Have any markers lead to a treasure find?

[lamar]

Dear SWR;
20 years prior to WWII would have been 1920. During that time period Hitler was still trying to become a serious artist, if memory serves and there were no alliances between Germany and Japan. And also, Japan didn't invade the Chinese mainland until 1937, which would mean that the Japanese would have had to been plotting and planning for 17 years prior to the actual start of hostilities. This doesn't make any sense at all, my friend.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

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[lamar]

Dear cache crazy;

"Unless he started wearing the ring on his toe, it's still on his finger.

I respectfully decline your offer, as idle worship is not in my faith."

As I previously stated, it is the RING which is kissed, not the finger, whether it's being worn at the time or not. And yes, if the ring happens to be on the toe, then so be it.

And if idle worship is not your cup of tea, then perhaps IDOL worship better suits you, my friend. Also, what *he* are you referring to in your sentence:
"Unless he started wearing the ring on his toe, it's still on his finger. "
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Strike me dead, I misspelled a word (not my first). But you're right, it's "Idol", which I know how to spell...just didn't give it much forethought.

The "he" would be the one who wears the ring.

 

[rangler]

Speaking of rings that last time I was infront of a holier than thou person
and he presentedt his ring, I stole it..well not on purpose you understand
but as i bent to kiss it a bumblebee who was still learning to fly after he
was told he couldnt , then told he could, then wondered if he ever would
flew erratically by my face.when I had to sneeze from all the pollen he was
carrying.
When I drew a breath and bent to kiss the ring my hand went to
my mouth, I accidently pulled the ring off , with my mouth open swallowed
the ring and ran off from the fear as the bumble bee chased me, for he thought
it was a flower and wanted to pollinate it..later when I recovered it..I found
that it had magic powers to make people speak the truth..NOW you know
why I always post the true solutions to the Spanish treasure signs..

Later I found I can apply the Holy Decoder Ring on any printed matter
I tried it on things like the Constitution and it didnt change a thing.
On a certain Political Candidate from Chicago..about change, well
the Ring changed all the words on his web site..lol

NOW LET TRY THE RING ON OLE (JERRY) SPRINGER......

Let's summarize. Bottom line of this thread and recent similar others so far (as I read the sentiments of the various contributors, past and present) seems to be: 1) Based on compelling circumstantial evidence, most allege that there was significent Jesuit mining activity in New World North America (southern/central Arizona); 2) our friend Lamar has valiently refuted this allegation as a staunch apologist for the Society of Jesus; 3) Rangler claims every petroglyph and stone monument found in the American Southwest ('millions' by his count) leads to a Jesuit cache and he can prove it; 4) Springfield alleges that a very limited number of the above carvings are probably associated with treasure caches, but that the 'who, why, how and where' is still very much debatable and known for certain only to those who left same caches behind.


springer said....

[*lets interpret by having him put on the magic decoder ring...*]


Let's summarize.( *lets propagandize*)

Bottom line of this thread and recent similar others so far (as I read the sentiments of the various contributors, past and present) seems to be: 1)
Based on compelling circumstantial evidence, most allege that there was significent Jesuit mining activity in New World North America (southern/central Arizona);[ *you forgot Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma, Nevada, California, Oregon,Utah, Idaho, Colorado, Arkansas, Missouri ect ect..*]

2) our friend Lamar has valiently refuted this allegation as a staunch apologist for the Society of Jesus;
(our friend Lamar has valiantly refuted this allegation as a staunch apologist for the Society of Jesus
* [the only thing the truth decoder ring changed was the spelling of valiently~]*


3) Rangler claims every petroglyph and stone monument found in the American Southwest ('millions' by his count) leads to a Jesuit cache and he can prove it; *[actually he said thousands perhaps hundreds of thousands]*

*[Rangler has stated that the Spanish have placed Treasure Signs in and amongst Pertogylphs and in fact decoded a map for me
which I really appreciated but could not acknowledge, cause it would give him inadvertent kudos, ,which in my war against his
truth of exposing the solutions to Jesuit/Spanish Treasure Signs. And Rangler didnt really say it could prove it all, he stated that you can work out the solutions of the Code they used by understanding the attributes of various critters learned by the Jesuits in the University system where they took Natural Sciences..by I cant acknowledge that fact, cause i want folks to belie that you have to be bestowed or benighted or immaculately conceived to get the truth about the solutions to the symbols..and he knows that I know that, I am all about d-i-s-n-f-o-r-m-a-t-i-o-n~ or as the decoder ring calls it Immaculately Deceived]*

4) Springfield alleges that a very limited number of the above carvings are probably associated with treasure caches,

