HQ Ship of the 17 th Lancers ( Dragoons) sank on rocks in 1797

[SADS 669]

Trying to find this shipwreck.

Info that I know in the negative is listed below, anyone got any ideas how to turn those into positives?

1. Ship Caledonia ( not listed in Lloyds list) I think was probably an unlisted transport hulk residing in Jamaica for years before.

2. Crew all rescued by the Britannia of Bristol, pretty sure Clutsam ( Clutfam) Captain, cant ID which exact Britannia from Lloyds, but probably Clutsams, owner Protheroe.

3. Looks like it probably sank north of St Nicola Mole ( present day NW Haiti) after hitting ? rocks?. No idea how to find which rocks? Pursuing Log books in the UK for both Ships?

4. Can't find the correct Caledonia listed anywhere so no chance of finding the Captain?i Caledonia heading from Jamaica to London.

5. Good news, this silver snuff box was in the quartermasters pocket, now resides in the Royal Lancers museum..

Any ideas very welcome



Pm me to give you further info there is no room to mention here.

 

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[Blak bart]

Do you know length and beam SADS ?

 

[agflit]

Sads...

Excerpt from the book " Historical record of the 17th Lancers...


After losing many officers and soldiers in the West Indies, the regiment embarked for England, where it arrived in August, 1797; the head-quarter ship, the Caledonia, foundered at sea; the men were saved by boats, and taken on board the Britannia, of Bristol; but the baggage and regimental books were lost. On its arrival in England the regiment received about four hundred recruits, also a large draft from the Eighteenth Light Dragoons, and it was soon restored to a state of efficiency.

Dated 1797

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/56409/56409-h/56409-h.htm

 

[agflit]

Interesting...just came across a letter from the surgeon on HMS "Dictator", dated 28 July 1796.

Letter Signed by A.W.Farbier[?], surgeon, to Sir John Thomas Duckworth, Commodore and Commander in Chief, representing to him the case of “Mr Jerdan, Surgeons Mate of His Majesty’s Ship Dictator”, requesting the issue of “an Order” so that he can have medical assistance. 1 page 12 x 8 inches, folds, in good condition, with with a blank piece torn from the lower right corner, and a small blank piece torn from the lower left corner. Docketed on receipt. Naval Hospital, Mole St. Nicholas, 28 July 1796. Documents from this disastrous attempt to hold Santo Domingo are uncommon. During the five years of British occupation not less than 20,000 men were lost from disease alone.

https://www.historicalautographs.co...mingo-british-expeditionary-force-1796-13021/

 

[agflit]

49th Regiment / 1st Royal Berkshire
1796-07-01On 1 July 1796, England. The remains of the companies from St Domingo were at sea in transit for England

 

[SADS 669]

Thanks so much to you both, no idea of size of the Caledonia, only the name, its not listed on Lloyds as all of those can be accounted for, hence my suspicion it was a transport hulk……

In the history of the regiment in central America, its quoted as hitting rocks.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

One thing about British army officers of this period - they loved to write their memoirs (if they lived to do it). I wonder if there is one or more autobiographies written by regimental officers that mention this incident.

Weren't there some "military" newspapers (private publications decided to the services) of this era?

Naval & Military Gazette and Weekly Chronicle of the United Service in British Newspaper Archive

'The bad luck at sea which had marked the departure from England attended the passage home. The headquarter ship, the Caledonia, foundered at sea, and though the men were saved the baggage and regimental books were lost. Hence the scantiness of information respecting the first forty years of the life of the regiment."

A History of the 17th Lancers (Duke of Cambridge's Own) : John William Fortescue : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Cap "badges" of the 17th Lancers - the "Death or Glory Boys." I had them made into cufflinks a number of years ago - I used to wear them to loan committee meetings.


Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[agflit]

Hester Great Britain The ship was wrecked on the Heneaga Reef. Her crew were rescued. She was on a voyage from Saint-Domingue to London. ( Year unkown, 1790's)

CHAPTER VIII.

Heneagas. In a south-westerly direction from the Caicos lie the two islands of Great and Little Inagua, or, as, to accommodate them to an English pronunciation, they are now generally called, Hencauga or Heneaga. The original is a Spanish compound word, signifying that “water is to be found there;" which, to those who frequent the neighbouring scenes of fat and desert keys and sands, is an object of no small consequence.

Great Heneaga has been hitherto but little known from any other circumstance than the number of shipwrecks which it has occasioned by its position at the mouth of the windward

passage, the frequented straits between Cuba and Saint Domingo. A dangerous reef lies at some distance off the shore; and, from the strength and uncertainty of the currents, vessels are continually and unexpectedly driven upon it.

it. . In the month of August, in the year 1800, the Lowestoffe man-of-war, and eight Jamaica ships, under her convoy, were unfortunately cast away and destroyed on this treacherous coast.
A Tour Through the British West Indies, in the Years 1802 and 1803, Giving a ... - Daniel MacKinnen - Google Llibres

 

[agflit]

hmmm....wonder if it's the correct Britannia??

Captains' logs, including: ASTREA (1797 Jan 25-1798 Jan 31). BRITANNIA (1797 Mar 24-1798... | The National Archives

 

[agflit]

Well THIS is interesting...only "Britannia" of record being built between 1736 and 1840?.

