Even further back in time, but is it Reale (Pistareen) Updated 12/24 New pics

[BobinSouthVA]

Wow each week my coil seems to be swinging over the right spots and I get older and older coins. Last week it was the 2 cent piece, 1864. While I was sure that was as old as I would get for a while, boy was I wrong. While out today at a site where nearby are the remains of a home foundation, I found this on my first swing. Beat the 2 cent piece by 127 years! Oddly It was all I found all day.

But is it real? It has the date 1737 on it and appears to have been cut in half and re-joined. Can anyone tell me anymore about it? I know nothing about Spanish Reales.

Thanks for looking and Merry Christmas.

 

[Bavaria Mike]

Re: Even further back in time, but is it Reale

That is an interesting Reale or Pistareen. Nice find and HH, Mike

 

[BobinSouthVA]

Re: Even further back in time, but is it Reale

Just to add, I am seeking to find out wheather this is a real pistareen or a counterfeit. All comments as to that are welcome and I will not be offended. I am soaking it in some distilled water to see if some of the more stubborn dirt can be removed. I post some more pictures afterwards.

Thanks for all the replies and hope you all have a great Christmas

 

[Brendan M.]

Re: Even further back in time, but is it Reale

Amazing coin! It's a festivus miracle!

I would love to know it's history.

Cheers and HH,
Bman

 

[BobinSouthVA]

Re: Even further back in time, but is it Reale

Here are some updated pics after some cleaning. I have also added pictures of the edges.

Don in South Jersey has sent the pictures to some Spanish coin experts to view and so far 2 of them think they are genuine halves and one thinks they may be counterfeit.

Don, Thanks so much for your help. You truly are a credit to this hobby and these forums.

The coin has been soaking in some distilled water and I have been very lightly rubbing it with a wet cotton swab

Hope you all have a great Christmas.

 

[Don in SJ]

A real 2 Reale

Well, I did not get many more replies but the concensus is, it is real, but a bit concern over the coloring of where joined and on the edge. Regardless, it is an uncommon find evidently and here is the reply that matters the most, from one of the top knowlegeable collectors of the Spanish Reales and author of the Pistareen article.

Here is an excerpt of his reply on your coin. I boldfaced some key words.

Hi Don:
Interesting: according to Cayón's book, a 1737 pistareen minted in Madrid has the assayer's initials JF from 1732-40. The assayer from Seville in 1735-36 was AP.
These are the halves of two coins.

So my best guess is that this fellow found the half pieces of two cut coins and thought they were from the same coin.
I think the left hand side of the upper image with the 17.. corresponding to the right side of the lower image with the AP and is half of a 1735 or 36 Seville two reales - but we can't see the 35 or 36.

Now the right side of the upper image with the ..37 has the Madrid mint mark in the left side of the lower image and that is the work of an assayer JF - but that half is missing.
That's my best guess. They are nice pieces and the very lucky finder made a very natural mistake. I could only solve it because I have the reference book. Cut pistareens of these dates were so common in Virginia.

So, he is saying the one half is 1737 and was minted in Madrid, Spain and the other half is 1735 or 1736 and was minted in Seville, Spain/

Congrats on a very interesting find from our past.

Don

 

[BobinSouthVA]

Thanks Don

I guess I can now say my oldest coin is 1735/6.

I guess the mystery will always remain why someone had joined the halves. Doing some quick googling I can't find any examples of rejoined pistareen pieces.
I wonder if there is anyway to test the date of the bond. I don't know much about that kind of stuff though so maybe its not possible. The author of that article seems to think the finder, IE me, has rejoined the halves. Is it possible that the bond is much newer than I think it is? I would think not judging by the corrosion.

Either way I'm still doing the happy dance and it will be the highlight of my budding collection.

 

[Don in SJ]

Thanks Don

I guess I can now say my oldest coin is 1735/6.

I guess the mystery will always remain why someone had joined the halves. Doing some quick googling I can't find any examples of rejoined pistareen pieces.
I wonder if there is anyway to test the date of the bond. I don't know much about that kind of stuff though so maybe its not possible. The author of that article seems to think the finder, IE me, has rejoined the halves. Is it possible that the bond is much newer than I think it is? I would think not judging by the corrosion.

Either way I'm still doing the happy dance and it will be the highlight of my budding collection.

I did not read it that way at all, he thinks that you thought (and you did, I believe) that you originally found one coin, and not two seperate coins making up one, he is not saying you did the joining of the two halves.

Well at least you know it is at least 1736 and possibly 1735. Can't go wrong with saying 1736 for sure...

Don

 

[Don in SJ]

I guess two of the most noticeable points of interest would be the green contamination that could be from a soldering flux/resin and the way the elements leech differently to the different halves. That could be caused from the one half being dipped (cleaned) at one time, before the coins journey into the ground.

We had concern for the blue/green that was also on some of the lettering, not just where the coin was joined.

 

[BobinSouthVA]

Thanks Don

I guess I can now say my oldest coin is 1735/6.

I guess the mystery will always remain why someone had joined the halves. Doing some quick googling I can't find any examples of rejoined pistareen pieces.
I wonder if there is anyway to test the date of the bond. I don't know much about that kind of stuff though so maybe its not possible. The author of that article seems to think the finder, IE me, has rejoined the halves. Is it possible that the bond is much newer than I think it is? I would think not judging by the corrosion.

Either way I'm still doing the happy dance and it will be the highlight of my budding collection.

I did not read it that way at all, he thinks that you thought (and you did, I believe) that your originally found one coin, and not two seperate coins making up one, he is not saying you did the joining of the two halves.

Well at least you know it is at least 1736 and possibly 1735. Can't go wrong with saying 1736 for sure...

Don

Ah I see what you mean. I did read that the wrong way. I thought maybe he saw something in the joining that indicated it was done more recently

 

[ModernMiner]

This has been a very interesting post.
Awesome find!!!

Don,
Once again you came through with flying colors.

Way to go guys.
-MM-

 

[garryson]

Re: Even further back in time, but is it Reale (Pistareen) Updated 12/24 New pic

Hi!

Nice coin.

http://www.workmansbooks.com/AuctionNo2Photos/433.jpg

http://www.sedwickcoins.com/Auction/DFS_TreasureAuction2_Cat_Silver_Coins.htm

Merry Christmas!

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: Even further back in time, but is it Reale (Pistareen) Updated 12/24 New pic

Merry X Mas & congrats on the Banner. I thought it worthy so nice to see it there.

 

[desertfox]

What a great Christmas Present and a stellar way to end the year! Congrats on the 1/2 and 1/2 reales and making the Banner.
Merry Christmas

Desertfox

 

[Colonial Zoyboy]

Congrats on your oldest coin to date. 1699 is not too far off in metal detecting terms.

Bone Dry Detecting

 

[ModernMiner]

Congrats on the banner coin!!! You deserve it for sure. That is a one in a lifetime find!
-MM-

 

[Montana Jim]

Grates on the banner and a very cool coin(s)!!

 

[Dirt Fishin Dale]

I bet we wont see another one of those on here. Congrats on the banner.

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Amazing find! I have never seen a joined coin!

Congratualtions!

 

[dgaughan]

fantastic find congrats and merry christmas

 

[BobinSouthVA]

Wow thanks for all the replies.

Never in a million years would I have thought I would find something to make it onto the banner. WoooHoooo.

Thanks for getting me addicted all you TNeters.

Merry Christmas.