Folks, Are we over regulated.......

[dieselram94]

I could give you a longwinded personal opinion about Obamacare and medicine but it would probably get deleted for being too political. Instead, I will sum up bullet points:

Fact 1: Preventive medicine saves money. Seeing a doctor for early onset pneumonia is inexpensive. Being hospitalized in the ICU for sepsis and untreated pneumonia is extremely expensive.
Fact 2: Hospitals can NEVER turn a dying person away. Between 25-50% of hospital patients cannot pay their bills and it gets written off.
Fact 3: Hospitals are going under from lack of patient's paying.

Starting to see the catch here Diesel?

We have two choices: Refuse care to dying people without insurance or have hospitals go bankrupt. Hospitals are continuously decreasing the quality of care and cutting corners to prevent from going under.

Fact 4: If we provide government mandated care for people without insurance as outpatients then it will decrease expenses inpatient in a hospital.
Fact 5: Private insurance companies will still exist. They accept clients based on risk stratification algorithms and formulas that always lead them to a profit.

So, creation of Obamacare will basically cause a two level system of health care. Obamacare will pay less then private insurances. The crappy doctors and clinics will gravitate towards these because they will not be able to compete with high quality private practice. The good doctors will continue to be private practice and continue to be available to people who will pay more. Like it or not, this will boil down to no money equals inferior care to people who have money.

I don't like Obamacare anymore then you do. However, healthcare is bankrupting the country and decreasing quality of care. America is currently considered the gold standard for healthcare in the world. We have to do something to protect this.

Diesel, your thoughts on my points?
Stocky, your thoughts on my points?

Mods: Can you copy and paste this to me in a PM if it needs to be deleted. I will edit it for content and start another thread. I think it is an important issue to discuss.

Crispin, excellent reply. I completely agree on fact #1 prevention is always cheaper and easier. Same reason it is important to see your dentist for cleanings regularly.
Fact #2 completely agree as well. Hospitals do not turn people away regardless of financial situation. And what they do not collect gets passed on to the patients that do pay in the form of higher costs.
Fact #3 Hospitals are struggling. But not all.
Fact #4 We already provide care for many low income people. A mandate cannot get money out of someone that does not have any/ and or hides it well. Of course outpatient care is cheaper than inpatient.
Fact #5 With this on the books the push is on to make private insurance unprofitable= no longer exist. The private insurance companies are heavily regulated now and will just become more so. Thereby forcing them out of business. After everyone is in the govt insurance the govt will claim the right to tell everyone exactly what they can eat, drink as well as how much. The argument will e they have the right because after all they are paying the hospital bills. End of life is already predetermined.

 

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[Peyton Manning]

I can only say what I see. Around here no hospital has gone under. In fact many large hospitals are building brand new smaller ones that treat specific problems. Seems to be a med facility on every corner.

 

[Crispin]

I can only say what I see. Around here no hospital has gone under. In fact many large hospitals are building brand new smaller ones that treat specific problems. Seems to be a med facility on every corner.

Looks can be deceiving. Hospitals are receiving massive subsidies from the government to stay alive. If they don't do what the government wants, no subsidy, they go under.
''

 

[Peyton Manning]

staying alive is different to me than expanding with new facilities. But you would know better than I.

 

[Crispin]

Crispin, excellent reply. I completely agree on fact #1 prevention is always cheaper and easier. Same reason it is important to see your dentist for cleanings regularly.
Fact #2 completely agree as well. Hospitals do not turn people away regardless of financial situation. And what they do not collect gets passed on to the patients that do pay in the form of higher costs.
Fact #3 Hospitals are struggling. But not all.
Fact #4 We already provide care for many low income people. A mandate cannot get money out of someone that does not have any/ and or hides it well. Of course outpatient care is cheaper than inpatient.
Fact #5 With this on the books the push is on to make private insurance unprofitable= no longer exist. The private insurance companies are heavily regulated now and will just become more so. Thereby forcing them out of business. After everyone is in the govt insurance the govt will claim the right to tell everyone exactly what they can eat, drink as well as how much. The argument will e they have the right because after all they are paying the hospital bills. End of life is already predetermined.

Yeah Fact #5 was the sticky wicket. I should have labeled it opinion #5 put I was hoping to pull a fast one over on you. This is the big debate in medicine right now. All the surgeons and overpaid specialists will definitely lose money. On the other hand, all the primary care, OBs, pediatricians, and psychiatrists will gain. There is a huge payment gap in medicine right now between specialities, all insurance driven. You know I disagree with you on the slippery slope issue; especially here, but I respect your opinion.

I agree, end of life is predetermined; however, not the place to have that conversation. We have probably upset people simply by scratching the surface. Best if we not talk about that one.

Peace,
Crispin

 

[Crispin]

staying alive is different to me than expanding with new facilities. But you would know better than I.

every hospital is different. I should have said, "many hospitals are struggling and going under." It is a lot more fun to use global sweeping statements.

 

[Peyton Manning]

well, I NEVER do that!

 

[bill from lachine]

Crispin/Diesel,

You guys are getting depressing....me I'd rather take the high road.....here's a tune along those lines....lighten up dudes....lol.

 

[dieselram94]

Good pick Bill! It certainly is my plan to stay alive. LOL!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Good pick Bill! It certainly is my plan to stay alive. LOL!

Well then, you have the HILL-BURTON ACT...

 

[Frankn]

well, I NEVER do that!

Hay, whats going on with these sex change avatar operations here. There seams to be an opinion that good looking girl avatars get better results! Maybe that is true! Reba, no no no, ...Frank

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Hay, whats going on with these sex change avatar operations here. There seams to be an opinion that good looking girl avatars get better results! Maybe that is true! Reba, no no no, ...Frank

View attachment 754584

MAYBE some T & A would help you, then...

 

[Frankn]

MAYBE some T & A would help you, then...

I missed that one, but it is worth gold!!! ...Frank