrived in Arizona.

The ore did not come from "the businessman" who is said to have Dutchman Ore. It most likely came from B.H. who was trying to sell it, and it's possible that he was Kraig's source. Like all things Dutchman, it's a rather convoluted story.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Matthew Roberts]

My PM box was full again as I cannot look in and post every day work and commitments being what they are these days. I trust I finally got back to everyone and hopefully answered the questions as best I can. The questions and input I received were most thoughtful and interesting. I appreciate all the kind words, support, and I understand why you would rather not post publically.

One question was exceptionally good. ....... Who has, or was known to have dutchman ore ?

If you don't believe the Dick Holmes, Jacob Waltz deathbed account, only Jacob Waltz had that ore and he left none of it behind when he died. There is no dutchman ore, no jewelry, only a lost mine and possibly several caches.

However, if you do believe the Dick Holmes, Jacob Walth deathbed account, several people ended up with some of the gold ore from beneath Waltz's bed.

The account says when Waltz died in Phoenix (October 25, 1891) a box of approx. 50 Lbs. of gold ore was under his bed. Allegedly he gave this box of ore to Dick Holmes. The box of gold ore represented about $ 4,800 in cash money. Dick Holmes picked out some of the finer pieces of that ore for specimine and to have some jewelry made from it. Holmes sold the remainder of the ore to Aaron Goldman at Goldman's store on Washington street in Phoenix. Goldman often being in the business of buying, selling and trading for gold in his store.

Goldman had the ore assayed as it was some of the richest and finest he had ever seen. Joe Porterie of Phoenix did the assay and indeed it was the richest he had ever worked with.

Aaron Goldman was said to have selected several choice pieces for himself and also sold some rich pieces to a few of his friends to make jewelry items. Emil Ganz, James Douglas and Gus Hirshfeld all at one time had some of that ore, purchased from Goldman to be made into jewelry items for themselves and their family. It is not known if any others purchased any of the Waltz/Holmes ore. After picking out and selling some of the best pieces, Goldman sold the remainder of the ore to a refinery. These men, Dick Holmes, Aaron Goldman, Emil Ganz, James Douglas and Gus Hirshfeld make up the list of men known to have had dutchman ore from beneath the bed of Jacob Waltz.

The only other way for anyone to have dutchman ore would be to find the mine Waltz got the gold from, or find one of the caches he was said to have hidden, and have that ore compared to a specimine or piece of jewelry from the list of men just mentioned.

Wether or not you believe the Holmes deathbed accout is entirely up to you. No one, myself included, is trying to convince you. If you do not, that is your opinion and you are most welcome to it. However, no one can disprove the account, only cast doubt on certain points of the story. Those who do believe the Holmes account, have a pathway to follow to verify the mine and cache(s) when they are discovered by means of the ore and jewelry that survived.

Personally I have my own opinion. Whatever you believe is fine with me. I am not dependant upon what others think, believe or say. I have arrived at my opinion based on my time spent in the mountains, my own experiences, my own conversations with individuals involved with the story and whatever little research that seems to be relevant to the account. I'm happy with whatever others beliefs are, respect them and have no desire or interest to argue, debate or try to convince anyone of anything. My posts on this subject are purely based on my own opinion.

Matthew K. Roberts

 

[cactusjumper]

My PM box was full again as I cannot look in and post every day work and commitments being what they are these days. I trust I finally got back to everyone and hopefully answered the questions as best I can. The questions and input I received were most thoughtful and interesting. I appreciate all the kind words, support, and I understand why you would rather not post publically.

One question was exceptionally good. ....... Who has, or was known to have dutchman ore ?

If you don't believe the Dick Holmes, Jacob Waltz deathbed account, only Jacob Waltz had that ore and he left none of it behind when he died. There is no dutchman ore, no jewelry, only a lost mine and possibly several caches.

However, if you do believe the Dick Holmes, Jacob Walth deathbed account, several people ended up with some of the gold ore from beneath Waltz's bed.

The account says when Waltz died in Phoenix (October 25, 1891) a box of approx. 50 Lbs. of gold ore was under his bed. Allegedly he gave this box of ore to Dick Holmes. The box of gold ore represented about $ 4,800 in cash money. Dick Holmes picked out some of the finer pieces of that ore for specimine and to have some jewelry made from it. Holmes sold the remainder of the ore to Aaron Goldman at Goldman's store on Washington street in Phoenix. Goldman often being in the business of buying, selling and trading for gold in his store.

