Help me with My whiskey bottle

[Older The Better]

I had an idea for a Christmas present, my dad has a outbuilding the previous owner made into a bar, I thought I’d start getting him some authentic whiskey bottles to put behind the bar… I switched ideas but already had a bid on this bottle. I had 30$ on it and someone out bid me. In a moment of stupidity (I think) I kept raising my bid because I was curious what the other person offered, I topped them at 89$. Then I realized damn I didn’t want to pay that much! I thought surely someone will come back and out bid me and they can have it. Nobody did and so now I have it.

I decided not to give it to my dad because I was afraid he’d throw it out or break it thinking it was just a cheap bottle. I’m definitely not saying what I paid haha, anyway after all that back story I really didn’t do any homework and I’m not sure what I got.

I’m doubtful it’s really from 1868 but I guess it’s possible, from what I remember about bottles I’m thinking late 1800’s to early 1900’s. I’m not sure if cabinet whiskey is truly whiskey or some type of medicine. Also I assume 89$ is probably a pretty steep price but maybe I’m wrong… can anyone point me in the right direction with what exactly I’ve got

 

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[GaRebel1861]

I’ll tell you what I think I’d do if I wanted to gift it. I’d wash it out thoroughly inside. Protect the label and fill it with liquor and make sure it was sealed up with a good cork. If he sips on it, he sips on it. If not, it will display well - JMO.

 

[Red-Coat]

Nice old bottle. You’re correct that it isn’t from 1868. That’s perhaps the foundation date for the company or maybe even the vintage for the whiskey itself, since Rothschild were initially rectifiers and wholesale liquor dealers before becoming distillers. First trade directory mention of them is in 1874 in Philadelphia, PA but they didn’t have a listed address in Buffalo, NY until the 1890s. The last listing for Buffalo, NY seems to be 1918 and then they only have listings in Philadelphia, PA until 1921.


1874: Company listed as Rothschild Bros. at 219 South Front in Philadelphia, PA.

1875: Company listed as comprising Edward L. Rothschild, Henry Rothschild, and Samuel Rothschild.

1876: Also listed at 218 South Water in Philadelphia, PA.

1881: No more listings at 219 South Front, and address is now given as 214 South Front in Philadelphia, PA.

c.1890: Samuel Rothschild has moved to Buffalo, NY but is still shown to be a part of the Philadelphia, PA company, and the partnership includes two new members: Paul Steinberg and Moses Westheimer.

1893-1901: Company listed at 40 Pearl in Buffalo, NY (first listing) as well as the Philadelphia, PA address.

By 1900: The company now comprises Henry Rothschild, Moses Wertheimer & Paul Steinberg only.

1903-1908: The Buffalo, NY address is now listed as 40-46 Pearl.

By 1910: Abraham Rothschild replaces Henry Rothschild as a partner.

1911: The Buffalo, NY address is now listed as 54 Pearl.

1914: Paul Steinberg and Moses Westheimer, now trading alone under the name “Rothschild Bros.” as rectifiers and wholesale liquor dealers at 214 South Front Philadelphia, PA are prosecuted for shipping adulterated and mis-labelled liquor from Pennsylvania to a customer in NY State (the offences having been committed in 1913).

1918: Last listing at the Buffalo, NY address of 54 Pearl.

1921: Last listing of Rothschild Bros. at the Philadelphia, PA address of 214 South Front, with Paul Steinberg as sole proprietor.

 

[Red-Coat]

PS: "Cabinet" whiskey is not really a "type", but a kind of branding used by several companies as marketing tool to suggest their whiskey was of a quality to be cherished.

 

[NJKLAGT]

Yep you're right about the age, very late 19th century to early 20th. I'd estimate 1897-1910. Cool bottle!

 

[metrotec]

Try Kovels bottle catalog

 

[ole miss rebel]

Didn't know the "redshield" jew bankers were in the Whiskey business too, lol. Nice bottle, with a surviving label. You paid a fair market price. I'd fill & cork it as mentioned above.

 

[Older The Better]

Thanks for the research red coat it helps enhance the story behind my bottle and a tight age range from njklagt and ole miss rebel for making me feel less stupid for paying so much for an empty bottle.

Out of curiosity, my assumption was a bottle from 1868 would likely be embossed and the paper label was a hint it was later… is this correct or have paper labels around for as long as bottles have?

 

[NJKLAGT]

Out of curiosity, my assumption was a bottle from 1868 would likely be embossed and the paper label was a hint it was later… is this correct or have paper labels around for as long as bottles have?

