Ionia, Michigan city parks and fairgrounds are way off limit :(

[starwarsblazer]

Just got a reply from the Director of Recreation and Parks in Ionia and to my dismay all metal detecting and relic hunting in the city parks and the fairgrounds are way off limit. He stated "The amount of local history cannot be disturbed and therefore all attempts at recovering lost items (whether historical or not) are forbidden within city limits except if they are found above ground and can be recovered without disturbing the topsoil." That was a disappointment to hear because this city has SO much history. Oh well........

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

Question for you: did he cite for you the law or rule that said, what he's saying? Or is he merely just saying this because you asked him "can I metal detect?"

The reason I ask this, is that it's quite common for there to be no actual rule written anywhere, but if you ask, you can be told "no". In which case they would probably just morph something else to apply to you (like as in this case apparently, where they pull down cultural heritage or whatever, to fit your question).

Assuming there was no specific prohibition, and you merely got a "no" because you asked, here's another way to go about it in the future: Do not ask, if there's not already some specific prohibition. Look it up for yourself (park and school rules usualy available on-line at city hall websites). If it is silent on the issue, then so be it. Because odds are, no one cares or would ever have noticed. But since you ask, they say "no". Afterall, maybe they have images of geeks with shovels or whatever.

This begs the question: "but what if they morph clauses like 'disturbing the vegetation' or 'cultural heritage' or 'lost and found' or 'collecting" prohibitions', to apply to us? Shouldn't we therefore ask first?" If you start down that line of reasoning, I can gaurantee you that you will get a no at every single public place, everywhere. Because think of it: Is there ANY place you can go, and ask them this question:

"Hi, can go destruct your park, collect city-owned and other people's valuables for my own enjoyment, and steal and collect the past?" Do you think you can get a "yes"? And if you DID get a "yes" to your asking permission, it merely means you did not ask with the right set of mental pictures in their mind. If they said "yes", and you followed it up by "ok great, you mean I can dig then?" what do you think they would say? And even if they said "yes, as long as you cover it up", what if you then said "ok great, please sign this search and salvage permission agreement" What do you think they would say? And if they signed your search and salvage agreement, you ask "ok great, now I can collect coins and sell them on ebay for my own profit, right?" what do you think they would say?

and on and on it goes. Therefore I do not ask permission, for any place where it is not specifically disallowed, to begin with (by actual terminology citing "metal detecting specifically). If someone has an issue, they're welcome to tell me. But oddly, you will find that ...... as long as you're not being some sort of sore thumb or nuisance, that you will usually not be bothered, and people will pay you no mind. But oddly, in those same places where you could detect till you're blue in the face w/o anyone caring, you can still get a "no", if you ask.

Your desk-bound bureaucrat cites "historic resources" type stuff. But think of it, is there ANY park's director, ANYWHERE in the USA, that would say "my park has no historical resources"? I mean, do you think they're going to differentiate and say "well, this park is only built in the 1960s, so you can hunt there. But that park over there was built in the 1940s, so you can't hunt there", etc.... Of COURSE NOT. They will simply say "no to all" to make things easier. And is that to say they'd ever have given thought to the matter till you asked? Probably not.

 

[George (MN)]

It seems highly unlikely that the city parks department can prevent detecting in private yards with owners permission. Also, the fairgrounds is probably owned by the county, and how could someone who works for the city rule on property owned by the county?

If that person carried their statement furthur, they could say metal detecting is banned everywhere on earth, since they apparently make rules on property that is owned by others. Does the city really have the deeds to prove ownership of every yard? Did they buy the fairgrounds from the county?

What does Ionia city hall or park & rec dept say on their website? That might be worth checking. Also, the police could be asked if you could be fined for detecting city parks. If they say something like "maybe if you left a big hole that could injure someone", then you essentially have permission to detect neatly. That's what happened to me when I phoned a large nearby city parks dept: no digging or disturbing soil, but police said use your own judgment.

According to the person you talked to, it would be illegal to detect in one's own yard, or to disturb the soil by planting a garden. HH, George (MN)

 

[Tom_in_CA]

George, I had assumed that the city's answer to starwarsblazer was an answer..... only .... to land under their jurisdiction (ie.: city-owned lands). But after reading your post, I go back to re-read the original post, and see that it does appear they are saying "within the ENTIRE city". However, that could still be taken to mean in context: "every CITY OWNED property, within the ENTIRE city", and that they already know they have no say-so over private, or county, etc... property.

 

[Scott (Mich)]

There is a Whites dealer in Muir which is not too far from Ionia, you should ask him what he knows about detecting in Ionia. You can find him by going to White's website and looking for local dealers by putting in your zip code. Years ago I used to belong to a club that met in Muir but I do not remember any of the people's names that lived in the Ionia area.

 

[triplehooked]

This is interesting that I'd find a post about Ionia on here. A small town, and only 7 miles from me.....
I think that fellow is trying to pull a fast one. The Ionia fairgrounds was donated to the city by a private party for the enjoyment of the people and under the stipulation that the fair remained free....ie....Ionia Free Fair. I've not seen any signs as to there not being metal detecting allowed, nor anything in writing stating so, although I'll admit I haven't been digging through the law books. I've been there many times and even had fairground employees ask if I'd found anything! Detected next to a cop having lunch on the east side of the fair grounds (by the river) a month or so ago...... Btw...found mostly clad, but I did find my first silver dime there! Ohh, and I've hunted Ionia City Parks, too....are you sure that guy isn't into MD himself?....

 

[Tom_in_CA]

triple-hooked: your post is proof positive, that sometimes no one cares ...... till you ask.