harness decoration

[boondocker]

I think this is from a horses harness. thanks Dean

 

[CRUSADER]

I've delete my posts to un-clutter it.

I have learnt a lot on this post & will update later after a BBQ.

Please give accurate measurements?

 

[IronSpike]

Maybe it's a concho and could be for other than horse harness leather attachment/decor. Domed design appear common for conchos.

 

[boondocker]

I just measured it, it's 21.99mm wide, 8.10mm high, and 1.0mm thick I hope that helps, Dean

 

[shaun7]

I just measured it, it's 21.99mm wide, 8.10mm high, and 1.0mm thick I hope that helps, Dean

.99 of a millimeter? Wow that's accurate

Slightly smaller than mine!

 

[johnnyi]

Wow, with iron spike pointing out that that is a Barber dime, and shaun's boss measurig twice the size of boondocker's, it seems this thing is not a boss at all, but as Crusader suggests, may be a stud from an unidentified period?

 

[Montana Jim]

It is not beyond the realm of reasonableness that this horse boss is an early 1600s era find. I agree the New england location helps.

"Some bits and bridle ornaments in the Jamestown collection. The artistic designs on many bridle bosses are symbolic of beautiful handiwork performed by craftsmen of a bygone day."

Source: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/16277/16277-h/16277-h.htm

From the book: New Discoveries at Jamestown -
Site of the First Successful English Settlement in America
By John L. Cotter and J. Paul Hudson

 

[shaun7]

Wow, with iron spike pointing out that that is a Barber dime, and shaun's boss measurig half the size of boondocker's, it seems this thing is not a boss at all, but as Crusader suggests, may be a stud from an unidentified period?

Isn't it the other way around

 

[johnnyi]

"Isn't it the other way around"


Ha! yes shaun, thanks for catching that, I'll change it. I meant it the other way around. Boondocker's seems to be quite small, possibly too small to be a boss. maybe there's a way of comparing a known object in mountainjim's picture to guage the sizes of those harness decorations to see if boondocker's comes close?

 

[shaun7]

"Isn't it the other way around"


Ha! yes shaun, thanks for catching that, I'll change it. I meant it the other way around. Boondocker's seems to be quite small, possibly too small to be a boss. maybe there's a way of comparing a known object in mountainjim's picture to guage the sizes of those harness decorations to see if boondocker's comes close?

They could have had smaller versions for the smaller straps that matched the larger ones on the tack, like buttons on a coat!

Could explain the single fixing point

 

[johnnyi]

"They could have had smaller versions for the smaller straps that matched the larger ones on the tack, like buttons on a coat!

Could explain the single fixing point"

Shaun, I agree. It makes sense that the style of the decorations would match, and it seems to be the style itself that might be dateable.
I have a feeling it will be you guys across the sea who will match this up eventually. It would be mighty cool if it really did exist in the Jamestown days!

 

[CRUSADER]

I just measured it, it's 21.99mm wide, 8.10mm high, and 1.0mm thick I hope that helps, Dean

Thanks, far too small for a horse boss.

Thats why I couldn't work out the single pin in the centre.

Funny thing is I found something today to show what I was trying to say about furniture decor or something that went into wood. (it is concaved but not clear in the photo)

I have found domed single round decors with centre pin before but not as well decorated as your one. (but the same size)

See the pin on my example, it could have only really been used on wood.

I have found them with the complete pin (sharp & straight).

 

[CRUSADER]

It is not beyond the realm of reasonableness that this horse boss is an early 1600s era find. I agree the New england location helps.

"Some bits and bridle ornaments in the Jamestown collection. The artistic designs on many bridle bosses are symbolic of beautiful handiwork performed by craftsmen of a bygone day."

Source: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/16277/16277-h/16277-h.htm

From the book: New Discoveries at Jamestown -
Site of the First Successful English Settlement in America
By John L. Cotter and J. Paul Hudson

Those are good examples, I have many similar in my books but they are twice the size.

 

[Silver Searcher]

Here is a sexfoil harness mount, proberbly a harness boss, it has a central square -section rivet,

14th-16thc.

I know it's not the same as the original posted and it's bigger, but I am still going with harness boss

SS.

 

[CRUSADER]

Here is a sexfoil harness mount, proberbly a harness boss, it has a central square -section rivet,

14th-16thc.

I know it's not the same as the original posted and it's bigger, but I am still going with harness boss

SS.