A bottle from 1868 wouldn't be "more likely" to be embossed. For millennia, and in recent centuries, bottles were almost never embossed. Although I can't be certain, I think some of the earliest embossed bottles (where the mould itself was carved/engraved to take on molten glass and create a negative image in the finished product (this excludes applied seals)), those came during the very early 1800s, with those "Cullen" egg bottles and others. Before that, you see only colour and form mostly, not so much embossing as we more commonly think of it. Embossed bottles are often associated with 'quality goods', and if the proprietor could afford to have a mould or slug plate made for their product, then that was one option to better advertise their product. Some diggers swear by this association, and when they are digging a privy pit or town dump full of "slicks" (unembossed bottles), they are quick to determine that the town and its people weren't as affluent. Bottles were expensive, the deposits on our beer bottles today are nothing compared to the past. So people would reuse bottles a lot, sometimes they wouldn't return the bottle and instead keep it for home use. How would I know that this soda bottle wasn't full of bleach or some dangerous chemical? A paper label! And you're right, a paper label does not necessarily mean it's a later bottle, paper labels may have been used for as long as glass bottles have been made (you also sometimes see intentional scratching/etching of letters or words in old glass). Paper labels were affordable and easier to manufacture in quantity, and you could use new labels to conceal any existing embossing or labelling. Here's a cool old photo I like. You can see that there are labels over top of labels, damaged labels covered up with new labels, labels that are stamped or altered to indicate the latest contents, etc etc. It's also interesting that this photo was taken around 1930, but you can see bottles on the shelf from the 1890s! Beer bottles filled with furniture polish, medicine bottles filled with bleach, a haphazard assortment of products in mismatched containers, it must have taken forever to do your shopping and you'd better have hoped the labels were up to date!

Edit: forgot the darn picture
Edit2: and of course there ARE mould embossed bottles from antiquity (example Ennion from Ancient Rome, beautiful stuff) but I was mostly talking about embossing in a more modern context (business, owner, contents, etc.). Historically, and today, the vast majority of glass vessels are not embossed.

 

[epackage]

ROTHSCHILD BROS.
Buffalo, NY.
1893-1918

as mentioned above, clean it and fill it with whiskey as stated, great little bottle with that label

 

[Older The Better]

I’d like to it’s got a little crack in the shoulder, is there a way to seal that without ruining the bottle?

 

[Older The Better]

Love the detailed info

A bottle from 1868 wouldn't be "more likely" to be embossed. For millennia, and in recent centuries, bottles were almost never embossed. Although I can't be certain, I think some of the earliest embossed bottles (where the mould itself was carved/engraved to take on molten glass and create a negative image in the finished product (this excludes applied seals)), those came during the very early 1800s, with those "Cullen" egg bottles and others. Before that, you see only colour and form mostly, not so much embossing as we more commonly think of it. Embossed bottles are often associated with 'quality goods', and if the proprietor could afford to have a mould or slug plate made for their product, then that was one option to better advertise their product. Some diggers swear by this association, and when they are digging a privy pit or town dump full of "slicks" (unembossed bottles), they are quick to determine that the town and its people weren't as affluent. Bottles were expensive, the deposits on our beer bottles today are nothing compared to the past. So people would reuse bottles a lot, sometimes they wouldn't return the bottle and instead keep it for home use. How would I know that this soda bottle wasn't full of bleach or some dangerous chemical? A paper label! And you're right, a paper label does not necessarily mean it's a later bottle, paper labels may have been used for as long as glass bottles have been made (you also sometimes see intentional scratching/etching of letters or words in old glass). Paper labels were affordable and easier to manufacture in quantity, and you could use new labels to conceal any existing embossing or labelling. Here's a cool old photo I like. You can see that there are labels over top of labels, damaged labels covered up with new labels, labels that are stamped or altered to indicate the latest contents, etc etc. It's also interesting that this photo was taken around 1930, but you can see bottles on the shelf from the 1890s! Beer bottles filled with furniture polish, medicine bottles filled with bleach, a haphazard assortment of products in mismatched containers, it must have taken forever to do your shopping and you'd better have hoped the labels were up to date!

Edit: forgot the darn picture
Edit2: and of course there ARE mould embossed bottles from antiquity (example Ennion from Ancient Rome, beautiful stuff) but I was mostly talking about embossing in a more modern context (business, owner, contents, etc.). Historically, and today, the vast majority of glass vessels are not embossed.

 

[Red_desert]

Pretty bottle!

 

[Back-of-the-boat]

Low & Slow Rock and Rye whiskey at Wal-mart has a cork that might fit your bottle.