West Indies expedition (1795–1796)
Captain Thomas Barrow acquired a letter of marque on 16 October 1795.[3]

In 1795 Admiral Hugh Cloberry Christian mounted and expedition to the West Indies. The EIC chartered 16 vessels to the British Government to augment the Navy Transport Board's own transports.[7]

The expedition sailed on 6 October, 16 November, and 9 December, but weather forced the vessels to put back.[8] Britannia sailed from Portsmouth on 29 January 1796,[2] but had to put back. The fleet finally successfully sailed on 20 March to invade St Lucia, with troops under Lieutenant-General Sir Ralph Abercromby.

See also: Transport vessels for the British expedition to the West Indies (1795)
Britannia was at Barbados by 14 April, Martinique on 24 April, and St Lucia on 28 April.[2] St Lucia surrendered to the British on 25 May.[9] The British went on to capture Saint Vincent and Grenada.
Britannia returned to Martinique on 5 June and was at Saint-Pierre, Martinique, on 13 June. She arrived back at The Downs on 8 August.[2]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_(1772_EIC_ship)

 

[SADS 669]

Ag, I am pretty sure “ our” Britannia was a sugar transport not an HMS ship, it was out of Bristol, owned by Protheroe built in 1794 and sold by him to a London merchant in 1807. This exert below is from the history of the 17 th Dragoons…..

I do think the Caledonia is one of the 1795 unnamed transports though…

The nickname of 'Horse Marines' dates from this time. Its exact origins is unknown - but the amount of time the regiment spent on the waves was not in dispute. Indeed, the sea was to play yet another cruel trick on the regiment when its headquarter ship foundered on rocks on the way home in 1797. All of the men were saved, but their baggage and regimental books were all lost.

 

[SADS 669]

One thing about British army officers of this period - they loved to write their memoirs (if they lived to do it). I wonder if there is one or more autobiographies written by regimental officers that mention this incident.

Weren't there some "military" newspapers (private publications decided to the services) of this era?

Naval & Military Gazette and Weekly Chronicle of the United Service in British Newspaper Archive

'The bad luck at sea which had marked the departure from England attended the passage home. The headquarter ship, the Caledonia, foundered at sea, and though the men were saved the baggage and regimental books were lost. Hence the scantiness of information respecting the first forty years of the life of the regiment."

A History of the 17th Lancers (Duke of Cambridge's Own) : John William Fortescue : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Cap "badges" of the 17th Lancers - the "Death or Glory Boys." I had them made into cufflinks a number of years ago - I used to wear them to loan committee meetings.


Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

OB,

Thank you so much, I sent you a pm, When I get to the UK next I am going to take your advice and go look in lots of archives

 

[agflit]

What do we know so far?.....

According to Lloyd's list, the Britannia, Clutsam Capt, was reported to have arrived in St Mole the first week of July....

Her next appearance on Lloyd's list is arriving in Bristol the first week of Oct, 1797....

Now....where do we go from here?....me thinks...I need to find the Caledonia, leaving Jamaica in May or June....

 

[SADS 669]

Good luck with that…ha ha. Beers are on me if you can!

 

[Blak bart]

What do we know so far?.....

According to Lloyd's list, the Britannia, Clutsam Capt, was reported to have arrived in St Mole the first week of July....

Her next appearance on Lloyd's list is arriving in Bristol the first week of Oct, 1797....

Now....where do we go from here?....me thinks...I need to find the Caledonia, leaving Jamaica in May or June....

There is a source for that info....Maritime traffic and slave records, Jamaica. I have found contact info before online, but I'm coming up blank right now. I found stuff from this source at the national archives website, and I know there is a way to have some one go and search or one can go in person.....anyway I think whydadiver may know how to reach out to someone who can help there. I remember from the "ships bell found" thread that he had spent time there researching the pirate ship whyda there. They may have a departure date for the Caledonia and even more important info in there archives. Ill keep searching for my old links and web pages !!

 

[SADS 669]

Archives in the UK are playing the covid, online only card at the moment, very slow going. My buddy in the UK is trying hard though…..

Thanks so much Bart!!

 

[agflit]

There is a source for that info....Maritime traffic and slave records, Jamaica. I have found contact info before online, but I'm coming up blank right now. I found stuff from this source at the national archives website, and I know there is a way to have some one go and search or one can go in person.....anyway I think whydadiver may know how to reach out to someone who can help there. I remember from the "ships bell found" thread that he had spent time there researching the pirate ship whyda there. They may have a departure date for the Caledonia and even more important info in there archives. Ill keep searching for my old links and web pages !!

Wouldn't it be better if Sad's just bought me a plane ticket and had me rifle the archives in person?.....we should take a vote....all in favor of sads sending me on a month long vacat...errr....research mission say...'arrrrrrhhhh"

 

[Blak bart]

I think that's a great plan....I'll fly in as a consultant and you guys can pay me in rum punch !! Haaa !!

 

[SADS 669]

If you think for one second I would sic you three drunken lunatics on “ Her Majesties green pastures” think again!

 

[agflit]

lol....yup...you were right bart...he IS smarter than he looks!!! ( hands bart a $1 bill)