How Come Dowsers are Millionaires?

[Treasure_Hunter]

TH'r, and as I have told you, I'm not asking you to prove anything. I'm asking the links/reports to prove something.

I have no links or reports to give you, go ahead and unsubscribe....

If you want to buy an airline ticket to Orlando I will show you how it works...

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

I have no links or reports to give you, .....

If I'm not mistaken, you alluded to this "Betz report" as showing conclusive data to the validity of dowsing ? No ? If you don't believe that (or any report you guys can offer) shows conclusive proof of dowsing, then you're right: The wager can't be to you.

I'll have to admit though, that I amazed that you don't have any links to reports showing it works. Or perhaps you do, but .... don't care to have them studied by skeptics ? I dunno.

.... If you want to buy an airline ticket to Orlando I will show you how it works...

I will agree to do so, on the following condition: That we agree ahead of time on test protocols/safegaurd measures. They will be mutually agreed upon criterias. And if your dowsing fails the test, then you reimburse me the cost of the flight, lodging, missed work, etc....

Like the offer to Art & digger, this is fail-safe to you. Because since you will no doubt pass it, there's nothing for you to loose. My part in the wager, would be to publically state that it has been done, passed tests riddled with safeguards, etc...

Deal ?

 

[aarthrj3811]

How Come Dowsers ARENT Millionaires?

First off, Im not knocking anyone that does this.

But I gotta wonder how successful dowsing really is?

I see Posts all the time talking about "Gold right here buried in a box"...Really??

Are there any posts that actually can back up these Claims? I would think if it were that practical or useful, people doing this would have a fortune the first few times they go out.

Where are the Success Stories for all these Claims?

Yes I have Dowsed with guys that were pretty will off. They lived in million dollar houses and drove fancy cars. Heck , I don't know how they got the money and didn’t ask...Sometimes I think that I may have retired to early...I have not saw a post where anyone made that claim....Art

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

If I'm not mistaken, you alluded to this "Betz report" as showing conclusive data to the validity of dowsing ? No ? If you don't believe that (or any report you guys can offer) shows conclusive proof of dowsing, then you're right: The wager can't be to you.

(((( No where will you find I said I have links to or "alluded" to any report ))))

I'll have to admit though, that I amazed that you don't have any links to reports showing it works. Or perhaps you do, but .... don't care to have them studied by skeptics ? I dunno.

(((( Implying I am lying?? Not a good move... I personally don't care one iota if you believe or not, I got involved because some including you were violating rules including mocking other members )))))

I will agree to do so, on the following condition: That we agree ahead of time on test protocols/safegaurd measures. They will be mutually agreed upon criterias. And if your dowsing fails the test, then you reimburse me the cost of the flight, lodging, missed work, etc....

((((((( I will not reimburse you 1 penny for anything, I will locate cables, you dig them up, you pay all fines if we are arrested for digging up or damaging any utilities ))))))

 

[Asmbandits]

I find it strange that one would have so much interest in disproving something that they wouldn't even try, why do you care do disprove it? Why is it so important to you too disprove? were you bullied by dowsers as a child?

Its humorous that someone who hasn't even tried dowsing would think that they somehow be the one to disprove it. In the course of the tens of thousands of years it been around no one has been able to disproved it, yet for some reason you feel enlightened enough to believe that you and your ideas and opinions will come along and set everyone straight? I remember when I first heard about dowsing I tried it and had my wife place my wedding band in one of three empty cigarette boxes while I was out of the room, I was able to correctly find it 3 out of 4 times and that was all the proof I needed. You should try it possibly you might find what your looking for, just not the way you wanted to.

 

[Digger]

And it is because of people like you Tom that people ignore that so called contest. Some people will attempt to explain away any evidence so you're simply wasting people's time.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey Nitric...In that test only one rod would swing to the target. We have always told people that Dowsing does not work the same for everyone. With my oldest son both rods will swing and point at the target. He has to go to the target in a completely different way than I do. Is that guy a good dowser. I think he is because he knows what his rods are telling him...Art

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

Why does there have to be a wager? Why can't there just be a report discussed? ...

Because otherwise, gauranteed, if I pointed shortcoming (alternative explanations) to the reports, they would be summarily dismissed. So what's in it for me, if it's gauranteed to go utterly nowhere? Why should a skeptic interest himself in reading it with an open mind, if the other side is un-willing to be open-minded?

Remember, it wasn't me offering those report(s) as proof of dowsing. It was others . Art and digger each listed some reports claiming to bolster dowsing. So how much fair can it be ? I'm not even the one picking the reports !

