Haiti

[Mackaydon]

It's so easy for outsiders to criticize; espeically comments from those who may have little idea of the realities the Haitian people are facing. Consider this:
1. Many nations and groups have arrived to assist--but they are not 'self sufficient' units; unable to retain a lasting presence without the necessity of leaning on some other source(s) for self-support. This only adds to the problem.
2. Many support vessels have arrived in the area, but the two main cranes and the pier have been destroyed; making it impossible to offload in the absence of these vessels having helicopters and/or 'shore' boats.
3. And where would they put these supplies? At the dock? Consider that the roads are not only loaded with road-blocking obstacles (cement chunck, DBs, etc.) but also many of the roads themselves have been destroyed; some having five foot tall 'buckles' in them.
4. IMO, I don't believe the Haitians are in a position to control the administration of this total relief effort; it's simple 'over their heads'. And who knows if enough Haitian bueaucrats are even alive (or free from the rubble) to create a quorum on any political, economic or military decision--except the President, himself.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your political viewpoint) the US is the only country capable and willing to put forth sufficient effort, money, material and manpower to make a sizable contribution to assist Haiti today. It would be nice to see the Haitian president make the recommendation that the US lead and control this effort. Then (if we accept--as we would) the efforts of all countries and other responding groups would be organized into a more effective and efficient team.
Don.......

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

DR.ÖTEK Metal Detector, Waterproof Gold Detector, Pinpoint & Terrain Modes, Professional Metal Detector - Grab it through Amazon!

[aquanut]

I am no expert on who or what when it comes to this relief effort. I do think the U.S. should lead the way. All I could do was contribute to the Red Cross and pray that it helps.
Aquanut

 

[capt dom]

I spent some time in Haiti in the 90's when I took a break from
the Jupiter Shipwreck. I was with a company that had Import/Export
bank funding along with World Bank Funding all in place - for us to bring in
well drilling equipment and human and solar powered potable water pumping
systems to help provide potable drinking water to the Haitian people.

Were we able to set this up.....? No.... Do you want to know why

There were so many corrupt officials standing in line with their hands out looking
for payola and kick backs..... we weren't even able to get permission to bring the much
needed equipment in!

Most Haitians can hardly afford to have a roof over their heads. This is because
of a twisted fact that the majority have been oppressed by their own leadership.

Hopefully, many of the ones that are squiggling under the mounds of rubble
are the very ones that have been screwing the nation and its people. This may sound hard
but when you are living in a lean to or house made out of sticks and cardboard
and it falls down upon you - well, you get to walk away.

Lets hope that the corrupt infrastructure of Haiti along with some of the crooked NGO's
that have been so dug in there, siphoning off the gravey of foreign aid
took a big enough Hit that some real foreign aid may finally flow to the people who need it
the most.

 

[old man]

aquanut, John, I have a friend down there that just called me today to let me know that he is still alive. However, he lost several family members and everything he owns. All he has left is the shirt on his back. His house and everything else is gone. I am going to go out and try and raise money to get him and his family back on his feet. I spent a few days in Haiti with him last year in what I would term, extremely poor living conditions. At that time, I said to myself we don't know how luck we are, living in the States. I can't imagine the hard time those people are going through now.

For you Treasure hunters out there. I also received a location from Burt Webber where a Treasure wreck is located in a Bay in Haiti.

 

[Sorroque]

How would you organise the situation if You were the Leader?
Set up communications outpost.
Run lighting from generators working 24/7 for removing debri.
Then allow food and water in. Feed them and pay them in food and water,in exchange of labor service.
Next heavy equipment to pull up rubble.
Jobs:
1.Make camp for doctors to treat the wounded.
Doctors could DNA each patient for the future.
Bury each one in a grave. Mass grave if all agreed, or, pyre them all.
2.First to clear the streets of rubble. "Water" brigade the rocks to a dump.
Later these rocks could be pulverised and mixed with crushed oyster shell to make a stronger, durable, aggregate.
3.Ask for assistance from foreign countries with their Army Corps of Engineers, Sea Beas, and Marines to build shelters and help with cleanup. Blackflag the worlds battlefields and HELP OUT!