Goldman had the ore assayed as it was some of the richest and finest he had ever seen. Joe Porterie of Phoenix did the assay and indeed it was the richest he had ever worked with.

Aaron Goldman was said to have selected several choice pieces for himself and also sold some rich pieces to a few of his friends to make jewelry items. Emil Ganz, James Douglas and Gus Hirshfeld all at one time had some of that ore, purchased from Goldman to be made into jewelry items for themselves and their family. It is not known if any others purchased any of the Waltz/Holmes ore. After picking out and selling some of the best pieces, Goldman sold the remainder of the ore to a refinery. These men, Dick Holmes, Aaron Goldman, Emil Ganz, James Douglas and Gus Hirshfeld make up the list of men known to have had dutchman ore from beneath the bed of Jacob Waltz.

The only other way for anyone to have dutchman ore would be to find the mine Waltz got the gold from, or find one of the caches he was said to have hidden, and have that ore compared to a specimine or piece of jewelry from the list of men just mentioned.

Wether or not you believe the Holmes deathbed accout is entirely up to you. No one, myself included, is trying to convince you. If you do not, that is your opinion and you are most welcome to it. However, no one can disprove the account, only cast doubt on certain points of the story. Those who do believe the Holmes account, have a pathway to follow to verify the mine and cache(s) when they are discovered by means of the ore and jewelry that survived.

Personally I have my own opinion. Whatever you believe is fine with me. I am not dependant upon what others think, believe or say. I have arrived at my opinion based on my time spent in the mountains, my own experiences, my own conversations with individuals involved with the story and whatever little research that seems to be relevant to the account. I'm happy with whatever others beliefs are, respect them and have no desire or interest to argue, debate or try to convince anyone of anything. My posts on this subject are purely based on my own opinion.

Matthew K. Roberts

Kraig,

Which is supported by no tangible piece of evidence, much like Ben Davis' story of.....Oz.

So tell us again, when did you first set foot in the Superstitions. In what year did you and your father move to San Carlos? Two very simple questions which I'm sure you should have no trouble recounting.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Dirty Dutchman]

Kraig,

Which is supported by no tangible piece of evidence, much like Ben Davis' story of.....Oz.

So tell us again, when did you first set foot in the Superstitions. In what year did you and your father move to San Carlos? Two very simple questions which I'm sure you should have no trouble recounting.

Joe Ribaudo

Just let it go.... FFS....

Travis Crow

 

[cactusjumper]

Just let it go.... FFS....

Travis Crow

Travis,

I appreciate you telling me what I should "let..go". Kraig/Matthew has never had a problem speaking for himself over the years I have known him. I have given him every opportunity to do that very thing. He leaves it to people like you, who have no idea what they are talking about, to speak for him.

Care to explain why you feel it's your business?