 

[Tom_in_CA]

(((( No where will you find I said I have links to or "alluded" to any report ))))

Ok, my bad then. I thought you'd offered up (or approved or shown support of) the reports being mentioned. If not, my bad. I guess this only gets extended to Art & digger.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I find it strange that one would have so much interest in disproving something that they wouldn't even try,

Already answered in #306

.... Its humorous that someone who hasn't even tried dowsing would think that they somehow be the one to disprove it..

Nope, not disproving dowsing. Only attempting to disprove that a singular report (any that art or digger chooses), does not conclusively show dowsing. That's not to say that dowsing doesn't work, or that there isn't ANOTHER report out there that does. It's only a look at a single report.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

And it is because of people like you Tom that people ignore that so called contest. Some people will attempt to explain away any evidence so you're simply wasting people's time.

I can't understand what's unfair about this offer. Heck, it was even pointed out that the Randi org. hasn't agreed to test any dowser for 20 yrs. Right ? Now .... it's beginning to occur to me that it's not the skeptics who are the ones declining tests. This post is a case-example of that.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

2.25 hrs. left Any takers?

 

[Asmbandits]

I can't understand what's unfair about this offer. Heck, it was even pointed out that the Randi org. hasn't agreed to test any dowser for 20 yrs. Right ? Now .... it's beginning to occur to me that it's not the skeptics who are the ones declining tests. This post is a case-example of that.

It's hard when you fail to do the simplest of tests yourself, as in testing dowsing for yourself. I think it would be a much more balanced debate if you tested your own theroys yourself then discussed the results instead of focusing on getting others to provide them.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

It's hard when you fail to do the simplest of tests yourself, as in testing dowsing for yourself. I think it would be a much more balanced debate if you tested your own theroys yourself then discussed the results instead of focusing on getting others to provide them.

answered in post #306 & #324. You would summarily dismiss any results of my efforts, if my results showed dowsing didn't work. So what's the use?

So since someone else has ALREADY tested it , and found the results to conclude that dowsing does appear to work, then .... please tell me, what's wrong with discussing those results ? Afterall, it was the pro-dowsers that put them out there, as proof, to begin with. Not me Do they stand-behind these assertions, or don't they ?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I can't understand what's unfair about this offer. Heck, it was even pointed out that the Randi org. hasn't agreed to test any dowser for 20 yrs. Right ? Now .... it's beginning to occur to me that it's not the skeptics who are the ones declining tests. This post is a case-example of that.

What you continue to ignore is we have nothing to prove to you, we know it works. I myself have shown maybe a hundred people over the years and many did it their selves after showing them how to do it.

Having been able to do it for 25 years and doing so day in and day out for almost 15 years for telcom company I have nothing to prove to you...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

What you continue to ignore is we have nothing to prove to you,..

Hmm, ok, then why were those reports linked as proof to the pro- position ?

... we know it works..

Correct, which is why the reports were said to have good past-testing, showing that very thing. Agreed.

... I myself have shown maybe a hundred people over the years and many did it their selves after showing them how to do it.

Having been able to do it for 25 years and doing so day in and day out for almost 15 years for telcom company I have nothing to prove to you...

And as said, I'm not doubting the success that dowswer here list off. My question is (and I'd hoped the reports would shed light on), is "can those apparent results be attributed to any other factor, or can't they?"

Even if an individual report I agreed to study can be found lacking in that dept, it doesn't mean that a) dowsing doesn't work, or that b) other such studies might be found to be air-tight.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey Nitric....I am using this thread to teach...I think the guy in the test you was following the rays that are omitted by objects. There are also rings omitted by objects. I have taught my sub conscious mind to only respond to signals that are in a north-south or east- west direction. That was the easiest way for me.
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Some of these web sites may not be there but were when I saved them. As you can see there is lot to learn about Dowsing other than taking rods and yelling ya-hoo...Art

 

[Asmbandits]

answered in post #306 & #324. You would summarily dismiss any results of my efforts, if my results showed dowsing didn't work. So what's the use?

So since someone else has ALREADY tested it , and found the results to conclude that dowsing does appear to work, then .... please tell me, what's wrong with discussing those results ? Afterall, it was the pro-dowsers that put them out there, as proof, to begin with. Not me Do they stand-behind these assertions, or don't they ?

You fail to see that the way your addressing this is accomplishing nothing for your case, almost everything you say can be flipped around and pertain to each side of the debate. You writing off your own ability to test your own theories due to fear of bias is no different from us performing tests and you being bias of our results. Ive never heard of anyone trying to scientifically prove a theory that was not willing to do just that. Bias is a part of science there will always be someone questioning your results, this then leads to further understanding of what is being questioned as it fuels us to go out and prove the bias wrong with our own research, resulting in a more refined and correct answer.. I think your trying to take the easy way out as you know it can't be diss proven so you would rather play this game of run around with everyone instead of sacking up and coming to your own conclusions.