I'll show you mine'You show me yours

[davin]

nice.

 

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[EarnieP]

Paul,

Thought your posts were very even handed and without ambiguity.

I once sent a picture of a small stone head to Professor Michael Smith at the University of AZ. He answered that it looked like something "made in Mexico......
for tourist."

They are very good at that sort of thing, even to the point of creating aged patina. It's an art, and not necessarily without value. Not saying that's what BM has, but if not he should have it authenticated.


Hope to see you next month.

Take care,

Joe

Like most of us here (I assume) I've looked for arrow heads/points while out in the desert.
Years ago I showed my dear sister-in-law a nice specimen that I'd found.
Her response was how did I know it was real and that maybe someone had 'made it' and left it there to fool me.

Maybe so...

 

[somehiker]

Paul,

Thought your posts were very even handed and without ambiguity.

I once sent a picture of a small stone head to Professor Michael Smith at the University of AZ. He answered that it looked like something "made in Mexico......
for tourist."

They are very good at that sort of thing, even to the point of creating aged patina. It's an art, and not necessarily without value. Not saying that's what BM has, but if not he should have it authenticated.


Hope to see you next month.

Take care,

Joe

Looks like a Inuit soapstone carving, but it kinda reminded me of this....
Roman Head from Mexico


Tecaxic-Calixtlahuaca head

 

[Matthew Roberts]

A batch of Superstition gold. East side. One of Garman's old claims.

Sgtfda,
The photo(s) of the placer gold are truly impressive. I’ve found placer gold in the Superstitions but never in that quantity.

It’s really too bad the politics of the Dutchman community are what they are, otherwise we could have had some fairly interesting and rewarding conversations.

One of the few places I have seen some good indications of color is in Mill Site Canyon about a mile up from where Mill Site empties into Hewitt Canyon. Just past the Mill Site and Hewitt confluence a road runs up Mill Site on the right side of the canyon. Not quite a mile up that road begins some mining work and placer diggings. All the placer in Mill Site Canyon however does not appear to be down in the creek bottom.

Mill Site Canyon splits just above this area and if you take the left fork there are several mining sites and placer workings up to Quail Spring where a nice pool of water can be found for most of the year. Above Quail Spring Mill Site Canyon splits again and the terrain and canyon gets pretty rough.

This Mill Site canyon area is some of Robert Garman’s old workings although Garman contends he worked that area from around 1947, I believe he didn’t come on the scene there until the mid 1950's at the earliest.

Clarence O. Mitchell (Travis Marlowe) believed in the beginning the area of Hewitt and Mill Site Canyons was a key to the Stone Maps gold, mines, treasure. He had numerous conversations with Travis Tumlinson about that area and in 1954 Mitchell moved from Hawthorne, California to Apache Junction to be close to the Superstitions.

But Mitchell only stayed at AJ for a brief time. By 1956 he had moved to Queen Valley to be close to Hewitt, Mill Site, Robles, Rogers and Randolph canyons. Queen Valley is only a few miles from all those canyons.

Clarence Mitchell covered the area of Mill Site canyon from its mouth up canyon to past Quail Spring. He did not meet Robert Garman until about 1958, but was well aware that Travis Tumlinson, Wilbur Leasman and Phil Leasman had been working that area throughout the 1950’s.

There are several mining claims to the west of Mill Site over near Hardt Tank that “supposedly” are producing gold but I have been to those in the 1980’s and tried to help the owner. I know the original claim locator from his claims in the 1970's. I don't believe there is any significant mineral on those claims tho.

Matthew

 

[JohnWhite]

IF I were a man of means...If I did not have to worry about my retirement...I would solve the mystery of the Peralta stones for all of you ldm seekers and others...But sadly I am not...And if I were to do so...Many of you on here would probably give your selves a swift kick in the buttocks saying...It was so obvious...Why couldn't I see it...Like I said though...Maybe in twenty years or so...Or sooner if I can make it back to where I took a leak in Reno and find the other piece of the paragon diamond that I claim to have given away...Who knows...If God is willing...One day I may reveal all that I know of the Peralta stones, the ldm, tayopa and who knows what else... But until then... I guess I will continue to come onto this site and continue to spew a bunch of b.s. for the heck of it... There is so much for one to explore on the World Wide Web... And so much for one to learn... I just don't explore as much as I'd like because I always feel as if every move I make on the web is being tracked...Oh well... What do I know

 

[sgtfda]

Sgtfda,
The photo(s) of the placer gold are truly impressive. I’ve found placer gold in the Superstitions but never in that quantity.

