El Naranjal

[Oroblanco]

HAY now amigo we are not supposed to be posting photos of ourselves on here, might help the Authorities to find us!

That little episode happened over twenty years ago (still burns the hind parts) and in northern Alaska, over fifty miles from the nearest human habitation. The kicker was almost funny too - after the Bering Straits Native Corp had mined out millions$$$, and the state shut them down, they wrote us the sweetest letter offering to sell it back to us!

If memory serves, it was about that time when I first ran into YOU online amigo, and I did not believe a word you said! It was quite a surprise to be convinced that you are not just another story-teller, and a pleasant one at that. I am still very glad at having been able to meet you, even if we could not lure you to our camp and met on neutral ground (mutual amigos) I am sorry that we could not arrange to be in your country now, but of course Ed is scaring the poo out of me as you live more than the 30 mile limit!

There was an appropriate scene in that same movie from which your pic came too - when the two city slickers ask the old timer why not just file for a claim and he explains that it would be no time at all before some emissary from a big mining company would show up, paper in hand, telling them they had no right to be in there. Things have not changed all that much in some ways. Heck we got trailed by a fellow from a major mining corp in Montana for a full week, until finally I just went up and asked him what he wanted, and they were spying in hopes we would make a strike so they could then swoop in and claim all around it.

Hey one quick dumb question - do you know what the Mexican laws are for FAKE guns? I am sure you have seen them, they have fakes which look and seem to operate like a real gun, but can't fire and most you can't even put a round in the chamber. Are they as tightly controlled as real firearms? Just another idea of course, but I am not willing to write off Mexico forever; and while I would not send someone else into a dangerous area, might be willing to chance it myself if it could be done the right way. Can't say what I am referring to but I think you have a good idea what it is, and there is no way to find out the truth without going to Sonora. I am keeping fingers crossed that this whole drug-violence situation will change for the better soon.

Sorry to all for going so far off-topic - as to how this relates to el Naranjal, (despite Tayopa-funnel-vision) one whom searches for it would have to make that decision; if you found it, what then? Do you denounce it as a legal mining claim, and risk attracting unwanted attention, or try sneaking and risk losing it all and perhaps prison or worse, run into bandidos? Something to consider anyway.

I hope all is well with you and El Tigre amigo, I always enjoy your posts. Side thingie but I can't find the "like" for any of the posts either?
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Where is my coffee ya bum: Didn't they teach you anything in the sierras??

As for the Platinum, What I posted was that very few Assayers could assay Pt accurately, the presence probably, but the amount ?? A simple, but complex technique, chemical kit will detect the presence of Pt.

I probably could fairly accurately with My Perkins Elmer AA.

There are several Cerros del Campana, which one ??

Don Jose de La Mancha ---- my coffee?

P.s. My partner and I walked from Colima to Michoacan, no vehjicle roads then. just trails. We lived off of the country and once had to go almost 3 days without water.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Ed, after walking to Michoacan along the coast for toughing up purposes, we then cut over land to the Quintana Roo area to look for lost Mayan ruins. We basically lived off of the jungle for 6 months, why I snicker at some of the survivalist programs.

My old Machete ( Colins ) is still sitting beside my desk for reminders. Also my Bowie from WW-II It was constructed so the sheath could fit nicely inside of the mounting strap of the GI .45 Acp holster making a single package.

As for the Pt, I was referring to quantity, not simple evidence of it existing in the sample. Incidentally, you DID ask for Pt evidence , no?

Regarding Tacos in Sonora, While living with the Yaquis, I noticed no stray dogs, cats, or burros-- All do have a slightly different taste.

I would have liked to have met your uncle, I see that much of the family characteristics have also rubbed off on you

Will have to check on the Campan'as, but I am stuck here with the Escondida @ $ 2,000 a ton and of course Tayopa.

K where is my Coffee Early in the morning.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Ed, yer gonna need yer coffee in Durango --today it is running -20 below zero C. Like brrrrrr.

Having fun in the land of the new order

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Ed: you popsted -->I think I just got me a mouthful of athletes foot...Yuck...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Relax Ed only " he who has his foot in his mouth' needs fear that.

Jse d eLa Mancha

I repeat -- you must be Oitish ed - Quantity, qualitive etc are different words meaning different things.Ed. ahhhhhhh go feed yer pore mule. How is your mule vocabulary?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

NO problem n your mrmory recall, just go to a competent hypnotist and ask for a recall session. Everything that you have done or experienced is stil in your mind.

