Is there a honest way to prove a machine is worth more than 1000 than another

[49er12]

First only people that are unbiased and not loyal to a particular company comment, oh boy you say why, well because many people hell or high water will say, xp deus or minelabe or whomever is the greatest and that solves nothing. If you chose to use xp deus and manticore for example being the top machine go ahead. Is it marketing, this we can determine the cost of improvements however I’m not convinced of a machine being what 500 or more is that much sustainably better. Please if you can honestly prove it I’m listening thankyou.

 

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[creskol]

First only people that are unbiased and not loyal to a particular company comment, oh boy you say why, well because many people hell or high water will say, xp deus or minelabe or whomever is the greatest and that solves nothing. If you chose to use xp deus and manticore for example being the top machine go ahead. Is it marketing, this we can determine the cost of improvements however I’m not convinced of a machine being what 500 or more is that much sustainably better. Please if you can honestly prove it I’m listening thankyou.

EVERYTHING depends of the person using the machine. I have seen, up close and in person, somebody who was in tune with his cheaper machine embarrass the britches off of somebody who was not in tune with his $3000 machine.

 

[fyrffytr1]

I went form a White's DFX to the XP Deus 1 for the sole reason of it's weight. Having injured my back in an OTJ accident I could no longer swing the White's DFX. But, I could and still can handle the Deus 1. In fact I am probably going to upgrade to the Deus 2 in the near future
If not for a bad back I would probably still be using my DFX.
Like Creskol said knowing your machine is the key and I have learned the basics of the Deus well enough that I can hunt behind two of my friends that use the Nox 800 and another friend that uses a Deus Orx and still pull some nice relics. But, I think they are leaving me spots close to where we park Because I can't walk as fast or far as they do.

 

[49er12]

I always said and it’s obvious if you use a machine to it’s full potential which means spend many hours learning than it’s priceless. Xp deus 2 and minelab manticore are they worth the extra 500 or more, I’m asking, i mean is it a Ferrari or corvette in the engineering

 

[Blackfoot58]

First only people that are unbiased and not loyal to a particular company comment, oh boy you say why, well because many people hell or high water will say, xp deus or minelabe or whomever is the greatest and that solves nothing. If you chose to use xp deus and manticore for example being the top machine go ahead. Is it marketing, this we can determine the cost of improvements however I’m not convinced of a machine being what 500 or more is that much sustainably better. Please if you can honestly prove it I’m listening thankyou.

So true. Brand loyalty goes a long way in swaying many opinions. You need to be completely unbiased to to true testing.

 

[pepperj]

It's hard to convince me that swinging a cheaper machine will be as good as the higher priced machine with the same experience/time given on both machines.
I had always bought the top end Whites-then switched to Minelab-the to Deus.
Reasons for the latest switch96yrs ago) was the weight factor-swinging 5.5 lbs vs 2 lbs.
At the end of the day the body feels it when the years get on.

I figure if I can afford it why not get the best, and learn it.
I've looked at other models, read/watched reviews, waited, and then made the decision.
Usually about a year after the release of the machines.

Has everyone been spot on, still I wonder about a few machines.
One doesn't really have any idea if one machine is better than the other unless they're not digging it.

Many years ago a fellow was using one of those yellow Garrett machines.
I had a Minelab SE and had a few years of experience on it already as he did on his.
Though I had probably 40yrs of experience under the belt over him.
(But I don't doubt the abilities of a newbie.
Seen that proven many times over and over again.)
I would find a target, he would try with his machine. I would dig up a IH, or a LC, a button.
Each time he stated when he could even hear the chirp, he would have passed on it.
The very next day he bought a SE.
His posts off quality keepers went way up also.

I guess some will never step out of the comfort zone from the mid range to the higher end, and that's alright.
There's nothing wrong in that, nor is the old machine that somebody has-that have thousands of hours on it. knowing every sound, and what the target is probably. That alone is the winning factor between machine and operator is the time on that "one" machine.
(That has always been my on how people buy so many machines, and believe they're actually getting the best out of those machines)
I guess it comes also down to those that post up their finds, and those that never do post anything.
Why is that?
They do find things I hope as they're really experienced in picking out of every aspect of the machine not being used by them-yet I fail to see that they are even getting a find to post.