It’s really too bad the politics of the Dutchman community are what they are, otherwise we could have had some fairly interesting and rewarding conversations.

One of the few places I have seen some good indications of color is in Mill Site Canyon about a mile up from where Mill Site empties into Hewitt Canyon. Just past the Mill Site and Hewitt confluence a road runs up Mill Site on the right side of the canyon. Not quite a mile up that road begins some mining work and placer diggings. All the placer in Mill Site Canyon however does not appear to be down in the creek bottom.

Mill Site Canyon splits just above this area and if you take the left fork there are several mining sites and placer workings up to Quail Spring where a nice pool of water can be found for most of the year. Above Quail Spring Mill Site Canyon splits again and the terrain and canyon gets pretty rough.

This Mill Site canyon area is some of Robert Garman’s old workings although Garman contends he worked that area from around 1947, I believe he didn’t come on the scene there until the mid 1950's at the earliest.

Clarence O. Mitchell (Travis Marlowe) believed in the beginning the area of Hewitt and Mill Site Canyons was a key to the Stone Maps gold, mines, treasure. He had numerous conversations with Travis Tumlinson about that area and in 1954 Mitchell moved from Hawthorne, California to Apache Junction to be close to the Superstitions.

But Mitchell only stayed at AJ for a brief time. By 1956 he had moved to Queen Valley to be close to Hewitt, Mill Site, Robles, Rogers and Randolph canyons. Queen Valley is only a few miles from all those canyons.

Clarence Mitchell covered the area of Mill Site canyon from its mouth up canyon to past Quail Spring. He did not meet Robert Garman until about 1958, but was well aware that Travis Tumlinson, Wilbur Leasman and Phil Leasman had been working that area throughout the 1950’s.

There are several mining claims to the west of Mill Site over near Hardt Tank that “supposedly” are producing gold but I have been to those in the 1980’s and tried to help the owner. I know the original claim locator from his claims in the 1970's. I don't believe there is any significant mineral on those claims tho.

Matthew

Your right on Matthew. Those are the areas I haunt. For a while the GPAA had a claim near Quail Springs. Huge amounts of mica on that claim. It would blind you in the sun. There is gold in the mountains north of there. Hard going. Not many prospect there. Bob Wards nephew Bayy had one of of Garmans old claims near The springs. He hauled some dirt from there to my house. I ran it through my Gold Well and the was some fine gold. Nothing like what I was getting couple miles from there. I gave some of that gold to Greg and he had it tested. 79.9% gold 20% silver. Same as some gold found off first water rd on the west side. I had a bucked of black sand. Forgot where from. Ran it and it was full of fine gold

 

[sgtfda]

The pan with fine gold

 

[gollum]

The pan with fine gold

The only reason you got gold out there was because of the Gold Witch!

Mike

 

[JohnWhite]

The only thing that I can say about the Peralta stones is...They do lead to one of my little holes in the wall...It is not where most of you believe it to be...But it is where the Peralta stones claim it to be...That is good enough for me...Maybe...Just maybe...One day some of you ldm hunters will get it through your thick skulls that the Peralta stones lead to the mining area of Quito...Or a little silver mining area that I am not privy to divulge at this time...I could go on and on about my beliefs...But there are few of you on here that may find my claims unwarranted...Oh well...Maybe I should stick to the Tayopa forum...Because believe it or not...I believe that the Peralta stones lead to what many might claim to be Tayopa...Go figure...Sure Jacob Waltz may of had a gold mine in Az...But he did not have the mine depicted in the Peralta stones...Yet then again this is only my opinion...

 

[sgtfda]

The only reason you got gold out there was because of the Gold Witch!

Mike[/

True. She points and Woody and I dig. Though she tried to kill Woody and I. We survived. I strongly suspect she is a scam artist.

 

[sgtfda]

Mike are you finally catching on? The witch on the stone represents a person not a landmark. A witch who points the way. Everyone has been looking at Jesuits when it is a far more sinister group represented. Think about it!

 

[Matthew Roberts]

sgtfda,

On the "Witch" map above it is clear the "Witch" is standing at a specific spot at the confluence of the Salt (Salina) and Gila Rivers which is located just southwest of Phoenix in today's Avondale.
This specific place is significant because it is the Gila-Salt Base Meridian point from which everything in Arizona is surveyed. The Gila-Salt meridian was first set in 1853 by the Barrett survey of the Southwest.
A monument was erected there and today that monument is still there and serves as the basis for every survey ever done in Arizona.
The "Witch is holding the cross right over that monument and pointing it to the east.
On this map the cross is not a cross at all in the religious sense but an "X" that represents the North-South and East-West points of the Gila-Salt Base Meridian monument.



