Please post a fake that you see on ebay and tell us why
eBay item number: 227214362636
Hi, unclemac ... I'll be glad to ... here's a current offering on eBay, 18 bids @$355, with a day+ to go. I contacted the seller early on, explaining & pointing out the problems with this "coin". I then suggested he contact Dan Sedwick, (sedwickcoins.com), as Dan is well respected & is recognized world-wide as an expert in Spanish colonial cobs.
I contribute any fakes I find to Dan for his "MODERN PIRATES LIST" (known fake cobs). He already had this copy on list (of 100s) of fakes. Two of the (partial) listed fakes on his website were contributed by me.
As to this 8 reales, it is presented as a POTOSI MINT, 8 REALES, 1667 (date).
All design elements on cobs (including the crown, letter fonts, cross, castle & lion design, & all other design elements) had to be approved by the King (or king's rep.).
We'll start at the top here, going counter-clockwise:
1). Incorrect crown design for this issue (or any other, for that matter)
2). Note the "P" for Potosi, mint mark (incorrect font)
3). Assayer mark "V/R" (this is a glaring error) ... The correct assayer for Potosi in 1667 is assayer Antonio de Ergueta, "E" initial mark (served from 1651 - 1678). Assayer "V/R" did not serve at Potosi until 1684 (through 1697). Also, again, the font is incorrect
4). Another "glaring " error...the "Waves" design: Notice that the waves flow downward under the (667) date.
All Potosi cobs with the "Pillars & Waves" design have the waves flowing upward under the date. Lima, Peru mint design has the downward wave flow, as is on this "coin". No exceptions. This wave flow difference is an easy way to distinguish between the two mints. Potosi (up in the mountains)...waves UP under the date. Lima, (down by the sea)...waves DOWN under the date. the artisan of this fake apparently didn't know this, & seems to have taken his designs from both Potosi & Lima minted cobs.
5). The date: a 3-digit date in this position, for this (1667, Potosi) issue, is incorrect (Later cobs will have 3 digits in this position, but not in 1667). The correct date display is only the last 2 digits ( 6 7 ). NOTE: date displays on cobs can vary from 4 full digits, last 3 or last 2 digits, depending on the mint & year of issue. for Potosi, in 1667, the correct date displays are: 4 digits in the legend (edge, bottom, 6:00 - 8:00 position), last 3 digits, under the cross, last 2 digits, above the waves, center, bottom. (see attached pic of a genuine Potosi 1667 8 reales)
6). Castle & lion design is (clownishly) incorrect.
7). The lack of metal flow in the fields, & the overall "mushy" edges of the designs indicate a piece that was cast in a mold.
All Spanish cobs were struck by hand, between dies. None were ever mold-cast.
To the credit of the maker of this fake: The person who made this used the correct mix of copper & silver, closely matching the Spanish Royal Spec. (.931 pure). The weight of this piece is close enough to fool many, as is the overall appearance. Again,, 99% of professional coin dealers know very little, if any, about these coins. "Looks like.." & " Looks good to me..." is not authentication. I've collected & studied these coins for around 30 years, & consider myself as just above "novice".
This fake, however, to me, & now, to you, is an easy call.
Lastly, I've attached one of my drawings of a complete die design for this "Pillars & Waves" design. I'm no artist, but I tried to make the design features (lions, castles, crown ) resemble the original design. These designs will change from year-to-year, & even may have different designs in the same year, as dies wore out & were replaced. The lettering (on my drawing) is a Microsoft Paint font.
If you have any questionable cobs, I'd be happy to try & sort them for you. If you have any questions at all, contact me through this site.
I hope this info is of help. I can post more examples if you wish.
