Info on Turkey (the country)

[reg11756]

Going to Turkey in August to watch my son play volleyball for the USA team. Staying the first week in Izmir on Aegean coast. Any knowledge about md rules there? Best way to get my machine/s there and back safely?

 

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[RotZorn]

Gee guys...I was working with a guy from Syria a few years ago... His wife sent me an E-mail and told me he had been caught..No head...Now I ask a lot more questions...Art

But that's in Syria, completely different country.

That's like saying you shouldn't detect in Canada, because somebody sent you an email saying that their husband got beheaded for it in Greenland.

Just because a country is semi-close to one that has a bad reputation, don't really mean that country is the same way.

I realize its close to Iraq (borders it) but it also borders Greece on the others side..... Just throwing that out there in case it might help anyone sleep better-

 

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[aarthrj3811]

~RotZorn-
But that's in Syria, completely different country.

That is correct...Just make sure you know the rules before you search anywhere..It is always nice to know when you are breaking the law...Art

 

[LM]

So that brings us back to the dealer there. Where are those guys detecting? Why can't anyone answer that?

I answered it quite clearly. Did you not see it?

Because metal detectors are sold in Turkey implies ABSOLUTELY NO SUPPORT whatsoever for your narrative no more than my purchasing an AR15 means I can go shoot it alongside a highway.

The empirical evidence definitely suggests it's NOT unregulated activity in Turkey but you have this incredibly obtuse narrative that is just mind-blowingly ignorant and inconsiderate of how things really work out there in the real world.

Did you not see the pictures of satellite dishes in Iran?
Regulations and laws can be incredibly complex; so complicated that one has to go to school for years and years and years to profess the law as a vocation. Your dumb simplifying narrative of "IF METAL DETECTORS ARE SOLD THERE THEN GO TO TURKEY AND METAL DETECT!!!" is just as stupid as saying "IF GUNS ARE SOLD IN THE UNITED STATES, GO TO THE UNITED STATES, GET A GUN AND FIRE IT OFF INTO THE AIR!!!".

Cue 10,000 words of drivel asnd stupidity in 3... 2... 1...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I answered it quite clearly. Did you not see it?

Because metal detectors are sold in Turkey implies ABSOLUTELY NO SUPPORT whatsoever for your narrative no more than my purchasing an AR15 means I can go shoot it alongside a highway.

The empirical evidence definitely suggests it's NOT unregulated activity in Turkey but you have this incredibly obtuse narrative that is just mind-blowingly ignorant and inconsiderate of how things really work out there in the real world.

Did you not see the pictures of satellite dishes in Iran?
Regulations and laws can be incredibly complex; so complicated that one has to go to school for years and years and years to profess the law as a vocation. Your dumb simplifying narrative of "IF METAL DETECTORS ARE SOLD THERE THEN GO TO TURKEY AND METAL DETECT!!!" is just as stupid as saying "IF GUNS ARE SOLD IN THE UNITED STATES, GO TO THE UNITED STATES, GET A GUN AND FIRE IT OFF INTO THE AIR!!!".

Cue 10,000 words of drivel asnd stupidity in 3... 2... 1...

LM, yes, I saw that (your answer). And yes, I failed to reply/comment on that theory. Ok, here goes:

Yes: It's entirely possible that a product can be sold somewhere (that ...to the casual observer ... appears to have a purpose or design), yet be totally illegal to USE for that "purpose or design". You know, like if the buyer intends to mount it as a decorative wall piece in their living room, yet never turn it on. Now that I've acknowledged that "yes, people might buy them and never use them", ask yourself LM: What sense does that make?? I mean, do you REALLY think they're buying them and not using them? I've also suggested that perhaps they're sold for industrial or business purposes (finding nails in logs). Ok, that brings us to your next answer to that:

Yes, I suppose it's "totally illegal", and that yes, their being bought to actually use for hobbyist purposes (gasp), yet all those buyers are doing it illegally. Kinda like the satellite dish law or something, eh? Or going 56 in a 55 zone, where "we all know" that no cop *really* gets anyone for 56 in a 55. Yet, on the other hand, *technically* they could. Ok. I suppose this is possible. And those buyers, if they bumped into a state-employed archie or bureaucrat, upon leaving the store with their purchase, would grin and say "oh, I'm getting this as a wall ornament". Right? Yes, all this string of possibilities is a possibility. And here's what I would say to all of this: Just as in the satellite dish analogy, or just as in the 56 in a 55 zone analogy, SO TOO WOULD I join in with those scafflaws and do exactly as they do (as it seems quite clear that satellite dishes abound there). But that's just me, and I understand that others will sit in their living rooms and listen to AM radio (because the satellite dish will get them in BIG trouble).