 

[sprailroad]

In a way it's like a car. You can drive a tiny "Smart car", and go all around town in it and even learn the basics of driving, however, it can only do so much and take you so far, as opposed to a say SUV or pick-up etc. I used a Garett GTA 1000 for a long time, and enjoyed it. Things improve, they advance, time comes for an up grade. Just like phones and TV's I guess. If you can spend some, it's nice to be able to up grade, and work with and use it for a long time. I would never recommend to a NEW detectorist to buy any top of line detector. As time goes on, if it is something you love to do, and can spend some extra cash for yourself, then get something you have read about and thought about, and enjoy. I myself NEVER criticize or dismiss any detector anyone is using, they have an interest, and are learning. If asked, I will show them any thing I can.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Detectors are like other products, you can walk or ride a bike between point A and point B, a car is more comfortable and faster, you can drive a smart car between point A and point B, or you can drive a nice car that is more comfortable and enjoyable. You buy what you enjoy using.

 

[l.cutler]

Whether it is worth an extra $1000 to be able to find items at a greater depth, be able to pick the good stuff out of the trash or be able to better ID before you dig is totally up to the user. To some it is worth it, to some it isn't.

 

[eman1000]

We evaluate metal detectors on a number of factors some are technology related to aid in finding targets and some are equal important tangibles like weight and ergonomics. Assuming we are only looking at the underlying Tech of two machines one priced at $1000 and another at $1500 how can we determine if one is worth $500 more. First you have to decide does $500 mean that a machine must be 33 percent better since it cost more or is a mere 5% increase in performance enough to justify the cost.
(* years ago I used to be heavy into computer gaming and it wasn't uncommon to spend $500-$1000 more for the newest video card for a <10% increase in performance. The logic of this is for each person's budget to decide but you can be pretty sure than within a year that same video card will be surpassed by a 25% increase in performance. The one nice thing about evaluating a video card is that it can be easily done with a number of software programs.)* Moore's Law actually states every 2 years transistors double with a 50% price decrease on the previous gen.

If we were to evaluate two metal detectors solely on what processors they have in them then that would certainly make our job easier. However you do not need a very expensive processor to perform the task of most metal detectors. * The Manticore might be an exception to this rule because of target trace

Option 2 is to evaluate a metal detector based on lab conditions. Of course no one can state that this is 100% full proof but IMO it is currently what manufactures do and the most scientific approach that most of us have at our immediate disposal. Assuming you have access to both machines the $1000 dollar and $1500 dollar machine. The classic example of this is Monty's nailboard test and test gardens. A more recent modern example of this is a gold coin next to an elevated iron nail. - For multi-freq machines as people like Calabash has demonstrated can show just one scenario of how a machine might perform. Additionally you can find side by side comparisons of modern machines at various price points avoiding bottle caps. You can also see side by side comparisons by a number of testers show falsing with some machines on iron targets.

Option 3 would be testing them both in the field but this would prove very time consuming. Although I have yet to see a good example of a double-blind test of this where say one person took a machine through an area and marked the targets and predicted what they were and then another person went through the same area with a different machine with no prior knowledge of said targets or location and marked their targets and predictions. * This would have to be preformed on many targets, soil conditions, and with multiple testers to reach any solid conclusions.

Which leaves us with Option 2 as our best cost ratio option * which still requires access to both machines - So Assuming Ergonomics and weight are non factors but they rarely are* at two different price points if the more expensive machine can outperform the lesser priced machine in lab conditions we can safely assume it is possible it would preform better in the field. To what percentage and for what cost point is virtually impossible to state in real world conditions.