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

Kraig,


Here is a wonderful story you once wrote on Peter's old site that may help you remember the answers to some of the questions I just asked:
_________________________________________________
Aurum
08-04-2008, 01:29 PM
Greg,
As a young boy I had many happy times visiting my cousins, the Boni's and Betty Edwards at San Carlos. I learned early on that friendship is fleeting on the reservation and one day you can be a friend and the next an enemy. One lesson I learned early illustrates the division and carrying on of old hatreds and beliefs. While on San Carlos I would play with my cousins and kids in the Gilson Wash and Farmers Station areas. David and Kenneth Gibson, Buddy Boni, the Irving cousins, Fremount Valor, Adam Noli, Teran Kitchean, Jack and Billy Patton, Roger Stevens, Margarite Faras nephew, and many others.
I always knew there was a friction between certain families but didn't know why. One morning the Irving boys and I set out rat hunting. The big pack rats that made their homes in piles of cactus on the desert could be taken down with our homemade slingshots. The Irving boys grandmother would fry these pack rats in a big cast iron skillet after cleaning them and rolling them in flour and salt. They were considered a delicasy and I have to admit tasted good.
Coming home to Grandma Irving's after a hard day of rat hunting with our days catch in the upper Gilson wash, we ran into about 15-20 kids who most of them I knew and considered friends. It was just the three Irving boys and myself and for reasons unbeknown to me at the time the other boys squared off with us. Roger Stevens told me to chose sides and since I had been with the Irving's and having a good time, I decided to throw my fortunes in with them. My cousin was in the other group so I didn't at the time realize the seriousness of the encounter.
We were set upon by the other boy's and the biggest melee I had ever been in soon ensued. The Irvings and I held our own briefly and made a good initial accounting of ourselves but quickly were overwhelmed and ended up on the receiving end of a good old fashioned beating. I had cuts on my cuts and more bruises than healthy skin showing. The fight was over as quickly as it started and the other boys left us bleeding and minus our slingshots and days catch of packrats.
We went back to grandmother Irving's where she took out this big bottle of Iodine and salt and doctored our cut heads and skinned knuckles. I asked her what that fight was all about ?
She told me the Irvings were "Camboodies" on the San Carlos reservation. Camboodies was the name given to Camp Verde Apache, thrown onto the reservation in the 1870's with their traditional enemies the Chirachaua, Nedni, Chihene and Bedonkohe. The boys we fought were Chirachaua and Bedonkohe and just carrying on an age old hatred. Most of the time the Camboodies and western Apache lived in a tolerant peacefulness side by side, but the chance encounter in that particular place in Gilson wash, a place considered western Apache territory, brought the old vengence to the forefront and some old scores were settled that day.
Later on in a different setting, the boys I had been in the fight with acted as if nothing had happened and picked up where we had left off before the fight ever happened. A couple weeks later we were all swimming together in the big irrigation pond by the Southern Pacific RR tracks just west of Farmers station near where the old Osborne store used to be. When the afternoon train came by, everyone would dash out of the pond and grab their bows and arrows and shoot the box cars as they went by. I learned a lot about friendships and rivalries over the years at San Carlos, more sometimes than I cared to know. Most of it made little sense to me but it is what it is and you can't change it or their ways. Old friends become bitter enemies and over more serious matters than just a few boy's trespassing across a piece of land where they didn't belong.
Aurum
______________________________________________
Do you remember what year (approx.) that all of the above took place? It's a really great story.


Joe Ribaudo

 

[Dirty Dutchman]

Step easy Joey boy. I respect you, but won't be talked to like a "little boy". Just remember, i'm close enough to come to a rendevouz (or parker for that matter) and make you talk s h i t to my face. Which we both know you won't do. You be nice to me, I'll be nice to you.

It's "my business" because I'm trying to enjoy this site. But EVERY TIME Kraig posts something, you have something to say that has nothing to do with the post. Other than that, it's none of my business, and I don't care what beef you have with him.

Just be careful bringing me into your little feud. My only intention was to point out that your posts aren't about the topic, they're just personal attacks. You've decided to get personal with me.

Thanks
TRAVIS CROW (YUMA, AZ)

 

[wrmickel1]

Step easy Joey boy. I respect you, but won't be talked to like a "little boy". Just remember, i'm close enough to come to a rendevouz (or parker for that matter) and make you talk s h i t to my face. Which we both know you won't do. You be nice to me, I'll be nice to you.

It's "my business" because I'm trying to enjoy this site. But EVERY TIME Kraig posts something, you have something to say that has nothing to do with the post. Other than that, it's none of my business, and I don't care what beef you have with him.

Just be careful bringing me into your little feud. My only intention was to point out that your posts aren't about the topic, they're just personal attacks. You've decided to get personal with me.

Thanks
TRAVIS CROW (YUMA, AZ)

Hold on there, TRAVIS" You can't beatup Joe! Everything about him smell's OLD----Spice! But I guess if you opened a can of WHIP_ASS on him, He would be eating CROW, So the speak! But I've been told Gollum likes that kindda action, (310 to Yuma) Something tells me he'll find, Tombstone if he tries it with this boy. But I never new you were from Yuma, Been near there once and found this.






Would you be interested in this area, if so let me know, 50/50

Wrmickel1

 

[cactusjumper]

Step easy Joey boy. I respect you, but won't be talked to like a "little boy". Just remember, i'm close enough to come to a rendevouz (or parker for that matter) and make you talk s h i t to my face. Which we both know you won't do. You be nice to me, I'll be nice to you.

