it only takes ONE---- and I found one total #*^@%$&

[Tom_in_CA]

... seems he looked out the window and saw me diggin' and came out to express horror that I was on the lawn behind the town hall.....

Ok. thanx for explaining that. But didn't you say in post #25, that this fellow Bill already knew you were md'ing at this location ? And you'd already done show & tell with him. And that apparently it was no problem ?

But then, one day, he looked out his window, and NOW it was a problem ? Didn't he know you (gasp) dig before ? Or am I misunderstanding your #25 ?

Or was THIS the one & only time he saw you and griped ? If so, then according to your own time-line and tallies in the thread: You've dug "500 holes" and he saw you dig only 1 of them ? Then it sounds to me like a case of unfortunate timing.

Or put another way: Now that you've cleared up that he saw you from his office window, then what's to simply stop you from determining what his hours of work are each day ? Eg.: M to F, 8am to 5pm, etc... ?

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

We had to do this at a park in San Francisco years ago. A certain park, has a certain public works dept. building adjacent to it. One day, I got a "scram" from a fellow in a suit, tie, and briefcase. I gave lip service, and went to load up my machine in my truck. I watched as the fellow walked away, and entered the building. Apparently he was a park worker in that building.

Later, I compared notes with a few friends of mine who work that park sometimes. They too had gotten a "scram". And when we compared notes, it was the EXACT SAME FELLOW. So we easily determined the open and close hours of that building, and then could easily estimate when that one fellow worked. And then just went on the off-days or off hours. Presto: Problem solved.

That SF example shows how I/we could have "knocked ourselves silly" debating semantics, going to mayors and police, blah blah blah. But .... as you can see, we just made it easy.

 

[fmerg]

I talked to a lawyer friend of mine and he said "when they ask you to stop or leave over public safety concerns you have no choice but to leave"
so that means any official can make up the rules as they go along

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I talked to a lawyer friend of mine and he said "when they ask you to stop or leave over public safety concerns you have no choice but to leave"
so that means any official can make up the rules as they go along

fmerg, the wording would not be that they're "making up rules as they go along". The wording would be that they're interpreting existing rules/laws.

It is impossible to make rules and laws for every conceivable thing that *might* arise in the field. So there's broad category things like "blocking sidewalks" and "annoyances" and "obscenities", etc.... All of which are subjective. Yes I know that *sounds* capricious and whimsical. But it has to be that way. Otherwise no cop or public official could EVER get his job done. People would forever be arguing semantics in the field.

Eg.: "But officer, I know the sign says no dog walking in the park. But since my dog has 3 legs, he technically "hops" not "walks", blah blah blah Hence yes: Duly appointed public officals and LEO's do have a degree of latitude to interpret and apply. And the citizen must comply. If the citizen really feels that it is unjust unlawful interpretation, he can take it up with the judge.

 

[Duckshot]

I talked to a lawyer friend of mine and he said "when they ask you to stop or leave over public safety concerns you have no choice but to leave"
so that means any official can make up the rules as they go along

What do you mean by "they"? We are talking public property. If there ain't a law against it, here in America you are allowed to do it. That is called liberty. As long as you respect the rights of others we Americans have tremendous Freedom.

That'd how come even a Lincoln penny says " LIBERTY" on it. Liberty is a core American principle.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Haha, duck-shot: You know what the pat-answers would be, right ?

.... We are talking public property. ....

Well, sure. And public property has limitation of use, and rules of play, for the "common good". Eg.: speed-limits, etc..

.... If there ain't a law against it, here in America you are allowed to do it. ...

Well, sure. But in this case, someone's going to say there IS a "law against it". Eg.: forbiddance of "harvest, remove & take" issues. Or "Alter & disturb" issues. Or "cultural heritage" issues (heaven forbid you find an old coin).

.... As long as you respect the rights of others ....

Well, sure. And the persons who want to say "no" are going to say that md'ing is NOT respecting the "rights of others. Because you are (in their opinion) likely to leave a hole, where a little girl can trip and twist her ankle (how can you be so thoughtless duckshot ? ). Or that you are "not respecting the cultural heritage rights of the whole community". Because you put that button or barber dime on your own mantle place, instead of a museum for ALL people to enjoy. (how can you be so greedy?)

 

[Duckshot]

I found it, and the original owner cannot be determined, it is mine.

Illegal to detect on town of Woodstock huh?

I'm in MO right now. Show me-

Woodstock NY town codes

 

[Duckshot]

Not trying to get political but the curiosity is overwhelming.

What on God's Earth are "cultural heritage rights?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Not trying to get political but the curiosity is overwhelming.

What on God's Earth are "cultural heritage rights?

