Its End Game

[bigscoop]

Are you now claiming that the statements in the 1885 Beale Papers are "AUTHENTIC" as stated on the copyright and pamphlet cover by James Beverly Ward?
That would make your current promoted theory FICTION.

You have simply talked yourself right into your own corner that you can't escape any longer. You keeping screaming "it's all fiction" and yet the story contains "real people" and not "imaginary people." You scream "Literary license" without so much as a clue that "Literary license" does not determine what may, or may not be fiction, or even how much of a work might be fiction. You tell Jean that his New Orleans Thomas Beale can't be the Thomas Beale of the BP because he wasn't a man of color, and yet you deny any possible chance that Thomas J. Beale was a man of color. You have become lost in your personal pursuit of endless discrediting at every and all cost that you can no longer even remember what you've attacked or how you have tried to attack it. And now, this, "Are you now claiming that the statements in the 1885 Beale Papers are "AUTHENTIC" as stated on the copyright and pamphlet cover by James Beverly Ward?" Where, "in your lone copy" of the Beale papers does it say that Ward had anything at all to do with the publication's cover? Man, I'd sure like to read your secret copy.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Which would rule out Thomas Beale of New Orleans.

P.V.'s book has an interesting idea about Beale . Page 121-124 seen to have a familiar sound as to this thread . Possibly Thomas Beale of Fincastle was a Creole .

 

[Rebel - KGC]

.....Good lord.

"literary license" also known as "artistic license"; "used to denote the distortion of fact, alteration of the conventions of grammar or language, or rewording of pre-existing text...." Now where do you get fiction in all of this?

So far you have created your own definitions for, fiction, literary license, complexion, and a few more I'm sure I'm forgetting. But hey, whatever works for you. How's the hand?

Fiction; "literature in the form of prose, especially short stories and novels, that describes imaginary events and people."

HEH... FACTION... Fiction based on FACTS! Once upon a time... HISTORICAL Fiction/Novel.

 

[bigscoop]

P.V.'s book has an interesting idea about Beale . Page 121-124 seen to have a familiar sound as to this thread . Possibly Thomas Beale of Fincastle was a Creole .

Interesting that you bring up that proposition, though for the sole benefit of ECS, let me say in advance that just because I think it is an interesting proposition this shouldn't necessarily be taken that I agree 100% with the notion. However, and now that I've hopefully gotten that out of the way and avoided the usual jumping to conclusions, there is a distinct theme that exist with or Thomas Beale of Fincastle and our Thomas J. Beale of Richmond.

We know Thomas J. Beale of Richmond was a man of color who resided in a location that was culturally diverse (Jackson Ward). And likewise, after his famous duel with Risque the Thomas Beale of Fincastle curiously hastened to a city that was also culturally diverse in much the same way.

Our pamphlet story exhibits two very distinct eras, 1817-1822 being the years of the main events, and 1863-1885 representing the era in which our author was involved with the lingering mystery. Forty-one years have passed between these two eras, roughly 1 1/2 generations depending on which generation scale one uses.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Interesting that you bring up that proposition, though for the sole benefit of ECS, let me say in advance that just because I think it is an interesting proposition this shouldn't necessarily be taken that I agree 100% with the notion. However, and now that I've hopefully gotten that out of the way and avoided the usual jumping to conclusions, there is a distinct theme that exist with or Thomas Beale of Fincastle and our Thomas J. Beale of Richmond.

We know Thomas J. Beale of Richmond was a man of color who resided in a location that was culturally diverse (Jackson Ward). And likewise, after his famous duel with Risque the Thomas Beale of Fincastle curiously hastened to a city that was also culturally diverse in much the same way.

Our pamphlet story exhibits two very distinct eras, 1817-1822 being the years of the main events, and 1863-1885 representing the era in which our author was involved with the lingering mystery.

NOPE, "DUEL" was with Thomas Beale, Sr.; he DID go down to New Orleans. NOTHING to do with your Thomas J. Beale of Richmond, Jackson Ward. Give the dates of TJB in Richmond/Jackson Ward; wasn't YOUR TJB born in 1847...?

 

[bigscoop]

NOPE, "DUEL" was with Thomas Beale, Sr.; he DID go down to New Orleans. NOTHING to do with your Thomas J. Beale of Richmond, Jackson Ward. Give the dates of TJB in Richmond/Jackson Ward; wasn't YOUR TJB born in 1847...?