It's "my business" because I'm trying to enjoy this site. But EVERY TIME Kraig posts something, you have something to say that has nothing to do with the post. Other than that, it's none of my business, and I don't care what beef you have with him.

Just be careful bringing me into your little feud. My only intention was to point out that your posts aren't about the topic, they're just personal attacks. You've decided to get personal with me.

Thanks
TRAVIS CROW (YUMA, AZ)

Travis,

If this is what you call respect, you have a lot to learn.

I have been threatened many times before. No one who has been foolish enough to make those threats on a public forum has ever followed through on them. You may, unfortunately, be serious so I will take your threat to come here or to the Rendezvous and physically attack me at face value.

As you know, I don't live in Parker. You have my address, as well as the rest of my personal information, so you know that I live in Lake Havasu City and my exact address.

I am no longer physically capable of fighting a younger and stronger man, and I have no illusions about that. That being said, no matter where you might decide to meet me, and convert words to battle, I will defend myself.

"Just be careful bringing me into your little feud. My only intention was to point out that your posts aren't about the topic, they're just personal attacks. You've decided to get personal with me."

While that may have been your intention, "Just let it go.... FFS...." is what you wrote. You brought yourself into a personal exchange (feud).

Sometimes, when you don't know the whole story, it's best to "Just let it go.... FFS....".

You originally came to me, and I treated you with respect and friendship. No good deed will ever go unpunished.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Dirty Dutchman]

Travis,

If this is what you call respect, you have a lot to learn.

I have been threatened many times before. No one who has been foolish enough to make those threats on a public forum has ever followed through on them. You may, unfortunately, be serious so I will take your threat to come here or to the Rendezvous and physically attack me at face value.

As you know, I don't live in Parker. You have my address, as well as the rest of my personal information, so you know that I live in Lake Havasu City and my exact address.

I am no longer physically capable of fighting a younger and stronger man, and I have no illusions about that. That being said, no matter where you might decide to meet me, and convert words to battle, I will defend myself.

"Just be careful bringing me into your little feud. My only intention was to point out that your posts aren't about the topic, they're just personal attacks. You've decided to get personal with me."

While that may have been your intention, "Just let it go.... FFS...." is what you wrote. You brought yourself into a personal exchange (feud).

Sometimes, when you don't know the whole story, it's best to "Just let it go.... FFS....".

You originally came to me, and I treated you with respect and friendship. No good deed will ever go unpunished.

Take care,

Joe

Dont see anywhere where I EVER threatened to "physically attack" you...... Since you like "questioning people", I'd like you to answer where you got that from.......

And yes, I do still have your address. Which will remain private with me. I honor my word.

Just let the man comment on a public forum without attacking him. Like I said, some of us are interested in his information. If you keep "bullying" him, I'll keep "badgering" you. Fair is fair. You don't get to call all te shots Joe, just because you think you know more than everyone else.

TRAVIS CROW (YUMA, AZ)

 

[cactusjumper]

Dont see anywhere where I EVER threatened to "physically attack" you...... Since you like "questioning people", I'd like you to answer where you got that from.......

And yes, I do still have your address. Which will remain private with me. I honor my word.

Just let the man comment on a public forum without attacking him. Like I said, some of us are interested in his information. If you keep "bullying" him, I'll keep "badgering" you. Fair is fair. You don't get to call all te shots Joe, just because you think you know more than everyone else.

TRAVIS CROW (YUMA, AZ)

Travis,

One thing I am very good at, is understanding what is written.

This is what brought your threat:

"He leaves it to people like you, who have no idea what they are talking about, to speak for him." That is an indictment of Kraig, not you.

Since you don't have access to the private conversations that Kraig and I have had, there is no way that you have any idea of what you are talking about. I would say that to your face, because in this case it's true.

My comment to you did not warrant this obvious threat:

"Step easy Joey boy. I respect you, but won't be talked to like a "little boy". Just remember, i'm close enough to come to a rendevouz (or parker for that matter) and make you talk s h i t to my face. Which we both know you won't do. You be nice to me, I'll be nice to you."

You can't make me do anything I don't want to do.

Stay away from me.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Dirty Dutchman]

Travis,

One thing I am very good at, is understanding what is written.

