HEADSTAMP HELP ??

villagenut · Apr 26, 2015

Found this small caliber rimfire casing today with a single letter U headstamp. I know it's Union Metallic Co. but this is a small casing that puzzles me. Would this be an early production? It is 3/16 diameter and 7/16 long. Next to it for comparison is a .22 rimfire found years ago.

Broken knee · Apr 26, 2015

You may find it here? HH
BK
http://22box-id.com/Misc/American Rimfire Cartridges-1&2.pdf

rick67 · Apr 26, 2015

My guess is CB or BB Caps.

NOLA_Ken · Apr 26, 2015

.17 rimfire I'd think,

villagenut · Apr 26, 2015

Broken knee said:
You may find it here? HH
BK
http://22box-id.com/Misc/American Rimfire Cartridges-1&2.pdf

Thanks for the link BK, but the smallest caliber listed is .22

villagenut · Apr 26, 2015

rick67 said:
My guess is CB or BB Caps.

Would those abbreviations indicate the likes of a cap gun? Found one on the same site, extremely covered in heavy rust. Is in my tank at the moment.

villagenut · Apr 26, 2015

NOLA_Ken said:
.17 rimfire I'd think,

Sorry for seeming naive but I never heard of a smaller cal than the .22. What in the world would you shoot with this, a mouse?

AlabamaRelic · Apr 26, 2015

I think your smaller piece of brass is actually a 22 caliber short rifle. 22 caliber brass is between 3/16 and 1/4. The one you say is 22 would be larger caliber rimfire.

releventchair · Apr 26, 2015

Keep pokin around...
A measurement would help. A 9mm Flobert perhaps, or a starter pistol round, or 4mm Randzünder? Some sized rimfire anyway.

mick56 · Apr 26, 2015

The smaller one maybe is a .22, and the larger is a .32 rim fire.

longcut · Apr 26, 2015

Rimfires were made in 30 , 32 , 38 , 41short and 44 henry flat ....... the brass the OP posted appears to me to be old , and one of these calibers ... just my guess however ....

SkaBa · Apr 26, 2015

Sorry for seeming naive but I never heard of a smaller cal than the .22. What in the world would you shoot with this, a mouse?

The modern .17 Hornet, a rifle cartridge, is a popular varmint round. Very explosive results.

Broken knee · Apr 27, 2015

villagenut said:
Thanks for the link BK, but the smallest caliber listed is .22

I think yours is in the top row left of the pic? HH BK

trdking · Apr 27, 2015

longcut said:
Rimfires were made in 30 , 32 , 38 , 41short and 44 henry flat ....... the brass the OP posted appears to me to be old , and one of these calibers ... just my guess however ....

Not forgetting they Union Metallic also made .22 short standard and Long, .25 and failed cartridges in 7mm, 9mm,11mm All rimfire. The accurate measurement on the larger shell is important. So you know exactly what you have. These odd ones are collectible
UMC Started make the mm cartridges in 1863 They merged with Remington in 1911 and stopped using the U symbol shortly after the merger

Charlie P. (NY) · Apr 27, 2015

As it is smaller than the .22 Short I am wondering if it might be a Flobert cartridge. 4mm was common, but they went as small as 2.34mm (.09 caliber!). What I don't see is that Union Cartridge ever made Flobert rounds.

These were used for "Parlor Pistols" fired in folk's living rooms.

villagenut · Apr 27, 2015

Thanks all for your input. I will show a few better pics to show size difference. The one in question is on the low side of being a .22. The sizes here are in mm. with one showing the inch measure. The larger one is 1/4 inch or 8mm.I would have thought that to be a .22. The smaller one slides right into the larger one , being just 5mm. in diameter. Hope this helps, thanks,vn

villagenut · Apr 27, 2015

I found this old cap gun at this same property. Am in the middle of cleaning it up but just checked on it and found a hole at the barrell that may fit the small caliber casing. Not really sure how the old cap guns worked, but this is an early one I believe. Will need more tank time for sure...heavily covered. Not sure if there is any relation to the casing or not.

NOLA_Ken · Apr 28, 2015

Before seein the measurements with the ruler I had thought the larger one was a .22 short.....If the smaller one is right around 5mm that will make it a .22 short, the larger one being around 8mm diameter is interesting, I would think off hand it's a .32 rimfire, which went out of major production around WW2. If you can, get some calipers and give us an accurate measurement of length and inside diameter in mm?

villagenut · Apr 29, 2015

The larger casing is 8 mm diameter and 9mm at the rim, 10 mm long.
The smaller o casing is 5 mm diameter and 10 mm long.
I had always thought that the larger one was a .22, but obviously I was wrong now that I am being schooled here. Just not a gun guy, I reckon.So now I am curious about the two, not just the smaller one. Do I have a .32 and a .22 ? When I had researched the larger one many years ago when it was found , I saw some info on the headstamp(H) that made me believe it was from a Smith and Wesson .22 introduced at the CW time period. I suppose that if it is not a .22 then that assumption is false as well. Any ideas of age on either or both? Thanks all, vn

NOLA_Ken · Apr 30, 2015

The .32 being 10mm long would make it a .32 Extra Short. From what I saw online they were made from 1871 until around 1920 or so, and there weren't too many guns specifically chambered for the round. A couple very notable ones were the Protector Palm Pistol and the Remington Magazine Pistol. Both very neat guns, and it's a fairly rare cartridge to find.