Not even suggesting that they were the same men, or that Thomas Beale Sr. was TJB, or that TJB of Richmond was the TJB of the papers. What I am pointing out is that nearly 70 years had passed since 1817 and 1885, or little more then two full generations if we use a scale of 30-33 years per generation that was common scale of the era. But regardless which scale one applies we can clearly see that generations have indeed passed. Our author tells use that "the secret" was confined to a limited circle, family, and one trusted friend. Jean brings up the notion that Thomas Beale of Fincastle may have been Creole, which begs the question, "did the secret our author learned in 1863 also contain a family secret element?" And this basic notion may indeed be starting to get into the Hart of the matter if one simply takes pause to consider the reasonable possibilities.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Not even suggesting that they were the same men, or that Thomas Beale Sr. was TJB, or that TJB of Richmond was the TJB of the papers. What I am pointing out is that nearly 70 years had passed since 1817 and 1885, or little more then two full generations if we use a scale of 30-33 years per generation that was common scale of the era. But regardless which scale one applies we can clearly see that generations have indeed passed. Our author tells use that "the secret" was confined to a limited circle, family, and one trusted friend. Jean brings up the notion that Thomas Beale of Fincastle may have been Creole, which begs the question, "did the secret our author learned in 1863 also contain a family secret element?" And this basic notion may indeed be starting to get into the Hart of the matter if one simply takes pause to consider the reasonable possibilities.

"Family Secret"...? Like Thomas Jefferson's sons (3) with Sally Hemings (slaves) passed for "white", lived in "White Society" after leaving Monticello; one died in 1856, the other two fought in YANKS "all-white" Units & survived the CONFEDERATE WAR...? Heh... sounds like RM was "related" to TJ! INDEED!

 

[bigscoop]

"Family Secret"...? Like Thomas Jefferson's sons (3) with Sally Hemings (slaves) passed for "white", lived in "White Society" after leaving Monticello; one died in 1856, the other two fought in YANKS "all-white" Units & survived the CONFEDERATE WAR...? Heh... sounds like RM was "related" to TJ! INDEED!

Hu...?

 

[ECS]

... And now, this, "Are you now claiming that the statements in the 1885 Beale Papers are "AUTHENTIC" as stated on the copyright and pamphlet cover by James Beverly Ward?" Where, "in your lone copy" of the Beale papers does it say that Ward had anything at all to do with the publication's cover?...

As agent copyright owner, Ward had complete control of the publication, which includes the cover. Interestingly, his copyright application on borrowed stationary from the company his son-in-law worked, and the US Library of Congress document contains the words "authentic statements".
It does shoot holes in all of your "secret" history behind the Beale story theories.

 

[ECS]

I have no idea how you are creating all of this? None whatsoever?

Have you conveniently forgotten the "5th GENERATION", or are employing selective memory?

 

[TN_Guest1523]

As agent copyright owner, Ward had complete control of the publication, which includes the cover. Interestingly, his copyright application on borrowed stationary from the company his son-in-law worked, and the US Library of Congress document contains the words "authentic statements".
It does shoot holes in all of your "secret" history behind the Beale story theories.

That is why I think that Wards daughter was the author and Ward just added to it and cleaned it up a bit to form the pamphlet . Then that newspaper lady from 1934 would have a correct statement from the daughter that J. B.Ward that he created the pamphlet . Is that what she said ? I do not know for I have not seen it .

 

[franklin]

That is why I think that Wards daughter was the author and Ward just added to it and cleaned it up a bit to form the pamphlet . Then that newspaper lady from 1934 would have a correct statement from the daughter that J. B.Ward that he created the pamphlet . Is that what she said ? I do not know for I have not seen it .

www.angelfire.com/pro/bealeciphers/page23.html Click on some of the links on this page and you can read some of his daughters statements.

Sorry the link worked before I posted it. I don't know why it don't work now. But anyway go to angelfire or Google Job Print Pamphlet Beale Treasure" and it will take you to this site. Also read page 31

 

[bigscoop]

As agent copyright owner, Ward had complete control of the publication, which includes the cover. Interestingly, his copyright application on borrowed stationary from the company his son-in-law worked, and the US Library of Congress document contains the words "authentic statements".
It does shoot holes in all of your "secret" history behind the Beale story theories.

You're unbelievable, Dude. You can't even recall those lengthy debates over the phrase "authentic statements" and the definition of authentic, in which you fully agreed that authentic could simply mean that the text was an authentic work of an author, or that the text could easily contain only a few "authentic statements" in the entire text, and that the phrase "authentic statements" in no way should be taken to mean that the entire text is true.