Don Jose d eLa Mancha

 

[bodi]

Ed T,
If you look up the treasure of Montezuma you might find that it matches the Indians find! I also believe that he sent his treasure north, and buried it under the Casa GRANDE. Hmm. . . the big house??!! Possibly the big church. . . Tayopa?

Bodi

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

hi Durango ED. Who said that your ore was useless?? not I. pistols at dawn? Oro will be my second. of course the appropriate alternative is a coffee session ? I'll ake cream in mine to combat the acidity, gracias.

Don Jose De La Mancha.

p.s. on second thught a full recall could be embarrassing soo forget it, unless you let an sin sodden, adventurer, like myself, do it.

p.p.s. As for trying to find out where your vein is located, forget it, I can't even finance my own mine which = $2,000 US a ton equals $250 ,000 a month with a small crew, good fr abut 15 years. . One can buy several Tacos with that

 

[Oroblanco]

Ed - keep in mind that most assayers rarely, if ever, see any platinum ore samples to work with, so are not very familiar with them. We found a new assayer that seems to be pretty good, if you want his name/address let me know.

I realize this has nothing to do with El Naranjal, and have no idea how to tie it in to the topic. Maybe as sage advice for anyone looking for Naranjal - find a good reliable assayer to do all your sample work. And always be careful how much info you let others know about the location of your finds.

Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Allo ORO, you forgot our coffee. As for Pt, of course it is found in the Naranjal ores.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

)&^%%*^&((& it Ed, do a simple hypnotic recall, it is that simple. I can even teach you how to do it
if'n you want to try. No strings attached. and your memories remain yours, along with the location.

Don Jose de La Mancha < el Swengali

 

[coazon de oro]

Sonoran Svengali,

So the cat is out of the bag, you finally reveal how the poor Guayigiro, and Yaqui have shown you the Naranjal, Tayopa, and so many other locations. Once they find out the truth they will make you into "chicharrones". Any last requests? Coffee maybe?

Homar

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Geeze Corozon de plomo, who do you suppose coached Carlos Castenade on his series on
[h=1]The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge[/h]don Jose de La Mancha.

 

[Oroblanco]

Real de Tayopa wrote

As for Pt, of course it is found in the Naranjal ores.

I have never seen platinum ever mentioned as associated with El Naranjal at all amigo, however I would like to see anything that supports your contention, thanks in advance.
Ed T wrote

I personally have always been under the impression that Georgius Agricola in De Re Metallica mentions Pt...But who knowsMaybe I am the one who is wrong...I think that Agricola mentions Pt as White Lead...Although I may be wrong again...I am pretty sure that I had read somewhere in this book that Pt was discovered much earlier than the 1735 date mentioned by this so called expert...Oh well...

White lead was Tin, and was called white lead by the ancients as well, as they thought it was a type of lead. I believe you are correct that platinum was discovered earlier than 1735, and was a problem in fact; the ores processed at Guevavi were found to contain good values of platinum which had no value at the time, there are stories of the Spaniards using platinum as a "pot metal" to patch holes in pots and pans! The platinum at Guevavi came from the Vekol, a little tidbit I only recently learned, and helps seal the case that it was indeed the Jesuits doing the mining there. But anyway that would date to the early 1690s, and I am sure there are even earlier discoveries as well.

Ed T also wrote

I seemed to have misplaced the stinking Pt ledge and I can't find it...Anyhow...It is a truly unique ledge...I do not think that there is any other like it in the world.

I would not be surprised in the least. Platinum ores are not common at all and a new type may be what you discovered. I am also in agreement with Don Jose, you would be able to find it again if you had the time and resources to hunt it up just by retracing your steps, and if necessary even hypnotic regression to recall it.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

Sock coffee anyone?

 

[Oroblanco]

Like I said...I myself am no expert when it comes to Platinum...Though, I think that what I had read in De Re Metallica is that Pliny the Elder had mentioned Platinum at some point...

Ed T

Hola amigo Ed - there are some authors whom have tried to ID a "mystery metal" described by Pliny the Elder, but he rather seems to be describing a natural type of high-nickel iron; the ore he describes is a 'black sand" and is as hard as regular iron yet does not rust. Platinum would not be described that way. Iron type black sands were supposedly the source material for true Japanese Samurai swords as well. Anyway you are dead-on that there are dang few "experts" on Platinum, especially the ores of it.

Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

Ed if I can't entice you to return to Old Mexico (and thus be MY guide! ) I will be reduced to trying to lure you into hunting one of the over 3000 lost mines in the western Us, or the several hundred across the northern border in Canada. Which reminds me - you know that they never did find the source lode of all that placer platinum that was mined up in Goodnews Bay (Alaska) - and you know what platinum ore looks like!
Roy

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'd morning peeps, I believe that we all need some strong coffee. Oro,since the Naranjal has never been found, it's location still remains a secret, obviously -- anyone's guess, Tayopa zone >..

For the purposes of making conversation, there IS a gold mine with 'all' of the requirements of Naranjal, except for the 'presumed' location, just above Tayopa.

Since the same arroyo also drains this location, and had a run on it's Pt placer formed on it's exit into the Mayo, there is a strong chance that some of. or all of the Pt that it carries comes from the Naranjal suspect, no??.

Ed you seem to be under the illusion that I am interested in your Pt for personal reasons?? Frankly I can assure that I am not, just trying to help, as we all in here should do.

As for Oro, who is in charge of Tayopa etc. if anything happens to me, can tell you, I have my hands full on a project that can pay off far more than an excellent Pt mine can

You also mentioned -->I love Durango...And I will always remember the beautiful excursions I have had there...But I do not think that I will be returning there any time soon...Ya'll can keep your hypnosis...
~~~~~~~~~~~
Frankly, I was under the impression that you had mentioned that it was in the US


As for military life, remember I entered in the Guadalcanal campaign on 11 August, 1942 not counting the time to go overseas.. soooo relax my friend, I am not trying to worm anything out of you, but merely suggesting ways for you to benefit from your Pt.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. Oro did you know that the canons made in Cuba were exceptionally strong. They were cast from iron ore found in Cuba and contained enough Pt to make it possibly worth while to melt them down for their Pt content.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'd morning Ed The surface rights belong to the land owner, but the mineral rights belong to the Gov't, who in turn can allow you to exploit them under a mining claim. However you still have to reimburse the land owner for any land usage. If the two of you cannot reach an understanding it is referred to Mexico city,where a ruling is made, in general favorably to the Miner in most cases since in general the land will not be occupied for a very long time, in effect you are renting the land from the owner, with priority rights.

You find a good mine possibility, file on it immediately.

I'll have to check, but as it stands we have perhaps 2- 3,000 hectares, if they haven't filed on more without telling or asking my opinion and permission.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. ORO de Tayopa, while I am not personally convinced that that is the Naranjal of fame, since no one has found it in over almost 200 years using the pertinent data - Dobie --
who has been known to slightly alter facts, one guess is as good as any, and it does fit the description and time period.

p.p.s. ORO d -T, You now have to help me decypher the Kipur knot system of Peru. Next side project to help Corp, Crow, and Kanacer.

.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Unfortunately ED things just don't work out that way any more. so if you can find it again, F I L E on it immediately.

Jose.

 

[Oroblanco]

Ed - if there are any active mining claims anywhere near your platinum ledge - I have to agree with Don Jose - file on it right away. The paperwork is a nuisance but it would give you legal ownership of the ore/minerals. If it is rich enough to work on a small scale, the legal requirements for mining it (small miner exemptions) are considerably less stringent. However if there has never been a mining claim anywhere near it, and no one ventures into the area, then perhaps it might be better to not file on it.

If the platinum can be extracted from the ore by simple grinding and then the usual gravity separation methods, your ledge could be a very fun project amigo.

Don Jose de la Mancha - lets see, at Tayopa we have not less than 18 known and documented mines, AND an official Real de Minas, not to mention quite possibly the most impressive stash of gold and silver remaining to be recovered on dry land (excepting the tomb of Genghis Khan of course) and yet this is not enough for some people? In Tayopa we also have El Naranjal ( just a wee bit relocated) and the Lost Adams (also a tiny bit relocated) - sheesh amigo it sure looks to me like a case of Tayopa Funnel Vision to me!

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

PS Have already deciphered the Quipu knotted string writing system, but cannot figure out how to translate the resulting Quechan language into Anglo?