*[I talk about my self in the third person like Bob Dole, and Bob Dole doesnt know anything about signs Bob Dole just knows
when Bob Dole takes a blue pill Bob Dole get thoughts of rocks in his head because by now Bob Dole has rocks in his pants too!! .]*.

but that the 'who, why, how and where' is still very much debatable and known for certain only to those who left same caches behind.
tdr translation.....
*[but to cover that anyone could ever believe that real treasures were ever buried , I will keep to a minimum, even then i will say that the codes can ONLY be solved by the ones that made the codes...there by knocking OUT all of my competition , real or percieved! which satisfies my extreme greed, which DISGUSTS everyone, but hey as long as I get mine , I could care less, ]*

Ok I will put the Holy Decoder Ring back in a safe deposit box until the next time we have to wring the truth out of the spin meisters!
aurferiouly
rangler

"Don't worry about bitin' off more'n you can chew; your mouth is probably a whole lot bigger'n you think."

 

[Springfield]

Ha ha. As usual, Raggler, it's argumentum ad hominum and non causa pro causa from you. So predictable, and frankly, worn paper thin. You've been given countless opportunities to validate/demonstrate the truth of your assertions, but always have a diversion instead. Eventually your followers are going to demand that you provide more than talk. All kidding aside - do you really believe your theories or are you merely in denial of the chance that they are invalid? It's OK to admit you're wrong, you know.

 

[Saturna]

One thing I noted, as pointed out earlier, was when the bumblebee was told he couldn't fly, he proved them wrong by showing them he could fly.

So that's all anyone has to do, if those negative naysayers don't believe you, just show them proof of your statement and prove them wrong.



Jay

 

[djui5]

Good Lord, do you guys ever stop arguing?

 

[Saturna]

Good Lord, do you guys ever stop arguing?

It's not arguing, it's...ahhhh...adult discussion. Yeah, that's it.

 

[Springfield]

Good Lord, do you guys ever stop arguing?

Aw, it's not arguing, dj. It's more like video pinball. We whack raggler around now and again just to see his response. Admittedly, he's a pretty good responder. Nobody really takes this stuff seriously - if you did, you'd run in such tight circles as to twist yourself into knots.

 

[racknroll]

i gotta admit yall are better than the reality show crap on tv!!!!!!!!!!!! and way much better than the presidential debates i must say....

 

[lamar]

Dear group;
In all honestly, there would be no argument if any member could show proof that ANY of the signs or symbols thus far discovered were in fact of Jesuit, or even Spanish colonial origin, however this has not been the case and I fear that this shall remain so.

It's amazing that there are some people whom, even when overwhelming evidence of a subject to the contrary is presented for their perusal, insist on believing otherwise. To insist that a rumors, myths, or old wives' tales, are real, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, shows a certain degree of narrowmindedness which is disconcerting at best and even dangerous at worst.

That there are literally 100s of different symbols thus far uncovered in the US southwest would seem to indicate that they are of dubious nature and origins. Knowing the Christograms and icons of the Late Middle Ages and the Early Reformation periods, and having only seen one symbol which may be possibly construed as genuine, the crucifix, leads me to conclude that the symbols so far discovered are from a much later period than has been surmised by certain treasure seekers.

This immediately casts suspicion on the validity of all of the symbols thus far uncovered. Because the Jesuits and colonists were devoutly religious, it would stand to reason that there would be at least a smattering of Christograms and religious icons among the symbols thus far discovered, yet this has not been the case.

Also, because of the dangers associated with herecy, it would stand to reason that a Jesuit, and to a slightly lesser degree an ordinary colonist, would be leery to scribe symbols on rocks and trees which could possibly be contrived as having a heretical theme.

Also, that there has been talk of a *master code book* yet not a single authenticated copy has yet to come to light would seem to discredit the notion that the Jesuits were involved in the caching of illicit or illegal mineral ores, and that there are myriads of books on the market, each proclaiming to unlocks the secrets of the symbology, for a price I might add, seems to point towards a profit motivated business, with the fleecing of the gullible and uninformed the norm of the day.

And, because of the extreme difficulty associated with *attempting to hide an elephant under a lilypad*, it would stand to reason any large sized cache of treasure would have been witnessed by SOMEONE, or if not, at least heard about by someone, yet this does not seem to be the case.

Thus, armed with the facts and surviving documentation, I fear that we are doing battle with unarmed men in this debate arena. That we have at our disposal written documents and written history, while the only thing our esteemed opponents wield is the belief in an untrue conspiracy theory exists would seem to conclude that we are correct and that they are incorrect.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[kiddrock33]

hows this one seems kinda religious . i think doves represent holy spirit.

