El Naranjal

Nov 8, 2004
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Oro de Tayopa, where is the coffee? I have mentioned several times that the basic descriptions fit both very easily, so since in effect, either of the aforementioned properties are either non-existent or merely being looked for in incorrect locations, which does not include Tayopa, I merely tossed them into the play to encourage others to think outside of the convential box.

To be perfectly honest, the hidden Spaniard Don's Gold property is quite rich in it's own right. A geo chem kit in your hands just might locate it,

As for the cave where he stored his bars, it has been found once by Juanito, who merely snipped off enough Au for his personal needs, and he was too uneducated to try to buy the world with it. when he died it returned to missing state, but with a special clue which was asked of me once..I know where that point is, but the entire zone has to be played like a deck of cards. Which comes first? and when the first is opened up, the area will be swaming,

What I am suggesting is that the searchers move out of the box of Dobies' making. The nearest that I can say postively is that if my partner hadn't died, I would have opened La Goria Pan long ago..
'
The lost Adams, while very interesting is 'not at Tayop, I agree, I threw that into the pot to get people to not follow the same paths and searches of many others before them.. Most of their predecessors were not particularly stupid.

People 'still' look for 'THE' Tayopa up in the Guaynopita area., despite my constantly telling them of the whole story. .

You also posted -->PS Have already deciphered the Quipu knotted string writing system, but cannot figure out how to translate the resulting Quechan language into Anglo?

Try pig Latin or Spangalish, or perhaps the sub divison Island trade English.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. While I am playing by suggestig that El Naranjal and the LAD could be in the Tayopa complex, can you prove that they are not?? The country where they supposedly are, has been gone over with Google Earth by amatures and more expensive systems by pros countless times with no results, ---????
 

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Oroblanco

Oroblanco

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Don Jose wrote
What I am suggesting is that the searchers move out of the box of Dobies' making.

Umm - there are other sources on Naranjal amigo, and while they are sparse (only two that are detailed that I have) both of these indicate the Sinaloa-Durango border area well south of Tayopa. Too much shoe-fitting to move it to Tayopa for me. :dontknow:

Real de Tayopa also wrote
p.s. While I am playing by suggestig that El Naranjal and the LAD could be in the Tayopa complex, can you prove that they are not?? The country where they supposedly are, has been gone over with Google Earth by amatures and more expensive systems by pros countless times with no results,
-

For your question, that would be a qualified yes, of course it depends on what you define as "proof". For the Adams as one example, the American fort only four days away rules out Tayopa by itself. As for the many unsuccessful searches, this only proves that they failed to locate it <them> not that they have searched the wrong area. As you know only too well, a mine can become extremely well camoflaged just by nature herself, and as for searching by satellite/aerial imagery, this works fine for finding something like a lost city or a fort, very poorly for finding something like a hole in the ground or worse, a tunnel or cave. Tunnels are pretty much invisible to satellite cameras and almost so for aerial photography as well. On the other hand I agree with the concept of not limiting the search to narrow confines, or sticking to the letter of the various lost mine accounts, knowing full well that all (or nearly all) lost mine accounts have some kind of fatal flaw in them which has helped keep the mines lost. But I am not willing to cast about, several hundred miles off the mark either. :tongue3:

I could present a case that the Lost Adams is really in the Gros Ventre mountains of western Wyoming, where a man named Adams was known to be living in the wilds, and stories of gold abound, yet none has been found. Of course this would mean the fort would have to be Ft Caspar, the ten days travel would be over 100 miles a day, and the Apaches were WAY out of their normal stomping grounds, but I don't take the idea seriously so we can ignore that. Side thingie but I have some info on Adams that you might find interesting, but will have to wait until we can meet in person to share it.

I still think that a trip to the national archives of France might prove fruitful for new leads on how to find El Naranjal, specifically the records of Emperor Napoleon III.
Oroblanco

PS - Hey you told me to bring my own coffee, so I presumed you must have your own! :tongue3: I will offer a cup of fresh sock coffee for our amigo Ed however, being ex-Marine, I don't think he would turn up his nose at it.

:coffee2::coffee:
 

Nov 8, 2004
14,582
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Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
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Howdy mi buddy Oro de Tayopa: about the coffee, I'll have you know that i am on a strict budget, but yes I'll accept your offer, with a touch of cream please to kill the excess acidity.

You posted --> Too much shoe-fitting to move it to Tayopa for me.
dontknow.gif


Agreed, especially IF the original accounts are any where in the ball Park. Remember I suggested following up the Rio San Lorenzo where a mining camp (Hacienda ) was once found by an Indian prospector at the end of his provisions, but never could return ?? the entrance was some what like Tayopa's, semi hidden from below. Want a picture of Tayop's again ??

As for shoe fitting, perhaps, but in my wildest imagination, but do you have any semi concrete data that actually places it in Durango?? In fact Wiki tends to place it in Tayopa ??

In the 1800;s all mines were required to be registered and a title issued, but??? No mine such as one this tich, would ever take the chance of having it taken by a legitimate filing as you once said, soooo?