On this later version of the "Witch" map, the cross the "Witch" is holding has three lines extending from it.
One lines points to the place on Queen Creek where the "Peralta" Stone Maps were discovered.
A detailed map of the area beyond that Queen Creek point leads a person up into the Hewitt, Rogers, Millsite, Randolph canyon areas.

Another line from the cross points to the Salt and Verde River confluence. The Verde River on this map however is called "San Francisco".

Another line points up into the Four Peaks area.

My question has always been, were the additions to the map done to consolidate other information that was shown on separate maps that were relevant to this "Witch" map ?

The placement of the Witches hands holding the cross would have been VERY significant because anyone knowing where that monument that was set in 1853 was located would have had a perfect starting point to follow any specific directions they might have had.

Matthew

 

[Matthew Roberts]

The Gila-Salt Base Meridian monument set in 1853 at the confluence of the Salt and Gila Rivers.

This photo shows the markers Base line looking east toward Apache Junction and Queen Valley.

If you follow this East line of the marker it falls about half way between Apache Junction and Queen Valley, almost on line with where the Peralta Stone Maps were discovered along Queen Creek.

 

[sgtfda]

Matthew that is a very interesting observation. I think your onto something.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

The site of the Gila-Salt Meridian boundary marker set by Barrett in 1853 was not placed there by chance. There was a definite historical significance for his placing it there.

In 1939 Fr. Oblasser a Franciscan attempted to trace the route of Fr. Marco de Niza from Culican Mexico up into and through what is today's Maricopa and Pinal Counties Arizona.

He traced de Niza's route down the Gila River on the south side going through what is known today as Casa Grande, Blackwater, Sacaton, Komatke and to the confluence of the Gila and Salt Rivers.

There near the confluence he encountered a large community of Pima and erected a large monument of stones. de Niza crossed to the north side of the Salt River and continued up the Salt to Pueblo Grande and all the way to Pueblo Moroni where he crossed to the south side of the Salt and came down through present day Mesa. He continued on to the Salt River Mountains just south of today's Phoenix (South Mountain Park) where he inscribed his name and the expedition he was undertaking. From there he continued due south to the Gila River and followed it back up the Gila in the direction from which he had come and returned to Culican.

This large monument of stones erected by de Niza is what Barrett found and used as his starting point for the Gila-Salt Meridian boundary marker survey.

The inscription rock by de Niza in the Salt River Mountains has been studied by several archealogy departments and is believed to be authentic.

Fr. Oblasser's work established de Niza as having been one of the first if not the first white man to have seen the Salt-Gila confluence and the present day site of Phoenix and Mesa.

Matthew

 

[wrmickel1]

View attachment 1489892

sgtfda,

On the "Witch" map above it is clear the "Witch" is standing at a specific spot at the confluence of the Salt (Salina) and Gila Rivers which is located just southwest of Phoenix in today's Avondale.
This specific place is significant because it is the Gila-Salt Base Meridian point from which everything in Arizona is surveyed. The Gila-Salt meridian was first set in 1853 by the Barrett survey of the Southwest.
A monument was erected there and today that monument is still there and serves as the basis for every survey ever done in Arizona.
The "Witch is holding the cross right over that monument and pointing it to the east.
On this map the cross is not a cross at all in the religious sense but an "X" that represents the North-South and East-West points of the Gila-Salt Base Meridian monument.

View attachment 1489896

On this later version of the "Witch" map, the cross the "Witch" is holding has three lines extending from it.
One lines points to the place on Queen Creek where the "Peralta" Stone Maps were discovered.
A detailed map of the area beyond that Queen Creek point leads a person up into the Hewitt, Rogers, Millsite, Randolph canyon areas.

Another line from the cross points to the Salt and Verde River confluence. The Verde River on this map however is called "San Francisco".

Another line points up into the Four Peaks area.

My question has always been, were the additions to the map done to consolidate other information that was shown on separate maps that were relevant to this "Witch" map ?

The placement of the Witches hands holding the cross would have been VERY significant because anyone knowing where that monument that was set in 1853 was located would have had a perfect starting point to follow any specific directions they might have had.