 

[kamgort]

I am no expert on who or what when it comes to this relief effort. I do think the U.S. should lead the way. All I could do was contribute to the Red Cross and pray that it helps.
Aquanut

Thank you for your kind words. Understand that the situation in the country is constantly changing and need an aggressive policy is necessary to involve local people to clean the broken streets and areas of damage. Dispose gang maraderov, rather than make new Samali. Monitoring and control so that you can save the environment

 

[capt dom]

Below is an article from one of the news agencies....
I've underlined the key elements in red.
There is no doubt martial law is currently needed in Haiti.
A "Patten" no bullcrap type leader needs to be at the head that
doesn't care about making friends or have any political ambitions...

There could not be a better time to clean house and make Haiti a
better place.... but it is going to have to be "tough love" no
political good old boy bullship You should leave that word, you are
going to bleep.... We are talking about the real world here...
Ha, ha.... maybe I tricked you...

Call for full rethinking

But some development veterans say a full rethinking is now in order. Gerald Zarr, who was the U.S. Agency for International Development's director in Haiti from 1986 to 1990, said even more must be done to involve the Haitian government. Too often, he said, understandable distrust of local authorities has led the United States and the United Nations to work mostly through the many aid groups in Haiti.

"Haiti's going to have to change. And if they do, we ought to make a commitment to stick with the government of the day to keep the institutional development going," Zarr said. "Unless we are committed to institutional development, I fear Haiti's never going to get off this terrible treadmill it's been on."

Others aren't so sure. Putting more faith in Haitian authorities can be done only if there is a crackdown on corruption, said Stuart W. Bowen Jr., who has witnessed the tension between local empowerment and wasted aid money as special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction. The United States has spent $800 million in Haiti in five years, he said, with little to show for it.

"Certainly, at this stage, the delivery of aid should be direct and not through the government," he said. "And that process should be maintained for a while, until there is a sense of stability . . . to make sure that the government delivers the aid well."

Lessons of the tsunami
Because nongovernmental organizations will play a central role for years to come, development veterans say, it will be up to the United Nations to ensure that their efforts are coordinated, as was done after the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami.

William Loris, director general of the International Development Law Institute in Rome, points to another lesson from the tsunami: the role of the rule of law. In Banda Aceh, Indonesia, this meant coming up with a formal, regional legal system to replace the informal customs in villages that were all but swept away. The new laws also empowered women to own property.

 

[bucketofguts]

it is certainly wonderful to wish upon a star. my friend who is a little knowledgeable about such things says a lot of money is going to find its way to swiss banks via Haiti in the near future. i hope he is wrong. God bless!

 

[kamgort]

Below is an article from one of the news agencies....
I've underlined the key elements in red.
There is no doubt martial law is currently needed in Haiti.
A "Patten" no bullcrap type leader needs to be at the head that
doesn't care about making friends or have any political ambitions...

There could not be a better time to clean house and make Haiti a
better place.... but it is going to have to be "tough love" no
political good old boy bullship You should leave that word, you are
going to bleep.... We are talking about the real world here...
Ha, ha.... maybe I tricked you...

Call for full rethinking

But some development veterans say a full rethinking is now in order. Gerald Zarr, who was the U.S. Agency for International Development's director in Haiti from 1986 to 1990, said even more must be done to involve the Haitian government. Too often, he said, understandable distrust of local authorities has led the United States and the United Nations to work mostly through the many aid groups in Haiti.

"Haiti's going to have to change. And if they do, we ought to make a commitment to stick with the government of the day to keep the institutional development going," Zarr said. "Unless we are committed to institutional development, I fear Haiti's never going to get off this terrible treadmill it's been on."

Others aren't so sure. Putting more faith in Haitian authorities can be done only if there is a crackdown on corruption, said Stuart W. Bowen Jr., who has witnessed the tension between local empowerment and wasted aid money as special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction. The United States has spent $800 million in Haiti in five years, he said, with little to show for it.

"Certainly, at this stage, the delivery of aid should be direct and not through the government," he said. "And that process should be maintained for a while, until there is a sense of stability . . . to make sure that the government delivers the aid well."

Lessons of the tsunami
Because nongovernmental organizations will play a central role for years to come, development veterans say, it will be up to the United Nations to ensure that their efforts are coordinated, as was done after the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami.

William Loris, director general of the International Development Law Institute in Rome, points to another lesson from the tsunami: the role of the rule of law. In Banda Aceh, Indonesia, this meant coming up with a formal, regional legal system to replace the informal customs in villages that were all but swept away. The new laws also empowered women to own property.