This is what brought your threat:

"He leaves it to people like you, who have no idea what they are talking about, to speak for him." That is an indictment of Kraig, not you.

Since you don't have access to the private conversations that Kraig and I have had, there is no way that you have any idea of what you are talking about. I would say that to your face, because in this case it's true.

My comment to you did not warrant this obvious threat:

"Step easy Joey boy. I respect you, but won't be talked to like a "little boy". Just remember, i'm close enough to come to a rendevouz (or parker for that matter) and make you talk s h i t to my face. Which we both know you won't do. You be nice to me, I'll be nice to you."

You can't make me do anything I don't want to do.

Stay away from me.

Joe Ribaudo

I'll go wherever I damn well please, Joe. You can't make me do anything either. Works both ways, buckaroo..

You must be losing your mind, because I never once mentioned your "private conversations" with Kraig. I believe all I mentioned was that you comment PUBLICALLY every time the guy posts something on here. And your comments are PERSONAL and NOT about the subject.

Go to hell you old *******.

TRAVIS CROW

 

[Springfield]

Since this forum catagory is essentially a small private club (rarely more than a dozen viewers at a time), the arguments are often hubris-driven based on tightly held opinions of a topic that doesn't have many facts to support any of them.

Ad hominem arguments ('attack the opponent'), however, are fallacious - used from a position of weakness. Objective witnesses generally reject them out of hand.

 

[sgtfda]

It's not worth the stress guys.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

One thing I forgot to add to my post of yesterday concerning the men who once owned "dutchman ore".

Dick Holmes had several pieces of the Waltz dutchman ore made into jewelry, among them were a ring, cuff links, stickpin and matchbox. The matchbox history is most interesting. Also, Holmes held back an undisclosed quantity of the ore for specemine and comparison purposes. His son, George Brownie Holmes, carried a piece of that ore in his pocket everywhere he went.

Aaron Goldman who bought the ore from Holmes had several fine pieces made into jewelry. It is not know where those pieces are today. Not long after Goldman bought the ore, the Goldman Mercantile business had severe financial problems due to the droughts in Arizona. Goldman had extended too much credit to the ranchers and when the droughts lingered he almost went bankrupt. Goldman sold the store and inventory and moved to Los Angeles. The Goldman family still lives in LA but are scattered throughout LA and Orange county.

James Douglas was a famous mining man and owner/manager of the Bisbee mines and later the United Verde Mine at Jerome. Only one piece of jewelry Douglas had made from dutchman gold is known today. A lady living near Young Arizona in Gila County owns a beautiiful necklace from the Douglas collection.
Brownie Holmes talks about James Douglas owning "dutchman ore" in his manuscript.

Emil Ganz was mayor of Phoenix in 1891 and President of the National Bank when Waltz died. Ganz bought several pieces of the dutchman ore from Goldman to be made into jewelry. Upon his death, the items fell into the hands of his son, Sylvan Ganz. Sylvan was himself a bank president as well as holdings in real estate and investments. The Ganz family is one of the saddest stories in Phoenix history. Once the most prominant family of phoenix they experienced tragedy and faded away into obscurity. Sylvan Ganz and his family lived in a grand house in what was once the premier Phoenix neighborhood, near 11th street and Thomas road. The Phoenix Country Club was built around their home. For no apparant reason, with no health or financial issues, Sylvan Gan simply walked out into his yard one day, put a pistol to his head and killed himself. The family was devastated and became reclusive, slowly drifting away. Sylvan had a daughter who moved to New York City and became very famous in the television industry in New York. She may still have the jewelry items, I cannot say.

Gus Hirshfeld was a well known Arizona mining man, he invested and owned many mines including at one time some of the Goldfield holdings. He as the others bought several pieces of dutchman ore to be made into jewelry. Hirshfeld also owned the "matchbox" for a time although he was not involved in its making. How he came to own the matchbox is a very interesting story. Brownie Holmes told the story, his father once needed some money and sold the matchbox. The man he sold it to was Gus Hirshfeld's long time business partner. The partner wanted the matchbox to give as a gift to his lifelong friend and partner Gus Hirshfeld on the occasion of Hirshfeld's retirement from their business. The partner and Hirshfeld both knew of the matchbox and it's history and fully appreciated it's significance. The partner bought the matchbox from Holmes, had it engraved for his friend and gave it to Hirshfeld as a retirement present. Few people know the matchbox is engraved : To GH From ML. Years later after Gus Hirshfeld died, his family was itself suffering financial misfortune. Brownie Holmes went to the family and bought the matchbox back. Brownie said he did not know what happened to any other jewelry the Hirshfeld's might have had that was made from dutchman ore.