Art: if someone got busted in Syria, then that implies there was some LAW that they were BUSTED under, to begin with (lest how else would/could they have been "busted", if they weren't breaking a law [that was and is actually enforced]?) If that's the case, then FINE: don't detect in such areas, where it really is true that a person is in danger of some sort of legal peril. But that's not what we're talking about in this thread. I'm still not seeing anyone cite any actual laws that say it's prohibited (other than just to claim that it is). Can anyone cite an actual Turkish law, rather that just to parrot something they heard from someone else? And once they cite the actual law they're relying on, look closely and see if it's not (by context) referring to public lands. Thus leaving private farmer's fields outside the scope of the reach and context of the text. That would be the same as "scary" USA laws too: Arpa, and state laws (which, believe it or not, people have read and come away thinking: "oh no, I can't detect anywhere in my state!!" simply because they mis-apply the context there.)

Mike (M scott @ FTP), you say:

" As always I wanted to do some detecting with them but none would take me because its so illegal with severe punishments…..despite this most of them they still do it. "

And can you cite what it was/is they are saying makes it "illegal" ? And .... are any of them getting "severe punishments" for that which they readily admit to doing?

 

[RotZorn]

Out of curiosity, I have searched- a lot... With multiple search engines, and I can't find anything but message boards and those "ask" boards..... All of which read exactly like this thread.

Basically a bunch of people who have never been there, saying yes you can and no you can't. But nothing to confirm it either way?!?!

I'd probably leave my detector home, find out what the rules are once I'm in country, and if its ok to hunt the beach or whatever, maybe try to rent one?!?!

 

[LM]

Yes, I suppose it's "totally illegal", and that yes, their being bought to actually use for hobbyist purposes (gasp), yet all those buyers are doing it illegally. Kinda like the satellite dish law or something, eh? Or going 56 in a 55 zone, where "we all know" that no cop *really* gets anyone for 56 in a 55. Yet, on the other hand, *technically* they could. Ok. I suppose this is possible. And those buyers, if they bumped into a state-employed archie or bureaucrat, upon leaving the store with their purchase blah blah blah blah

Just for the record, folks, here we have Tom_In_CA equating an American traveling to an Islamic country and violating their antiquities laws as being the same as "going 56 in a 55".

If every there was a single paragraph that defined just how clueless you are on this issue, it's that one.

And with this, I truly am out of this conversation. If there is someone out there so incredibly stupid to follow your 'advice', then it legal Darwinism and there's nothing that could've been said to save them.

 

[RotZorn]

Just for the record, folks, here we have Tom_In_CA equating an American traveling to an Islamic country and violating their antiquities laws as being the same as "going 56 in a 55".

If every there was a single paragraph that defined just how clueless you are on this issue, it's that one.

And with this, I truly am out of this conversation. If there is someone out there so incredibly stupid to follow your 'advice', then it legal Darwinism and there's nothing that could've been said to save them.

Ah, saving people via the Internet. Don't worry about it man, if they're "so incredibly stupid to follow (his) advice".......

You should just let the Muslims get 'em. Because that's what they do. All of them. Everywhere, the entire world over..... But especially the ones in Turkey...... They all hate Americans. Even the ones who live here. Who are now legally Americans, they still hate Americans..... Hmmm not really sure about that.....

But...... It sounds like YOU have something against THEM?

I think you are guilty of assumption, which is really the pot calling the kettle black, because of the way you're attacking Tom- different subject... Law. But you're still calling him out because of his assumptions, about the laws pertaining to metal detecting in Turkey...."the evil Islamic state"?!?! Gimme a break!?!

So tell me what their religious beliefs HAVE ANYTHING TO DO AT ALL WITH THEIR DETECTING LAWS.

I'm not Islamic for the record, but I think you need to leave religion out of this.

 

[U.K. Brian]

Funny I can find plenty about detecting in Turkey in a few minutes including the facts of the case bz-badger mentions. In this case the American contractor had picked up a few rocks from the beach and customs refused to let him leave the country with his wife. Total cost in excess of $7000. Full details @ www.stripes.com. You can also find details of the bilateral agreement with the U.S. that seems to have been held up as Turkey had only arrested 565 people in 1997 for "looting". Numbers increased from then on and the length of prison terms handed out grew.

