Heavy Brass (New pics added)

[CrustyClad]

Found this today, it was about 6" down, I have no clue what it could be, but in the same area i was also getting large cast iron or steel fragments, I wish I would of kept some of the iron pieces too.... These pieces were all found out in the middle of a large pasture...

Thanks for the help....

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Mindcrime1988... CrustyClad's fuze's "upper" side may have too much damage for recognition. So, please post a close-up photo of showing that side of yours, and I'll send all of the posted photos to my retired EOD Colonel friend, who I hope will be able to give us the "exact, specific" ID of that 20th-Century fuze.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Yes, you were on the right track, and I publicly gave you credit. (See post #15 in this discussion.)

I'll be interested to see what it turns out to be, If it's a WW2 era shell it seems an odd find in a pasture here in the states.....

 

[CrustyClad]

Ok I have been doing alot of research on this area, that the fuse was found and the are was indeed a bombing range during WWII sheck out this link, http://www.sierraoutdoorrecreation.com/Areas/Spenceville_Wildlife_Area.cfm

(The first discovery of copper ore in this area was in 1863 but the percentage of mineral was too low, and mining expenses to high to sustain the mine. After several start, the mine finally closed for good in 1918. But the road provided access from Wheetland to Smartville and the little community sustained on an agricultural basis until 1941. In its heyday, approximately 350 residents lived nearby and the town supported a church, Sabbath school, a public school, and a Good Templars Lodge whose goal was to reduce alcohol consumption. In a mining town, no less.

The mine has been fenced off and the grounds are being reclaimed. The mine pit contained 6-million cubic feet of highly acidic water. The pit was drained, soil was placed over the tailings, and native vegetation was planted.

Several homesteads prospered in the rolling foothills and remnants can still be found.

The US Army purchased this area and the site served as a practice bombing range during World War II. The little town served as a mock-German town and was used for training troops in fighting in small communities. West of town several concrete bunkers served troops looking for air attacks from Japan. Several of the bunker structures remain.

In 1962 the military deeded the lands to California resource managers to form the Spenceville Wildlife Area. )

 

[PChammer]

I'd say, go back to where you dug it, and pick up the iron, that may help id it..... still think maybe part of an old artillery fuse, BUT I've been known to be wrong on occasion..,..... Good luck with the id though.....

Nice call

 

[mindcrime1988]

Here is the other side y'all requested. As you can tell there's not much to distinguish it from the one CrustyClad has shown.

 

[CrustyClad]

Thanks Mindcrime now all I have to do is find out what the bomb or ordinance looks like that this came from, I am going this weekend to see if i can find all of the iron fragments that were around the site.... To get more clue's

 

[timekiller]

I'm going with a time fuze then And this is the part I think you have (pics. below).
Take Care,
Pete,
Time Fuzes

Time fuzes cause a shell to function a specified amount of time after it is fired. Time fuzes are used on most types of projectiles including explosive, chemical, APERS, shrapnel, and illumination shells. There are three types of time fuzes: powder train time fuzes, mechanical time fuzes, and electrical time fuzes. Powder train time fuzes are the earliest type; they were used through WW2. To set the time a fuze will burn, either a small hole is punched through the side of the fuze (Figure 42 far left) or a ring containing part of the powder train is turned (Figure 42). Both types are ignited by the acceleration of being fired.



Figure 42 Powder train time fuzes. From left to right: 15-second time fuze {1898}, M1914-1915 31-second time fuze, sectioned and outside {WWI}, and M1907M 21-second time, sectioned and outside fuze {WWI}. Note: All of theses fuzes also contain components that cause detonation on imact.

 

[timekiller]

The fuse would go on this type of artillery. The fuse worked both way either on impact or time if it had not hit yet.

Shrapnel Shells

Shrapnel shells are another form of antipersonnel shells. They were first developed by Henry Shrapnel in the 1780s and were originally called case shot. Shrapnel shells were phased out of use by most countries by the end of WW2. Modern (post-1900) shrapnel shells are are filled with lead balls in a matrix of resin. The lead balls are called shrapnel (fragments from any other type of shell are shell fragments, not shrapnel). The shells are time fuzed and have an expelling charge that causes the balls to be expelled out the front of the shell above the target. The balls then spread out and hit the target. Figure 31 shows a photo of a shrapnel shell and a diagram of how they work.