Matthew

Both these maps are interpretations of the Stone Maps, In my opinion, There like a tall tell that got more detailed as it spread. But unlike the Stone Maps became less detailed,

babymick1

 

[sdcfia]

View attachment 1489973

The site of the Gila-Salt Meridian boundary marker set by Barrett in 1853 was not placed there by chance. There was a definite historical significance for his placing it there.

In 1939 Fr. Oblasser a Franciscan attempted to trace the route of Fr. Marco de Niza from Culican Mexico up into and through what is today's Maricopa and Pinal Counties Arizona.

He traced de Niza's route down the Gila River on the south side going through what is known today as Casa Grande, Blackwater, Sacaton, Komatke and to the confluence of the Gila and Salt Rivers.

There near the confluence he encountered a large community of Pima and erected a large monument of stones. de Niza crossed to the north side of the Salt River and continued up the Salt to Pueblo Grande and all the way to Pueblo Moroni where he crossed to the south side of the Salt and came down through present day Mesa. He continued on to the Salt River Mountains just south of today's Phoenix (South Mountain Park) where he inscribed his name and the expedition he was undertaking. From there he continued due south to the Gila River and followed it back up the Gila in the direction from which he had come and returned to Culican.

This large monument of stones erected by de Niza is what Barrett found and used as his starting point for the Gila-Salt Meridian boundary marker survey.

The inscription rock by de Niza in the Salt River Mountains has been studied by several archealogy departments and is believed to be authentic.

Fr. Oblasser's work established de Niza as having been one of the first if not the first white man to have seen the Salt-Gila confluence and the present day site of Phoenix and Mesa.
Matthew

I thought that the argument against this forgery had been accepted by scholars long ago. Notwithstanding the fact that the carving's script style is wrong for the alleged period, the brief carved message itself contains the most damning evidence.

First, the cost of de Niza's first expedition (1539) was not born by de Niza, but by others. That particular language was lifted from authentic inscriptions from Inscription Rock at El Morro National Monument near Ramah NM - particularly the one of Don Diego de Vargas, carved in 1692. The South Mountain Park forger had a good idea, I guess, but he didn't check his facts closely enough.

To make matters worse, the term "New Mexico" was not used until roughly 50 years following the 1539 de Niza expedition. While it is generally agreed that the forged petroglyph is "old", it is also admitted that it was executed roughly between 1850 and 1920. A recent detailed paper on these findings is available here: http://alliance.la.asu.edu/dorn/Authenticating_PG_2012.pdf

Many experts have offered theories of Marcos's expedition routes, based primarily on interpretations and speculations of his 1539 notes and those of the 1540 Coronado Expedition that he guided. There are a lot of conflicting opinions. A recent bit of detective work has offered an alternative route, based on recovery of a mid-16th century artifact trail: CHICHILTICALE.COM

 

[sdcfia]

View attachment 1489915

The Gila-Salt Base Meridian monument set in 1853 at the confluence of the Salt and Gila Rivers.

This photo shows the markers Base line looking east toward Apache Junction and Queen Valley.

If you follow this East line of the marker it falls about half way between Apache Junction and Queen Valley, almost on line with where the Peralta Stone Maps were discovered along Queen Creek.

Township grids - and particularly the meridian base lines from which they are established - ought to be strongly considered by "treasure hunters". Also important might be the identities and histories those land surveyors who established these permanent and widespread geometrical systems of control points.

 

[wrmickel1]

Quite honestly Joe I thought my link might help BM date his find and give him a little more information about it as my assumption going in was that it was the real thing - I thought it was a pretty cool find. I didn't understand his response at all except I guess he thought I was making fun of his find which is 180 degrees from my intent. I often have a difficult time understanding when he's being serious as opposed to being sarcastic or trying to be humorous. Doesn't really matter now though.

I'll be there for the Rendezvous as well as a few days after to spend a few nights in the mountains alone renewing my spirit. See you then

Cubfan64

I got your meaning of the post completely, My responded with a cross of two words mixed together Professional and Confession, Were good I checked your link out, COOL. Mine is not that old, 200 years max, That's the great part of it, Its in line with with the Peralta's Dutchman, Stone Maps and the Jesuits time line. Take that and the 1857 penny found with it and the vase which is believe to be from the San Carlos Area and it paints a picture of those involved in mining in the Time line.

But anyway if you need renewing this stuff here is pretty good.



Thanks, Wrmickel1

 

[somehiker]

I wonder if any of the gold found by various DH'ers over the years, or even what Frank had in his pan, began it's journey from a place like this ?