 

[rangler]

Great Pic Kidd!
Have you interpreted all the words on the ribbon and the text on the bottom..
Do you believe the date to be 1796?

The Dove according to the the interpreted view I get is that the Jesuits ah..er Spanish
(whew) gotta keep bro lamar off one post..lol..
the Spanish believed that the burial of the caches and the ultimate retrieval
was laid out like an allegorical Crucifixion and Resurrection!
So the Dove was the symbol of Christ of course and to see this here..means that the
cache is buried. That the allegorical reenactment took place, as far the the "reserection'
well that Kidd is your job now..I wish the best. let me know if I can help in any way.
If nothing else you have my moral support..you have THE single most complex Omega
Monument and Geometric lay out that I have seen..stick with it..it will teach you what
you don't know at this point!

auferiously
rangler


"Members of an avian species of identical plumage congregate"

 

[kiddrock33]

i was hoping it was during william kidds time frame 1696 to 1699. CHARLES CROISSANT lies below carving . hopfully it is an anagram. in the banner i believe it says stevens. this dove combined with four more carvings nearby form a five pointed star . two points lie on a circle 66 feet from drill hole. two more points lie 72 feet from drill hole while the top point lies at 74 feet.

 

[desertmoons]

I had a thought, people often ask why would Spanish leave markers that anyone could see. It occurred to me in some parts of the country this would be a very normal thing to do.

It was New Spain, they owned the country as much as we today own the United States. In a settled country that as far as they knew would be there forever, there was not much reason to hide signs.

Today we have expressway signs, signs leading to Ft. Knox rod signs leading to mines as a matter of course. We think that normal.

In a "settled" country it would not seem out of place to me for them to mark important trails. And in sparsely populated country marking minor trails.

Depending on the rule of law that actually took place, it might be reasonable to conclude mines would be marked too. In later years some mines were registered with the Spanish authorities, their location was not secret once filed. So..why not have signs, markers and monuments that led to them.

Guess it all depends on the danger of claim jumpers, thieves etc at the time.

Don't know enough about that time period to know if there was trouble along those lines.

I'm not saying this is why there are or are not signs. Its just a thought i had.

 

[kiddrock33]

i have never gave the letters a number value. several carvings appear to be mine marks. like ones pictured in de re metalica. called meers. these carvings are veery deep and very well cut. ill see if i can locate a picture. so if its a resurection that needs to be done then the key must be to "roll away the stone" leon russell fans might know that one.

 

[rangler]

Kidd
You mentioned anagrams and I came up with these..

for charles croissant
'a christs lens roc'
anarchist closer
a snitches corral
a stars chronicle
scrotal richness
snarers catholic

Yea Kidd I am a huge Russel fan..
Sing these words while you dig!.

Roll Away the Stone- Leon Russel

Well it’s such a strange world that I’m living in

She was my woman and she was my friend

But I was wrong again.]

Such a strange changes that you put me through

But like a fool I fell in love with you

What can this poor boy do?

Roll away the stone

Don’t leave me here alone

Resurrect me and protect me

Don’t leave me laying here

What will they do in two thousand years?

It’s such a strange time that we’re passing through

I thought you’d tell me when your time was due

I guess you thought I knew

Strange way to keep avoiding me

Why did you lie how could I help but be

Oh won’t you help me be?

Chorus (once, then repeat “roll away” – ad lib)
---------------------------------------------------------
the key must be to "roll away the stone"

yes! as in cap rock!!


au4u2
rangler

 

[lamar]

Dear group;
Too late! I heard *the* word!:-) And now, for my interpretation of the carving:
The dove, while once used as a symbol of the Holy Spirit, has also been utilized even more extensively as a sign of peace. If we recall in the Old Testament, Noah released a dove after the rains ravaged the Earth for 40 days and nights, and the dove returned carrying an olive branch in it's talons. This was a sign to Noah that the world was once again at peace, and as such, the dove, along with the olive branch are considered to be internationally known as symbols of peace.

The icon of a dove, when representing the Holy Spirit, is traditionally drawn as it would be shown from above, with the dove flying upwards, whereas when used as a symbol of peace, the dove it most often portrayed from a side view, such as the one in your photograph.

The style of the carving places it in the 1970s-1980s timeframe. The reason why I place the carving in this period is that artistic styles are constantly evolving and the style of the dove that is portrayed on your photo is highly reminescent of those which were used during the 1970s thru late 1980s.