Figure 31 3.8-inch shrapnel shell (left) {WWI} and diagram showing how a shrapnel shell functions (right).

Antipersonnel Shells

Antipersonnel shells, or APERS shells, are an improvement on shrapnel shells loaded with flechettes instead of lead balls. When the shell explodes, thousands of flechettes are forced out of the front, creating a lethal hail of little darts. APERS shells can be set to go off just after leaving the muzzle of the gun or at a specified distance by turning the dial on the time fuze in the nose of the projectile. Figure 32 shows a diagram of an APERS shell.

 

[CrustyClad]

Thanks Time killer that is very possible of what it is, I found a few pieces of what looks like the refiling at the bottom of the shell I will post pics later.. Thanks

 

[timekiller]

Thanks Time killer that is very possible of what it is, I found a few pieces of what looks like the refiling at the bottom of the shell I will post pics later.. Thanks

Yea I even counted the treads on yours, they match with the time fuse quite well. The band is call a drive band should be copper or a alloyed of.
Take Care,
Pete,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_band

 

[CrustyClad]

Was able to get out and do a little bit of detecting at the spot i found the brass piece and i also found some pieces of the drive band....

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

That reminds me of the shrapnel bits that show up on our beaches. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,124889.0.html

 

[CrustyClad]

That does look very similar

 

[Capt'n Rusty]

Trying to discover age and location

I know this is an old thread but I found it looking for information on what I think might be what you are talking about here. I will attach some pics I recently took. I appreciate the feedback.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

It is a 20th-century steel-bodied artillery shell. The steel body has been very heavily corroded by salt. The copperbrass sabot ("driving band") which encircles the steel body is only slightly affected by the salt.

The copperbrass band sabot shows rifling-grooves made by the cannon's barrel during firing, so your shell is definitely a fired one.

Your photo cut off the top of the brass fuze's body. Need some "fullview" close-up photos of the fuze to have any hope of identifying the specific version of fuze.

Where did you find it? (US, France, Germany, Italy, etc.)

 

[Capt'n Rusty]

Found it on an island off Key West Florida

Here are a few more pics

It is a 20th-century steel-bodied artillery shell. The steel body has been very heavily corroded by salt. The copperbrass sabot ("driving band") which encircles the steel body is only slightly affected by the salt.

The copperbrass band sabot shows rifling-grooves made by the cannon's barrel during firing, so your shell is definitely a fired one.

Your photo cut off the top of the brass fuze's body. Need some "fullview" close-up photos of the fuze to have any hope of identifying the specific version of fuze.

Where did you find it? (US, France, Germany, Italy, etc.)

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

As I mentioned in my prior post, your shell and fuze is definitely from the 20th-Century. I can't find a 100%-exact match for it in my fuze photo files. But the rotating, numbered ring and the distinctive form of wrench-slots on it are very similar to a World War One era US artillery long-range Timefuze, for heavy-caliber Antipersonnel artillery shells.

Time-fuzed shells were intended to burst in the air, for antipersonnel effect ...instead of having an impact (or "point-detonation") fuze, which was used strictly in high-explosive shells for blowing up a fortification's walls, or for armor-piercing. I notice that your Time-fuze's markings go up to 45 seconds ...which may help me get a more specific ID of it for you, eventually. I'll have to ask a friend of mine who is a retired US Navy Ordnance officer.

 

[Capt'n Rusty]

Is it possible that it was used near Ft Jefferson?

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Yours was used as artillery practice. Insofar as I've ever heard, the only 20th-Century combat actions which occurred in the Florida Keys were antisubmarine actions. Of course, Antipersonnel shells (such as yours) would not be fired at a submarine. Instead, for that kind of action, impact-fuzed ("point-detonation") shells would be used, and/or armor-piercing Solid Shot projectiles.

 

[Capt'n Rusty]

Do you know what country it belongs to?