I think it still could be a smaller leather decoration but not the typical 'horse boss' which went on the harness. (hard to tell without a full pin)

The issue I'm having in my head about a single fixing going on leather is:
The pins are normally short & easy to bent over into the leather.
If you have a pin coming out off a dome, it will be quite long & difficult to bend over at the end, as it would tend to bend in the middle.
If like your picture the pin doesn't tamper to a point then I guess the manner of fixing would be with a small soldered on square plate to stop it coming off

 

[Silver Searcher]

Here is a sexfoil harness mount, proberbly a harness boss, it has a central square -section rivet,

14th-16thc.

I know it's not the same as the original posted and it's bigger, but I am still going with harness boss

SS.

I think it still could be a smaller leather decoration but not the typical 'horse boss' which went on the harness. (hard to tell without a full pin)

The issue I'm having in my head about a single fixing going on leather is:
The pins are normally short & easy to bent over into the leather.
If you have a pin coming out off a dome, it will be quite long & difficult to bend over at the end, as it would tend to bend in the middle.
If like your picture the pin doesn't tamper to a point then I guess the manner of fixing would be with a small soldered on square plate to stop it coming off

Yes I agree it could be a smaller decoration, decrotive stud or something similar

SS

 

[boondocker]

well, I just found another one exactly the same as the original post, same center 1 pin same size, design everything. I found it at 5" I my field that has been used from 1730's or so up to mid 20th century, as far as I can tell no building has been on the land just used for farming. dean

 

[CRUSADER]

well, I just found another one exactly the same as the original post, same center 1 pin same size, design everything. I found it at 5" I my field that has been used from 1730's or so up to mid 20th century, as far as I can tell no building has been on the land just used for farming. dean

Interesting, keep looking, might be a full set (whatever no. that is)

 

[Silver Searcher]

well, I just found another one exactly the same as the original post, same center 1 pin same size, design everything. I found it at 5" I my field that has been used from 1730's or so up to mid 20th century, as far as I can tell no building has been on the land just used for farming. dean

Dean 1730 fits in with the time frame of the one I posted last

SS

 

[johnnyi]

Here is a sexfoil harness mount, proberbly a harness boss, it has a central square -section rivet,

14th-16thc.

I know it's not the same as the original posted and it's bigger, but I am still going with harness boss

SS.

I think it still could be a smaller leather decoration but not the typical 'horse boss' which went on the harness. (hard to tell without a full pin)


Good point about driving and bending a longer prong Crusader. I believe you mentioned in a deleted post a possibility of a trunk stud. Maybe it would be easier to drive such a prong directly into leather over wood. Perhaps a search of late medieval trunks and saddles might produce something similar in shape and size. It would be absolutely wonderful if this did turn out to be 17th or possibly even 16th century. It would be an exremely rare find over here, and one with great historic significance, both for the object itself, and the location where it was found. Keeping my fingers crossed!

The issue I'm having in my head about a single fixing going on leather is:
The pins are normally short & easy to bent over into the leather.
If you have a pin coming out off a dome, it will be quite long & difficult to bend over at the end, as it would tend to bend in the middle.
If like your picture the pin doesn't tamper to a point then I guess the manner of fixing would be with a small soldered on square plate to stop it coming off

 

[CRUSADER]

Here is a sexfoil harness mount, proberbly a harness boss, it has a central square -section rivet,

14th-16thc.

I know it's not the same as the original posted and it's bigger, but I am still going with harness boss

SS.

I think it still could be a smaller leather decoration but not the typical 'horse boss' which went on the harness. (hard to tell without a full pin)


Good point about driving and bending a longer prong Crusader. I believe you mentioned in a deleted post a possibility of a trunk stud. Maybe it would be easier to drive such a prong directly into leather over wood. Perhaps a search of late medieval trunks and saddles might produce something similar in shape and size. It would be absolutely wonderful if this did turn out to be 17th or possibly even 16th century. It would be an exremely rare find over here, and one with great historic significance, both for the object itself, and the location where it was found. Keeping my fingers crossed!

The issue I'm having in my head about a single fixing going on leather is:
The pins are normally short & easy to bent over into the leather.
If you have a pin coming out off a dome, it will be quite long & difficult to bend over at the end, as it would tend to bend in the middle.
If like your picture the pin doesn't tamper to a point then I guess the manner of fixing would be with a small soldered on square plate to stop it coming off

Its been a journey of learning for me on these, never paid them much attention until now.

I have come around to the thinking that it might well be just prior to 1750s