Somewhere today, in a dusty display case in some pawn shop in Phoenix, an old piece of gold jewelry may be laying there, made from dutchman ore.

Matthew Roberts

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Photos of "dutchman ore" owners.


Gus Hirshfeld


Goldman Brothers, Aaron Goldman 3rd from left. Outside Goldman's Mercantile store in Phoenix about 1891.


Emil Ganz and family, Sylvan Ganz standing.


James Douglas.


Matthew Roberts

 

[Matthew Roberts]

For those who do believe the Dick Holmes Waltz deathbed account and the events that followed, there is good factual, historical evidence to back up the accounts.

On April 10, 1985 the then Arizona Attorney General, Bob Corbin, wrote and signed a sworn affidavit notarized by Kathleen Copas a Notary Public.

In that April 10, 1985 affidavit Corbin wrote the following (in part) :

This is to certify that I am Bob Corbin, Attorney General of Arizona. I have been held that office since 1979. ..........................
I have seen the report on the said ore (Dutchman ore) which was assayed at Goldman's store by Dick Holmes. The report states that the ore assayed out at $110,000 a ton. Gold was selling for $20.64 an ounce in 1891.
................. With the items were shipping papers indicating some of the ore had been sent to a jewelry company in San Francisco in 1892. A request accompanied it directing the jeweler to make a matchbox, ring, tie pin, and cuff links from the ore. I have also seen the papers shipping this jewelry back to Phoenix. ......................

Three days later, on April 13, 1985 Tom Kollenborn wrote and signed a sworn affidavit which reads in part :

..... The ore (Dutchman ore) was taken to Goldman's store in Phoenix, Az. where it was assayed. I have seen the assay report on this ore and this assay report indicates that it was assayed at Goldman's store by Dick Holmes. The assay report further states that the ore assayed at $110,000 a ton and that gold at that time was selling for $20.64 an ounce. I have also seen shipping papers sending the ore to a jewelry company in San Francisco requesting that a matchbox, ring, tie pin and cuff links be made from the ore. .......................

Both of these affidavit's can be seen in their entirety in the book by Helen Corbin The Curse Of The Dutchman's Gold on pages 231 - 234.

These sworn affidavits serve as proof there was Dutchman ore, that it was taken to Goldman's store by Dick Holmes, an assay was done on the ore at Goldman's store, and jewelry was made from this ore. These two men staked their reputations on those affidavits. There is of course other proof of the ore, the individuals involved, the assay and the jewelry, but less weighty than these two affidavits written and sworn to by these two men.

Dutchman ore worth $110,000 a ton would indeed be extremely rich ore and among the richest ever mined in the southwest. However one must realize and understand the ore being assayed was concentrated ore, not rock as it was picked and broken out of a mine. This ore was broken down to it's maximum gold content minus as much quartz and matrix as the miner could remove for transport to a refinery. This assay was not a fair comparison of the ore as it was found in the mine. Even so, at $110,000 a ton, and given the lesser ratio of a normal assay, the gold ore would have still been fabulously rich.

Matthew K. Roberts

 

[cactusjumper]

I'll go wherever I damn well please, Joe. You can't make me do anything either. Works both ways, buckaroo..

You must be losing your mind, because I never once mentioned your "private conversations" with Kraig. I believe all I mentioned was that you comment PUBLICALLY every time the guy posts something on here. And your comments are PERSONAL and NOT about the subject.

Go to hell you old *******.

TRAVIS CROW

Mr. Crow,

You are not welcome in my home, so you can't go wherever "you damn well please". Our conversations are ended.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Dirty Dutchman]

Mr. Crow,

You are not welcome in my home, so you can't go wherever "you damn well please". Our conversations are ended.

Joe Ribaudo

"ended" huh..?... Yeah, seems like I've heard you say that before.....yet you still seem to pop up on here when it suits you.... Weird how that works...

TRAVIS CROW