Im speechless

mainejman · Oct 14, 2013

I'm speechless

Just pulled this out of the ground about twenty minutes ago pulled over to send.Its either ivory or antler I'm guessing.

mainejman · Nov 8, 2013

This is the closest i've seen yet.The information with the picture said bone and stone.From Port au choix newfoundland.

GatorBoy · Nov 8, 2013

Wow.. that makes me want to study the migration patterns of whales and seals up that way.
I wonder if that could have travelled in to that area by means of a previously speared seal from another coast only to fall prey on this one.

mainejman · Nov 8, 2013

Apparently the maine maritime archaic people were ocean travelers.So that leaves all sorts of possibilities.I know with the other types of stone tools and ground slate pieces coming from this spot.That i am in a moorehead phase time frame.So if it was made here or made its way here is anybodys guess.

GatorBoy · Nov 8, 2013

There is a very fertile fishing area just off the coast of Newfoundland called the Flemish cap that commercial swordfishermen still leave that area of the northeast coast to fish today.
Whales and seals have been using that area for a very long time..two ocean currents meet there.
It's basically the middle ground between main and Newfoundland .. It wouldn't surprise me if they ran into each other there.

mainejman · Nov 13, 2013

Well i have an age on my point.I sent a pic to arthur spiess he is a senior archeologist from maine.He says its in the 4,000-3800 year old range.He says that style was usually made from slate.That it is possible that it had arctic origins.Wasnt giving me the one piece of info i wanted....material....He like all of the people i contacted was wondering where i found it due to its condition.

mainejman · Nov 13, 2013

Has anyone seen anything like this point in overstreet.I cant find another example of it anywhere.

GatorBoy · Nov 13, 2013

mainejman said:
Well i have an age on my point.I sent a pic to arthur spiess he is a senior archeologist from maine.He says its in the 4,000-3800 year old range.He says that style was usually made from slate.That it is possible that it had arctic origins.Wasnt giving me the one piece of info i wanted....material....He like all of the people i contacted was wondering where i found it due to its condition.

Can you post a real close up.. well lit photo that shows a section where the "grain" of the material is visible?

mainejman · Nov 13, 2013

Sorry gatorboy all i got is my phone....

mainejman · Nov 13, 2013

Heres a pic taken with my sons first arrowhead find.Id say he started with a bang
.This piece was found in the same area as its white brother and is ground slate.

burlbark · Nov 13, 2013

I need to see an end grain shot of the back of the fasten area. You can always take a needle and get it red hot and see if it pokes into the end grain. If it does than its not stone or soap stone. I certainly looks like ivory in insane condition for being buried. It has to be white jasper. What a super rare find. Banner material.

mainejman · Nov 14, 2013

Thanks for the banner vote burlbark.At this time im limited to cell phone pictures.I am having difficulties finding anything to compare it to.Overstreet only handles flint and some antler made points.Im coming to believe it is not as old as paleo but it is every bit as rare and cant seem to be able to find anyone who has one.

fongu · Nov 14, 2013

It is an excellent find. Congratulations. I know next to nothing about artifacts, but have some my stepfather left me. Just a few arrowheads, but I've never seen anything like this.

NC field hunter · Nov 14, 2013

Both pieces are nice. The ground arrowhead is probably as rare of a find as the bone piece. I've only heard old fellas talk about ground points. Story is one has been found in my home town.

mainejman · Nov 15, 2013

Thanks n.c.Im begining to realize how rare they are the more i try to find examples.Yesterday an archeologist who i have been correspond ing with.Once again told me that style of point is usually made o slate and that bone would not survive maines soils.But ended it by saying that they were sometimes made of bone.So untill i can get it into either an archeologists or a geologists hands.Im still uncertain.They are both cool and are definetly unique.

Charl · Nov 15, 2013

GatorBoy said:
Wow.. that makes me want to study the migration patterns of whales and seals up that way.
I wonder if that could have travelled in to that area by means of a previously speared seal from another coast only to fall prey on this one.

gatorboy and mainejman, the Maritime Archaic tradition goes by that name because they were more adopted to marine resources then other contemporary Archaic cultures on the East Coast. The Maritime Archaic geographic extent includes all of Maritime Canada, i.e., the islands, as well as the Atlantic Coast of Canada. Also, the northern coastal area of Maine. I think I left several links earlier that help describe this adaptation. As for the style, yes, as Speiss said, they mimic the ground slate points made by the Maritime Archaic people. You won't find Overstreet or most any other guide including the ground slate forms, although I think Overstreet has a small entry but does not show typical ground slate points of these people. These people hunted sea mammals as a staple of their diet. And yes, they were capable of building vessels that were deep-sea worthy. Swordfish is found at their campsites, and swordfish is a deep water fish. So these people ventured far from shore. Ground slate points, looking like this example, can be found elsewhere in the Northeastern states, either as borrowed technology(ground slate is perfect for sea mammals), or maybe as trade at times.

Charl · Nov 15, 2013

In general, ground slate technology is found throughout the circumpolar region. Eskimos, Scandinavian cultures, and the Maritime Archaic people all made ground slate weapons that can look very similar to each other, despite distances in both time and space. Mainejman, the ground slate your son found as a first is super!

Here are Eskimo ground slate points showing how similar they can look to stuff from the Maritime Archaic people:

NC field hunter · Nov 15, 2013

Charl said:
In general, ground slate technology is found throughout the circumpolar region. Eskimos, Scandinavian cultures, and the Maritime Archaic people all made ground slate weapons that can look very similar to each other, despite distances in both time and space. Mainejman, the ground slate your son found as a first is super!

I always heard that ground points were ceremonial. That, I suppose, is the easy answer. Lol! Nice research Charl! Science always shines a brighter light on this type of artifact! Thanks for the info.!!!

mainejman · Nov 15, 2013

Thanx for the information Charl.I heard from a.spiess again today.He says grey slate will turn white under certain soil and water conditions.But he said it could be ivory.Im not buying the changing color theory .Due to the fact that the color is to uniform.Youd think it would at least be splotchy.

Charl · Nov 16, 2013

mainejman said:
Thanx for the information Charl.I heard from a.spiess again today.He says grey slate will turn white under certain soil and water conditions.But he said it could be ivory.Im not buying the changing color theory .Due to the fact that the color is to uniform.Youd think it would at least be splotchy.

Well, maybe ivory is the answer after all if Speiss was willing to say that.

Might try this, sounds safe to try: "Ivory is extremely smooth, hard, and dense. Bone is not. If you want to find out if it is Ivory or Bone. you can try this. Heat a pin head. it just has to be hot not red hot. Touch it to your item in a discrete place such as up in one of the notches. If it is Ivory nothing will happen at all. Smell the spot you just poked with the hot needle, if bone, it will have a slight scent of burnt hair. Ivory is Dense and smooth. Matter of fact Billiard balls were once produced from Ivory! Feel a billiard ball Dense and smooth. The Antique ones were made of ivory and yes heavy, dense and smooth material!"

This simple test should tell you if bone or ivory and it will not harm the piece, just pick a good spot that won't be noticeable, and a pin head should allow for that.