 

[Apolla]

This was a day or two ago on NBC but..... Im gonna spit a big HOCKER on the guy that they just interviewed on TV who is helping with the Haitian effort... He was yapping about his shower in the Hotel. Hellloo? Shower?? Can you say water crisis? Someone point me in this dudes direction... (Clearing throat for the big one now). I was already miffed at that Pat Robertson saying the Haiians made a pact with the Devil from their Voodoo roots and this was a a blessing in disguise. That was enough to put me over the edge. I did... throw the remote at the TV and No...my insurance dont cover cracks.

 

[FISHEYE]

There is only a water crisis when there is no water.There is drinking water all over that island.You just have to know where to look if you arent blind.

 

[old man]

This was a day or two ago on NBC but..... Im gonna spit a big HOCKER on the guy that they just interviewed on TV who is helping with the Haitian effort... He was yapping about his shower in the Hotel. Hellloo? Shower?? Can you say water crisis? Someone point me in this dudes direction... (Clearing throat for the big one now). I was already miffed at that Pat Robertson saying the Haiians made a pact with the Devil from their Voodoo roots and this was a a blessing in disguise. That was enough to put me over the edge. I did... throw the remote at the TV and No...my insurance dont cover cracks.
[/quote

Apolla, I like your attitude. Water is a problem down there and most of it that isn't bottled or came from a well, has to be purified. At least that was the case the last time I was there. Personally, I think the guy is lucky to have a Hotel room. The jerk should be living out under the stars like most of the locals.]

 

[FISHEYE]

You better hurry up and get to haiti before the haitians get all the treasure.

 

[itmaiden]

It is a shame, there is treasure all over the place down there...enough to really rebuild the whole island. But should the money go to "re-build" in a high earthquake zone ? Now there are about 2 million people in the main earthquake hit area. The US has given 100 million from gov't funds, and then there are the private donations. Instead of letting all those organizations handle the accounting records and where the "money goes" why not just give each Haitian a plane ride to another locality and $1 million dollars to start a new life along with some education. (Oh and the donations from Europe can go to the other other half of the Island..the DR). This serves many purposes. With no population, there won't be any more corrupt government as there will be no one left to terrorize. The people can be located to a land with other opportunities. It will leave more time for Island clean-up and re-development.

and the bottom line, we will know the money went to the people where it should go in the first place.

itmaiden

You better hurry up and get to haiti before the haitians get all the treasure.

 

[lurediver]

It is a shame, there is treasure all over the place down there...enough to really rebuild the whole island. But should the money go to "re-build" in a high earthquake zone ? Now there are about 2 million people in the main earthquake hit area. The US has given 100 million from gov't funds, and then there are the private donations. Instead of letting all those organizations handle the accounting records and where the "money goes" why not just give each Haitian a plane ride to another locality and $1 million dollars to start a new life along with some education. (Oh and the donations from Europe can go to the other other half of the Island..the DR). This serves many purposes. With no population, there won't be any more corrupt government as there will be no one left to terrorize. The people can be located to a land with other opportunities. It will leave more time for Island clean-up and re-development.

and the bottom line, we will know the money went to the people where it should go in the first place.

itmaiden

You better hurry up and get to haiti before the haitians get all the treasure.

About one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Are you stupid?

 

[bigwater]

It is a shame, there is treasure all over the place down there...enough to really rebuild the whole island. But should the money go to "re-build" in a high earthquake zone ? Now there are about 2 million people in the main earthquake hit area. The US has given 100 million from gov't funds, and then there are the private donations. Instead of letting all those organizations handle the accounting records and where the "money goes" why not just give each Haitian a plane ride to another locality and $1 million dollars to start a new life along with some education. (Oh and the donations from Europe can go to the other other half of the Island..the DR). This serves many purposes. With no population, there won't be any more corrupt government as there will be no one left to terrorize. The people can be located to a land with other opportunities. It will leave more time for Island clean-up and re-development.

and the bottom line, we will know the money went to the people where it should go in the first place.

itmaiden

You better hurry up and get to haiti before the haitians get all the treasure.

While I tend to agree with not rebuilding in disaster prone areas, giving each of 2 million Haitians a million bucks a piece would cost $2 TRILLION and that doesn't include the cost of the air fare or the checked baggage to fill out your recommendation.