Nah, it's not "political" , so T'net rules are safe.

"Cultural heritage" is the $20 words for archaeological protection of relics, artifacts, etc.... Eg.: so that you or I don't go start helping ourselves to things at Bodie, Shiloh, Ghettysburg, etc..... Any archaeological relics potentially in the ground, are for archies to dig and document. And the public can't go helping themselves "carting off priceless historic artifacts" (shame on you )

You typically only find such verbiage at the Fed level (arpa) and state parks levels. Rarely ever at city or county levels.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

take it easy gentlemen

 

[Duckshot]

Port Ewen Ace, this is a privately owned forum. The rules for the general forums is no politics. Treasure hunter has been entrusted with the thankless authority to determine what is appropriate and what is not. The rules are posted, no freedom of speech here, sorry.

However, there is a political forum on this board. You have to be a Charter Member to join or view the politics forum. It'll cost you only twenty bucks a year and there are other benefits and prizes beyond the access to the politics section.

Edited to Add- Treasure Hunter posts in the politics section often. He is totally Deplorable.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Port Ewen, please post by our rules, as stated politics are only allowed in our politics forum. Admins have stated the politics rule does not apply to avatars or signatures.

TreasureNet rules also state if a members has issue with moderation to handle it via pm, not in open forums, please address it via pm in the future.

Even though I have agreed with political posts many times I still have to delete them if they violate our rules.

 

[port ewen ace]

Port Ewen, please post by our rules, as stated politics are only allowed in our politics forum. Admins have stated the politics rule does not apply to avatars or signatures.

TreasureNet rules also state if a members has issue with moderation to handle it via pm, not in open forums, please address it via pm in the future.

Even though I have agreed with political posts many times I still have to delete them if they violate our rules.

the PM is on it's way

 

[Carolina Tom]

You are welcome in the South, the local authorities encourage us to fall in holes.

Sorry to hear about this buddy.

 

[Pepper06]

I'm with Kurios1, stand up to the control freaks. If you give them an inch, they'll take a foot. Either use your rights or they will be taken away

 

[Tom_in_CA]

the PM is on it's way

port-ewen ace: While it can seem like censorship of ideas and topic, or a personal attack on just you: Put yourself in the mod's shoes. They have a tough job to do. And are often times just responding to someone who gripes "that's political" or "that offended me". So they're just trying to keep the peace. You CAN get your opinions in for the fair exchange of ideas here.

I know it might seem unfair or capricious. But , given the right phrasing and tempo, it's always possible to get your opinion into topics and threads, w/o running afoul of the moderators. Yes I know it's tempting to come out with both guns blazing on topics to which are bees-in-our-bonnets. But it can be done so, in ways that stay within the rules.

You introduced a good topic, and we can understand how you were riled aganst that power-that-be.

 

[b3y0nd3r]

Don't fight fire with fire, fight with water. Truthfully he has NO legal ground. At this point, I would considerate it harassment, prejudice, and a basic assault to your constitutional right to the pursuit of happiness. I would get the names and all the information and take it to a layer and explain it in detail. I would then say that suing the city for damages is an option you may want to pursue. I know it's a lot just from being "shoo'ed" but give them an inch, and it will never stop.

 

[WaterScoop]

Something to ponder: A HIGHER LAW

The rule according to a higher law means that no law may be enforced by the government unless it conforms with certain universal principles (written or unwritten) of fairness, morality, and justice.[1] Thus, the rule according to a higher law may serve as a practical legal criterion to qualify the instances of political or economical decision-making, when a government, even though acting in conformity with clearly defined and properly enacted legal rules, still produces results which many observers find unfair or unjust.

Yes it has stood up in court not many know about it a good lawyer will help you navigate.

Further reading.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_according_to_higher_law

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... I would then say that suing the city for damages is an option you may want to pursue.....

.... a good lawyer will help you navigate....

Waterscoop and b3yond3r : I just wrote an example post of this "fight and get clarified" solution you guys present. Versus other options:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t.../559217-example-night-hunting-keep-peace.html

Yes there are times when an md'r has no choice but to seek-to-over-turn, seek clarifications, blah blah. But IMHO, it's often-time going to go against your favor, and over-looks other options.

 

[b3y0nd3r]

Waterscoop and b3yond3r : I just wrote an example post of this "fight and get clarified" solution you guys present. Versus other options:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t.../559217-example-night-hunting-keep-peace.html

Yes there are times when an md'r has no choice but to seek-to-over-turn, seek clarifications, blah blah. But IMHO, it's often-time going to go against your favor, and over-looks other options.

I always go with your option, "keep doing it until they really mean stop" policy. But it couldn't hurt to be prepared. Talking with a lawyer before it gets to that might help.