And second, you apparently can't even recall in the very beginning of this thread where, unlike you, I had no problem setting my pride to the side in disclosing that I had taken my personal theory and tossed into the trash after being privileged to this one. Have you seen a doctor for your short memory issues? While you are there you can have him maybe look at that hand as well. Dude, you're just all over the place these days trying to discredit whatever you can at any and all cost even when you can't even draw clear lines on what it is exactly that you're trying to discredit. Getting pretty sad, Dude.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

www.angelfire.com/pro/bealeciphers/page23.html Click on some of the links on this page and you can read some of his daughters statements.

Sorry the link worked before I posted it. I don't know why it don't work now. But anyway go to angelfire or Google Job Print Pamphlet Beale Treasure" and it will take you to this site. Also read page 31

I have seen this years ago 6-7 now I think . I also think most of it to be rants of people that know not what they say . Anyone can have a free website !

 

[TN_Guest1523]

www.angelfire.com/pro/bealeciphers/page23.html Click on some of the links on this page and you can read some of his daughters statements.

Sorry the link worked before I posted it. I don't know why it don't work now. But anyway go to angelfire or Google Job Print Pamphlet Beale Treasure" and it will take you to this site. Also read page 31

I have a need to look at all evidence myself not just take the word of somebody on a free website . I will be looking for to prove that there is a newspaper story at all first and then go from there . At this point no one who I have talked to has seen it, just know of people talking about it .

 

[ECS]

... Have you seen a doctor for your short memory issues? While you are there you can have him maybe look at that hand as well. Dude, you're just all over the place these days trying to discredit whatever you can at any and all cost even when you can't even draw clear lines on what it is exactly that you're trying to discredit. Getting pretty sad, Dude.

What is sad, is that you post put downs instead of providing absolute proof to back your claims.
How am I discrediting a theory, that so far has been presented as a flight of fancy- there was a man of color named Beale who was an Alderman of Richmond's Jackson Ward, so he must be involved in the Beale Papers?
That is ALL you have brought forth concerning this theory along with links that have NOTHING to do with the Beale Papers.
...and that's the second time you mentioned the hand jive.
What's up with that?

 

[ECS]

... I will be looking for to prove that there is a newspaper story at all first and then go from there . At this point no one who I have talked to has seen it, just know of people talking about it .

The article by Mrs Martha Rivers Adams (11-10-1882 to 6-28-1959) with Adeline Ward McVeigh . appeared in THE LYNCHBURG NEWS (1933 or 1934) which is now THE NEWS & ADVANCE owned by Berkshire Hathaway.

 

[bigscoop]

What is sad, is that you post put downs instead of providing absolute proof to back your claims.
How am I discrediting a theory, that so far has been presented as a flight of fancy- there was a man of color named Beale who was an Alderman of Richmond's Jackson Ward, so he must be involved in the Beale Papers?
That is ALL you have brought forth concerning this theory along with links that have NOTHING to do with the Beale Papers.
...and that's the second time you mentioned the hand jive.
What's up with that?

Oh darn, has someone been slipping you some of your own medicine? How dare they! Perhaps you need to go back and do review of your many recent post in multiple threads in just this forum......who are you not engaged in belittling argument with, even at the expense of your own credibility? Just in recent post you have intentionally tried to present inaccurate definitions of a variety of words & phrases & descriptions that you have been called on and corrected time and time and time again. In one thread you argue at all cost the possible connection of a man of color and yet in another thread you tell Jean that a certain person can't be the correct individual because according to you he wasn't a man of color. And the list just keeps going and going......whatever it takes to pick a fight, at all cost, any cost.

Me. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong once that inaccuracy has been clearly established, as that is what debating theories is all about. And I have no problem in restructuring a theory as that is the whole point behind theories in the first place. And I have no problem showing support of extremely strong theories and sharing what I can in regards to those theories, just as I have been doing here.

Fiction, literary license, complexion, authentic statement, these are just a few of the definitions you have attempted to rewrite and present with the most inaccurate representations in recent post, and of course, all in the name of aggressive pursuit of the fight. And what has it gained you? You just keep slamming your own hand-jive in the door jam, so much so lately that it has become rather obvious and ridiculous.

"This is a true story. The names have been changed to protect the innocent".....and so, of course, by your definition of literary license, the entire story must then be deemed, fiction!

"Based on a true story"....and so of course, and yet again, by your definition of literary license, the entire story must be deemed, fiction!

And it just goes on and on......

 

[franklin]

Why don't someone post proof. I tire of reading "you hit me first" "no you hit me first" Childish really. Put up or shut up.

 

[bigscoop]

Why don't someone post proof. I tire of reading "you hit me first" "no you hit me first" Childish really. Put up or shut up.

Oh, and this coming from you, of all people. Didn't you just get calmed down "again" by a mod for your overall general politeness and respectful and grownup remarks.