 

[itmaiden]

No. Just Big Hearted ! And besides, how are you going to ensure that these people are not flamboozled and taken advantaqe of and kept in a perpetual state of poverty ?


[/quote]

About one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Are you stupid?
[/quote]

 

[FISHEYE]

itmaiden,

The us gov is bringing them here right at sanford airport,the city of sanford is spending $8000 a day houseing them,feeding them and getting clothes for them and pocket money,sending them on busses to whos knows where.Thousands of haitians have come in already.Its the talk of the city and locals arent happy.

 

[FISHEYE]

I have no idea where they are sending them.But i do know there were already aprox 10,000 of them in the us that are not us citizens and obama said that if they were here before the quake that they could stay another 18 months since their homeland is in shambles.I cant see the gov's reasoning with this since our economy is crap,and its just going to get worse everyday with more people out of work and no jobs.Im stocking up on canned food,guns and ammo and used cooking oil for fuel.Im going to start dehydrating fish and meat next.I got one of those beef jerky machines.

 

[itmaiden]

It is very wise to learn survivalist skills. A number of years ago a Russian travelled back to the US with a minister from a church I attended. He was very nice and taught us interesting things about Russia. Toilet paper on the shelves and shopping malls were not the only things that surprised him. He couldn't understand why Americans did not utilize their land space for growing garden foods. I've always wondered that too. Especially in warm weather Florida. People struggling financially, yet they pay the high price of produce at the grocery store when they can grow herbs/spices and vegetables 3/4's of the year there. Florida is "so status". Residential lots are "only to look at". Status does nothing for you when you are starving. The same with Treasure.

My family moved from Florida to Arkansas when I was 12. It was a major culture shock. I felt I lost many opportunities and education. However, I learned about "real people" who lived life in a more basic way. I learned one can survive without modern day conveniences, utility companies and other things. I learned to hunt, take care of livestock, grow a garden, using well/spring water, that you can cook and heat with wood stoves, melt snow for a bath and when there is an environmental crisis such as heavy snows/ice storms to improvise and just do the best you can with what you have.

The crucial matter though is medical/dental care. It is lacking in many rural areas of America. Yes, Haiti is in a worse way right now. But many in America have suffered and die for lack of access to medical care also.

The governments understand Haiti will need a whole complete social structure. It is complicated to take an existing population and build them a whole new world that fits their culture.

There is no way to keep Haitians in their existing environment while re-building their cities.
Remember Katrina ? Many states had to absorb the populations that were displaced by the hurricane/flood damage. It wasn't easy. Arkansans were very welcoming and understanding...until some "bad eggs" repaid the generosity they were given with breaking into homes, stealing etc. Then they were despised.

Sitting here on the New Madrid faultline and having lived in Hurricane Florida, watching fires in California, floods, tornadoes etc, one can appreciate the help these people need, as any of us may need that same help at any time. Unemployment in America is a major crisis right now. Americans are without food, water, medical care, transportation...It doesn't matter whether you are single or in a family, it is hard on either.

To help others while protecting our own can be very difficult. We must find a way to do it though. God's 2nd command to all of us was "to love each other". We are to be kind and charitable to each other, to encourage, and support each other, to never judge without tempering judgement with mercy, to give hope, to never neglect anyones needs for food, shelter, clothing, medical care, and to remain faithful ourselves.

Some people in a crisis like Haiti will ask "Where is God" ? We have a duty and a responsibility to each other...to love and care for each other. If we follow through with what we should do, God will surely bless us all the more.

Let us temper our judgement or concerns with mercy, give what we can, pray for those who suffer, and try to be good role models. Sometimes we can worry and I am not excluded in any of this, but we must remember, there is a God, a living God, whose hand is not too short to do anything for us which is good. We can't change anything by worrying, but we can change all things through Love for Love covers a multitude of sins.

itmaiden

I have no idea where they are sending them.But i do know there were already aprox 10,000 of them in the us that are not us citizens and obama said that if they were here before the quake that they could stay another 18 months since their homeland is in shambles.I cant see the gov's reasoning with this since our economy is crap,and its just going to get worse everyday with more people out of work and no jobs.Im stocking up on canned food,guns and ammo and used cooking oil for fuel.Im going to start dehydrating fish and meat next.I got one of those beef jerky machines.