* Since I personally have not purchased any of the newest machines over the >$1000 dollar mark I am not qualified to give my opinion on any particular machine. Interesting topic as Calabash just did a video on the Scientific Method when applied to testing Metal detectors. In the video someone stated that a machine at X dollars could find 95% of the targets that a modern machine could fine at x+$500 or even x+$1000 and my response to this would be how much is the other 5% of the targets you missed worth to you to spend on a new machine. Additionally what if you dug 5% less iron or junk targets because now we are talking about a 10% spread between the two machines. Is that worth $500 dollars more or even $1000 dollars more. How many gold rings on the beach makes up that difference or what's a few extra seated coins over the course of the year worth in the colonial sites. Maybe nothing or maybe a whole lot depending on the coin.

 

[49er12]

I don’t deny anyone from buying anything, I’m concerned about value for the increased prices. Example I’m not an expert, so we depend on very experienced folks that are very good at putting these machines to task, my opinion the weight between the manticore and deus 2 isn’t an issue, maybe the 5 year warranty better than 3, oh and it’s wirel technology but again what performance advantage does that have. and yes diving but keeping in mind a very few percent of folks dive. So putting that aside.. Cosemetically speaking means nothing, we buy something for its performance, seperation in iron, nails is up most important as is the depth. I’m not trying to convince anyone what is right or wrong. IT’s elementary unless the processor or chip is much better than the other, we don’t no, unless someone does, the manticore is easier to go throughput the screen options. So let’s just say this forget the price, example how much better is the xp deus 2 than the manticore, if at all. I’m typing too much for a simple answer. Please give your expert advice if it’s significant thankyou.

 

[Emil W]

It depends on two things:

If you personally find one machine outperforms another, that answers part one. It doesn't matter what others say.

The second part--is it worth $1K more--depends on how much $1K is 'worth' to you.

For some, $1K is a very significant amount--for others, maybe it's not a big deal.

 

[49er12]

Well let’s see for example the minelab representative said the manticore is 50% stronger than 800, so in most folks eyes that’s extraordinary, however I believe that was over substantially spoken, again that’s the big man not you or myself end user , now we can’t even get the machine for heavens sakes back ordered for 6 months,

 

[49er12]

To answer your question it’s not what I think, that’s why we have sales and marketing they explain the product and it’s full potential given the user learns it, I depend and rely on the company truthfulness,

 

[49er12]

YouTube is great however those many are not unbiased, but loyal brand users, I don’t care if an individual seems arrogant or whatever, if they do the endless work of testing, that’s almost priceless, my opinion I watch calabash, iffy signals, and the teach to name a few. they R constantly running test, iron, field, park, water. I get significant information. Oh and they don’t get told what to say, they are not bound to a specific company even if they get stuff for free, great time to be a detectorist

 

[eman1000]

Well let’s see for example the minelab representative said the manticore is 50% stronger than 800, so in most folks eyes that’s extraordinary, however I believe that was over substantially spoken, again that’s the big man not you or myself end user , now we can’t even get the machine for heavens sakes back ordered for 6 months,

Minelab's definition of 50% more power is different than 50% better performance. In fact by their own words a 30cm target "might get 2-3cm" improvement. 23min mark if you want to skip the lead-up.

 

[Jeff H]

Any machine can find the easy targets. It takes a good machine to find hard targets. It takes one of the top of the line machines to find the really challenging targets. As has been said, you are paying for performance.

 

[49er12]

I respect merril efforts

 

[49er12]

It’s safe to say the easy targets have been disappearing since what the 60s or so, explained as in surface and few inches beneath. Fact is sure folks lose stuff everyday, but, but not the significant relics and coins of silver as today, that is not being replenished, so being that said technological speaking machines must offer 2 important factors, better seperation in iron because that masked good targets in past and currently and depth by inch or so.

 

[Toecutter]

Its bin all about separation and ID for the type of detecting I tend to do most off. Also if your digging all day you don't want to waist time and energy on false signals. Im not loyal to any brand but I can say this Deus 2 is the best all day detector Ive used..