I didn't see anything racist in LM mentioning religion in the way he did. Just suggests to me that he may have visited foreign countries and realises that many will not accept an excuse that might be acceptable in the States. I've been to Turkey and they do have what seems rather extreme rules/laws. One example is you can take one pack of playing cards into the country but not two. I had my first ever hayfever attack whilst there and soon found out that sneezing is not approved of either. But its their country so if you want to visit stick to the rules and you can have a great time.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

LM, in picking the "56 mph" thing, I was piggybacking off of your very own satellite dish thing (which your very own pix seems to show that everyone does ). I was only drawing out your own example. See? When you gave the sattellite dish example , I didn't see anyone come on to berate you for making detecting out to be of such little consequence as that ?? So what's up? Why didn't you get the Darwin speech from anyone when you characterized the issue in such in-consequential way?? It works both ways LM.

So which is it LM: Is it as innocuous and un-enforced as either of those two examples (one of which was yours), or is it deadly and certain to meet doom?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

UK Brian, I don't doubt it. Sure, someone arrested for picking up or attempting to export some pretty stones he picked up from the beach. And I don't doubt examples of looters exist. So too do examples of each exist in the USA and the UK, when someone's detecting where he's not supposed to, or taking rocks from where he's not supposed to. If there's really laws about such things, THEN BY ALL MEANS KEEP THEM !!

Here's an example of a beach in the USA where you can't pick up pretty rocks. And ironically, this is surf-tumbled broken glass. For many years it was popular for people to collect the various colored tumbled glass stones. But recently, signs went up saying it was a no-no.

Glass Beach & Pudding Creek Headlands-Look But Don?t Take | Mendocino Fun

 

[dirtfisher23]

Re: [Uncleanedcoins] Metal detecting laws INTERNATIONAL < Prev Next >
Posted By: Anon Fri Jan 11, 2002 10:59 pm |


Options



Sorry, Gar. It's only illegal if you're apprehended and can't bribe your
way out of it.

Viva la mordida!

el rojo - quien no tiene consciencia


At 07:28 PM 1/10/02 -0500, Gar Travis wrote:
>Did you know that......
>
>The Law Regarding Metal Detecting in CYPRUS
>
>Under Section 2(1) (a) of the antiquities law of 1935 (amended 1973) any
>object whether movable or part of immovable property is protected by law.
>
>Section 14 (1) states that ` no person shall excavate or cause excavations
>to be made whether on his own land or elsewhere for the purpose of
>discovering antiquities without a license.
>
>Although not specifically mentioning metal detectors, section 14(1)
>implicitly rules them out, nor can a landowner legally give permission for
>a search to be carried out if it results in excavation.
>
>
>
>The Law Regarding Metal Detecting in ISRAEL
>
>The Antiquities Act 1978, Section 9a states that `no person shall excavate
>in a private property for the purpose of discovering antiquities, nor
>search for antiquities in any other manner, including the use of metal
>detectors, nor gather antiquities unless he has received a license for
>such from the Director. Breach of this section carries a liability to
>imprisonment for a term of 3 years or a fine of =3,150,000'.
>
>Section 38 of the same Act states that `any person found on an antiquity
>site, in whose possession or in whose immediate vicinity are found
>excavation tools and it can be assumed that they were recently used in
>excavation work at the site, or in whose possession or in whose immediate
>vicinity is found a metal detector, is presumed to have intended to
>discover antiquities unless he proves that he has no such intention.
>
>
>
>The Law Regarding Metal Detecting in SPAIN
>
>1. The use of metal detectors could involve considerations of the Law and
>Regulations governing artistic or archaeological finds, involving national
>heritage and treasure trove, as provided by the very detailed Law of 25th
>June 1985 (Historical Heritage); and the Royal Decree of 10th January 1986
>which develops it.
>
>2. If anything is found, therefore, it would be necessary to comply with
>the complex procedures outlined in these enactment's; and it would
>certainly not be possible for any finds to be taken out of Spain until the
>proper Authorities had given their consent. That could take months; and if
>the article in question is classified as part of the national artistic
>heritage, and/or is over 100 years old, it is not likely to receive an
>export permit either at all, or for a very long time, owing to the
>complexity of the procedures.
>
>The second aspect is a technical one. The Royal Decree of 25th November
>1987, which deals with nuclear energy and radio-activity, lays down rules
>and safeguards against radiation. The Order of 20th March 1975 sets out
>the homolagation rules for radio-active apparatus. The metal detector in
>question may not comply with those rules.
>
>
>
>The Law Regarding Metal Detecting in TURKEY
>
>The 1973 Antiquities Act carries very extensive lists of movable and
>immovable objects protected including places of ancient settlement or
>places where there are vestiges of ancient civilizations (Article 1). All
>objects are the property of the State (Article 3 ) and reporting is
>obligatory (Article 4) but a reward system exists (Article 47).
>
>There is a specific provision against treasure hunting, illicit excavation
>and dealing in antiquities (Article 51 - 52). Unauthorized treasure
>hunting carries a penalty of 2 - 5 years imprisonment and fines of =35,000
>to =310,000 (Article 47).
>
>The Law Regarding Metal Detecting in ITALY
>
>The 1939 Act of the custody of artistic and historic objects affords
>protection to all objects and coins of historical or archaeological value
>including coins. All objects are State property and must be reported to
>the Superintendency of Arts. Rewards may be offered up to 1/4 of the value.
>
>Metal detecting is forbidden in the following areas:
>
>Val D'AOSTA
>
>TOSCANA
>
>LAZIO
>
>CALABRIA
>
>SICILIA
>
>Coins found minted after 1500 can be kept by the finder and 10% of their
>value has to be paid to the landowner.
>
>