The talk of a Hacienda, orange groves, and church reminds me of the stories on Tayopa having a Cathedral with huge oaks growing inside of the ruins >> Tayopa itself probably only had a few hundred Indians working in it, so why would they need a Cathedral?? Yes they did have a Capilla, but no cathedral

As for not being able to return to a previous find, may I remind you of my experience with Las Pimas. I originally found it and La Tarasca, it was up on top of the northern rim of the huge arroyo. One cold easily see the original portal since the first main room had collapsed leaving it standing by it self, however when I returned intending to excavate the collapsed room I couldn't find it.

Later, as soon as I entered the area, there it was, sitting in plain sight ???

So yes, I can understand finding smaller object then losing it.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

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Oroblanco

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Real de Tayopa wrote
As for shoe fitting, perhaps, but in my wildest imagination, but do you have any semi concrete data that actually places it in Durango?? In fact Wiki tends to place it in Tayopa ??

How about the royal road sign, found near the area where El Naranjal is traditionally believed to be? The sign named Naranjal and Juana del Arco as nearby - hardly near Tayopa.

Don Jose de la Mancha also wrote
In the 1800;s all mines were required to be registered and a title issued, but
huh.gif
No mine such as one this tich, would ever take the chance of having it taken by a legitimate filing as you once said, soooo?

Soooo - what? Are you claiming that we have ALL the mining records from the 1800s, 1700s etc? As I understand it, all we have today are fragments of what did exist. Also, we are hardly the first treasure hunters to ever walk the earth, and the early birds had no qualms about simply taking documents that interested them. It would be a surprise to find any records today, for any lost mine in Spanish colonial America.

Don Jose, el Tropical Tramp also wrote
The talk of a Hacienda, orange groves, and church reminds me of the stories on Tayopa having a Cathedral with huge oaks growing inside of the ruins >> Tayopa itself probably only had a few hundred Indians working in it, so why would they need a Cathedral?? Yes they did have a Capilla, but no cathedral

What is this about a church/cathedral at Naranjal? I don't recall that being mentioned? :dontknow: I can understand a little visita at a rancho, especially one that also had a mine, but not a full church much less a cathedral.

Good luck and good hunting amigos I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

:coffee2::coffee2::coffee:
 

Nov 8, 2004
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Side thingie, who says that there 'were' carved stone road signs in that area saying that ???? If there were carved road stones - highways signs - then that would mean that both should then be in official records stating approx where they were ?? hmm interesting.

Don Jse d eLa Mancha
 

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Oroblanco

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Man Oro de Tayopa, you are sure picky picky, where's my coffee?

I never said that there was a cathederal at Naranjal , did You mention it ??


Don jose de La Mancha

No amigo, I got that from your post - it sounded as if you were saying that both Tayopa and El Naranjal had a cathedral. My mistake.

Can't even find your coffee now? What are you putting into that mug, are you sure it came from Colombian coffee trees? :tongue3:
Oroblanco
 

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Oroblanco

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Side thingie, who says that there 'were' carved stone road signs in that area saying that ???? If there were carved road stones - highways signs - then that would mean that both should then be in official records stating approx where they were ?? hmm interesting.

Don Jse d eLa Mancha

It is in both the Dobie account and the old newspaper version. Who can say what was, or was not in the official records, after several revolutions and countless treasure hunters whom have gone before us? My best bet would be that such records are in the French national archives, specifically those of the Emperor Nap III

Have to sign off, maybe you ought to get some strong black coffee in that mug of yours as a friendly suggestion. :coffee2:
 

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Oroblanco

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Vaya con dios mi amigo Ed - though we know the truth of the matter is you will be busy hauling out tons and tons of platinum! We look forward to crossing paths again, and Merry Christmas to you and your family.
Roy ~ Oroblanco
 

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Oroblanco

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Ed you're a poet and don't know it - you got a rhyme every time! :tongue3:
 

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Oroblanco

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PS this old thread had about run its course, but perhaps there is some new info on El Naranjal? Could it really be located in Durango or even Chihuahua, rather than the traditional area in Sinaloa? :dontknow:
 

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Oroblanco

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Well Oro... I could have come across something else... But most of the stuff I have read puts it in Durango... Who can say for certain???

Ed T

Napoleon III :tongue3: Supposedly, he had a map, accurate enough that he laid plans to build a railroad to El Naranjal, and Tayopa too.
 

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Finally back. tis a bit disconcerting to see two images while tying. Nothing like fresh sock coffe to cear up things Oro get to work :coffee2:

Jose

Um, I have been working on something <a book> - how about you? :laughing7: :notworthy: Just yanking yer chains (plural) hope you are back to seeing clear and singular.
 

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Did ya'll like my purdy pictures of my orange lead??? hehehe

There are no mines in my neck of the woods... There are no mines in my neck of the woods... LOL :(
Ed T :)

Just keep telling yourself that, and believe, just believe....
 

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