The ribbon, or scroll immediately below the dove hints that the carving may have been meant to relay a statement of impact, or perhaps it was meant as a type of memorial. Doves are commonly portrayed in this manner with informational ribbons surrounding them as memorial carvings.

The surname CROISSANT (meaning CRESCENT in French) does not appear as a last name during the time period in which you wish to place the carving and it was relatively unused until the mid-1850s. The earliest recorded person existing with the surname Croissant was George Croissant, born 1842, died 1924, buried in Iowa. Also, there were several people with the name Charles Croissant living on the East Coast in the mid 1850s to present day.

The surname Kibby seems to be a popular one, dating back to at least the 15th century, if not earlier. The surname Kibby, also spelled as Kibbe, in Middle English, has roots in Germany, the Netherlands, England and throughout the US, mainly in the Midwest, which places the date of 1669 in context with the origin of the surname.

The carving, as viewed from the photo, seems to have been completed at more or less the same time span, which would lead to conclude that perhaps the carvings was completed within one decade from it's inception. Based on the available evidence, it would seem that the carving was started and completed during the 1970s-80s.

As an aside, the word KIBBY seems to have been professionally carved and based on it depth, letter spacing and style I would say that it was carved by someone who knew how to carve stone. Perhaps a person who carved headstones? To conclude, the name KIBBY seems to have been carved by a different person that the person who carved the dove symbol and also the carving of the word KIBBY seems to be much older.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[lamar]

Dear Dustymoons;
Since the magic word has been mentioned, I feel no compunction about continuing to post on this topic, therefore if I may, I would like to add my own thoughts to your well thought out and logical sounding observation.

"I had a thought, people often ask why would Spanish leave markers that anyone could see. It occurred to me in some parts of the country this would be a very normal thing to do.

It was New Spain, they owned the country as much as we today own the United States. In a settled country that as far as they knew would be there forever, there was not much reason to hide signs.

Today we have expressway signs, signs leading to Ft. Knox rod signs leading to mines as a matter of course. We think that normal.

In a "settled" country it would not seem out of place to me for them to mark important trails. And in sparsely populated country marking minor trails.

Depending on the rule of law that actually took place, it might be reasonable to conclude mines would be marked too. In later years some mines were registered with the Spanish authorities, their location was not secret once filed. So..why not have signs, markers and monuments that led to them.

Guess it all depends on the danger of claim jumpers, thieves etc at the time.

Don't know enough about that time period to know if there was trouble along those lines.

I'm not saying this is why there are or are not signs. Its just a thought i had."

This observation by yourself would seem to be logical indeed if New Spain were being settled in todays' day and age, however this is not the case. Even as recently as the 1930s, long distance travel overland was practically unheard of, unless it were in a train, perhaps. This is no small part due to the inherent dangers associated with road travel throughout the centuries. Even in parts of the world today, road travel is a very hazardous venture and seldom do people travel by road after dark in Central and South America.

Until the advent of the automobile, it was not unusual for a person to live their entire life in one place and travel no more than 20 or 30 miles from their place of origin. It was an adventrous family indeed that packed all of their possessions into a wagon and struck out West. The perils which faced these pioneers have been well documented and many pioneers died en route to the promised lands to the West. The landscape is still dotted with the markers of their passings.

Also, until the arrival of the auto, travel overland was very slow and the need for informational signage was unecessary. As more roads were being constructed, the greater the need became for informational signs and symbols, however until the automobile became popular, there were virtually no signs at all on the trails in any part of the world.

The distances between older towns and villages also varies with the local terrain features. Villages which are closely spaced meant that the route was hazardous and slow, whilst towns which were spread further apart meant that the terrain was most often easily travelled. The reason for this is because a traveller ventured from town to town only, and to camp out away from a settlement was an invitation to robbery and perhaps even murder. As a general rule, towns would not be spaced further than one days' ride from each other, and since there would be only one road between the two towns, no signs would have been necessary.

In Spain, there are precious few historical symbols along any of the major arteries, and taking into consideration that all of these routes were first laid down by the Romans during their conquest of Gaul, if the Romans or the later Spaniards used signage, at least a few of them would still be visible today, however this is not the case. Also, there does not exist signs or symbols throughout Central or South America, therefore one may conclude that the Spaniards did not utilize them as trail markers. And, seeing as how the terrain in lower South America is much more rugged than the terrain of the Southwestern US, if symbols were to be utilized anywhere, it would stand to reason that they would be used where they would do the most good.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[BLACKFOOT]

apparently some one found a treasure from my mountain lion story in new mexico.
Don"t really know how much it was because they did not send me any.
All my friend Mike found was a empty hole and a knife.