 

[dirtfisher23]

Minelab Owner on Metal Detecting in Turkey
Portable Antiquity Collecting and Heritage Issues: Minelab Owner on Metal Detecting in Turkey
.
I mentioned earlier Peter Tompa's postulated future metal detecting escapades in the "unregulated" eastern Mediterranean. I also discussed the story of the theft of three hundred "site wrecker" depth advantage Minelab detectors which will most likely not be reaching metal detectorists in Turkey just yet. In connection with these two stories, a reader passed along to me a link to a metal detecting forum thread which reveals the realities of metal detecting in this region. One Minelab owner (looks from his shirt and haircut in his avatar photo to be a Star Trek fan) Yalniz Guvercin (may not be his real name) writes07-11-2011, 09:28 PM about:
What I found with Minelab explorer XS (from Turkey):
gold rings that I found on the beach,
silver rings. coins (garrett ace 250 and minelab explorer xs)
I found 250 to ace the gold rings
What I found was not limited to these alone. could not take many photo ... immediately because it usually jeweler selling gold
My English is less than for doing translations Transat google .. I apologize in advance for incorrect translations. (garrett ace 250)
Among the usual congratulatory chitchat, one "Bonesquat" ("Elite Member") observes:
Great stuff you found! You must not have any competition. Nice.
Yalniz adds:
very old history of Turkey. detector to search the ban on turkey. we are doing in secret and at night, call ...
Hmmm. Asked what happens if he gets caught, Yalniz tells fellow detectorists:
imprisonment. at least 48 days. and the detector will be confiscated. We would like to treasure the ban from future
On hearing that, one of the responsible law abiding detectorist - apparently a US citizen from Hawaii - comments:
Arrrrrrrrrrrrg, your a [pirate icon] Don't get caught man! Best of luck to you!
There's "responsible detecting" for you. It's illegal, don't get caught (going out at night), best of luck and welcome to our forum. After a little more halting explanation from the Turk, the Hawaiian adds to his previous comment:
I think I understand. You are able to say if asked you found your items on the beach. I look forward to seeing more of your finds in the future! If you stop posting here I will assume you are in prison.
Once again, no "responsible detectorist" on the metal detecting friendly forum reacted to the notion of "laundering" provenances to circumvent the law. Another "responsible" US detectorist, this one from Claremont, CA reveals the mindset of the milieu:
Too bad about the ban. I would love to be able to detect the grounds around Aya Sofya, or the Topkapı Sarayı. What treasures must be waiting there!
Yes, indeed they are World Heritage Sites precisely to stop greedy oiks going over them with their metal detectors and spades hoiking it all out for their own personal entertainment and profit.
Posted by Paul Barford at 05:24
Labels: metal detecting, Turkey
2 comments:

samarkeolog said...
I would strongly encourage them to go detecting around Topkapı Palace. I just can't decide whether I want the CCTV cameras to be on or off when they're caught.
22 January 2012 20:38

Paul Barford said...
definitely on, so they cannot claim that the coins

 

[Tom_in_CA]

dirt-fisher, regarding what your text says about Turkey:

The Law Regarding Metal Detecting in TURKEY
>
>The 1973 Antiquities Act carries very extensive lists of movable and
>immovable objects protected including places of ancient settlement or
>places where there are vestiges of ancient civilizations (Article 1). All
>objects are the property of the State (Article 3 ) and reporting is
>obligatory (Article 4) but a reward system exists (Article 47).
>
>There is a specific provision against treasure hunting, illicit excavation
>and dealing in antiquities (Article 51 - 52). Unauthorized treasure
>hunting carries a penalty of 2 - 5 years imprisonment and fines of =35,000
>to =310,000 (Article 47).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this apply to public lands? I mean, they are public laws, therefore presumably applying to public lands. I mean, so too are there such laws in the UK that everything under the earth belongs to the queen (and as such, they don't hunt public parks for instance, and strictly stick to farmer's fields for the most part). Such laws (spelling dire consequences and such) have often been mis-interpretted here in the USA too: Someone reads something dire like that about "their state", and mistakingly assumes it means "all land within the state". But on the contrary: it only meant state-controlled land, not your own front yard, etc...

Thus .... correct me if I'm wrong, but those public laws, for public lands, apply to .... doh ... public lands, right?

 

[dirtfisher23]

DON'T RATIONALIZE THIS. YOU GET AUGHT BY THE TURK POLICE YOU WILL SERIOUSLY REGRET IT.
Don't metal detect in Turkey. Just some friendly advice.

 

[RotZorn]

What site is that from?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

What site is that from?

From the site which was developed by someone ... way-back-when .... going and asking each country "what are your laws regarding detecting?" (hey, who better to ask than the country themselves right?). And whomever is tasked with answering such a question (whichever desk it lands on), is sure to search far and wide to address the pressing question using whatever they thought applied.

So I think it's this link:

Law

And oddly, even in some of the more dire sounding countries, there are clubs, forums, dealers, etc.... Thus it appears they're staying on private land with permission, or .... quite frankly ... are so far out in the woods that no one cares, and will tell you that such verbage only applies to federal sites, or archaeological sites, etc... but not farmers fields with permission. This was the feedback I got from hobbyists in Italy and France, when I debated taking my detector there (I've got in-laws over there).

 

[Muddyhandz]

I find it amazing that one will go to such great lengths, with the most posts, and the most words, but really KNOWS THE LEAST ABOUT THE TOPIC!
Don't detect in Turkey until all the facts are known! Even the internet is limited in what you can find on the subject.
BTW, radar detectors have been sold here for decades but it's illegal to have one in your car since day one and many have been prosecuted.
But hey, you could go and buy one in any electronics store, no problem.
Oh, but they sell metal detectors in Turkey, so it must be o.k. to detect until your heart's content.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

hmm

BTW, radar detectors have been sold here for decades but it's illegal to have one in your car since day one and many have been prosecuted.
But hey, you could go and buy one in any electronics store, no problem.
Oh, but they sell metal detectors in Turkey, so it must be o.k. to detect until your heart's content.

Wow, are you comparing the "seriousness" of detecting to the "seriousness" of police radar detectors? I haven't heard of them being illegal to use (but I'm not disputing you either). But what I do know, is that a lot of people have them and use them. I detect with a buddy who has one, for instance. And I suspect (as you will probably acknowledge) that they are in relative wide-spread use, all while being "illegal", here in the USA.

Ok, with that said, how oh how oh how can you compare the two? I mean, if this were really an analogy of levels of "seriousness", then you could hardly blame someone over there from detecting. In the same way you can hardly blame someone here for getting those radar detectors.

So take your pick: is it that level of seriousness, or isn't it? I got slammed for making the analogy of going 56 in a 55 zone. And here it seems you've done basically the same thing. Hhhmmm.

 

[RotZorn]

Radar detectors are illegal in some states. Mine is not one of them.

But almost all of them have banned their use in commercial vehicles.

This was a terrible example to choose. I'm just saying.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

... This was a terrible example to choose. I'm just saying.

No, actually, I think it was a great example to choose. Only seems to "make the point", eh?