John Mecke Watch Paper etch plate is off to the museum!

[granthansen]

I'm pretty stoked. I will call this my first museum find, as I dream of others...

I already started a long thread about it if you want to catch up: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...00s-jewelers-clock-watch-makers-embosser.html

To summarize, this is an etched piece that was once used to create a watch paper from. Watch papers were used by watch makers to place inside pocket watches to act as both protection and advertisement. I found it in Mt. Holly, NJ, not too far from Mr. Mecke's one-time place of business, Philadelphia.

I just got off the phone with the National Association of Clock and Watch Collectors who asked me to donate this to their museum. They think it's a great piece and will put it on display, as well as include digital images on their site. (In addition, the American Antiquity Society is including digital images in their national archives.)

Here are the last pics I've taken of the piece, cleaned up a tad more. One is how it looks naturally with reverse type, the other is reversed for easier reading, and then one I Photoshopped to bring out some more details.

Huge thanks to everyone who followed and chimed in on the initial thread, and especially RodgerDoger who identified what the plate was used for. You've all made a cool find even more exciting.

Yes, now I'm even more addicted to this hobby.

 

[flyadive]

Thanks! Yes, I'll be able to note this as a tax deductible donation. But now I wonder... hmm.. can I also include a day's wages since this was found at the 7.5 hour mark, and equipment expenses?? That would rock.

Yea now your talking ... You'll probably get minimum wage but what the Mecke!

 

[Unique Designs]

You could get an ink pad and stamp a few impressions yourself. I'd think it might have been used to slightly emboss the decorative elements into the round paper before it was slipped into the watch case. Don't these papers usually have rounded edges to fit the contours of the cases.

 

[Chuck In Oregon]

Thanks! Yes, I'll be able to note this as a tax deductible donation. But now I wonder... hmm.. can I also include a day's wages since this was found at the 7.5 hour mark, and equipment expenses?? That would rock.

I can't tell if this is a joke or not. I'd be cautious about getting tax advice from a metal detecting forum, or trying to intuit tax law without competent guidance, but that's just me.

I love your idea of incorporating this find in a flyer. It might work for you and it might at least spark up a conversation or two. However, you're probably better off to forget about a deduction for an in-kind donation like this. IMHO, the fair market value of your find is somewhere between negligible and zero. I just can't imagine a competent appraiser finding otherwise, unless you know of some comparable sales or other means to value it. That doesn't mean it's not a very interesting find and it might contribute to someone's knowledge of history and such. I love your find but I caution you not to get too carried away with dreams of value.

Just enjoy your find and sharing with the museum and us and let it go. There's little likelihood of you profiting in any way from this find. If you simply can't stand the idea of maybe missing out on a deduction, you should probably read IRS Publication 561, Determining the Value of Donated Property.

Great find, though. Better than any relic I've ever found in the US.

Chuck

 

[Chuck In Oregon]

You could get an ink pad and stamp a few impressions yourself. I'd think it might have been used to slightly emboss the decorative elements into the round paper before it was slipped into the watch case. Don't these papers usually have rounded edges to fit the contours of the cases.

That's a really good idea. Something to add to your showcase, along with pix of your find.

Chuck

 

[Curious The George]

You could get an ink pad and stamp a few impressions yourself. I'd think it might have been used to slightly emboss the decorative elements into the round paper before it was slipped into the watch case. Don't these papers usually have rounded edges to fit the contours of the cases.

The way this kind of printing plate is used is to fill the impressions with ink and then press damp paper against the plate. The smooth surface doesn't hold any ink. The lettering and design does hold the ink. Using a stamp pad wouldn't get you an impression as the plate is intended to be used.

It's called intaglio printing, look it up.

As far as the shape goes it was printed on square or rectangular paper and then the watchmaker used a pair of scissors to cut it out. He cut the circle to match the watch case he was putting it in. That way one plate could be used for many different size watch cases.

 

[ironman]

I am new to detecting but had the passion for years as you mentioned your reasons for detecting I have to say I started because I wanted the glory of finding riches others have lost but as I started mding around my area I got discouraged and hung up my equipment for about six months or more. I was sitting at wrk looking over another forum I like I realized it was the hunt that thrilled me not the treasure per say so I cleaned my equipment up and hit a tot lot and found a broach went home cleaned it and started research on trying to figure it out. Turned out to b trash but hey I had fun looking it up and learned a lot about different markings and such. So all in all it's awesome when you can put history in its place money would b nice but your name will live on for as long as that place stays open and there's nothing better than to see your name under a peace of history. That means more than money.

 

[kiana7]

Congrats,you made History WTG,,HH

 

[granthansen]

I can't tell if this is a joke or not. I'd be cautious about getting tax advice from a metal detecting forum, or trying to intuit tax law without competent guidance, but that's just me.

I love your idea of incorporating this find in a flyer. It might work for you and it might at least spark up a conversation or two. However, you're probably better off to forget about a deduction for an in-kind donation like this. IMHO, the fair market value of your find is somewhere between negligible and zero. I just can't imagine a competent appraiser finding otherwise, unless you know of some comparable sales or other means to value it. That doesn't mean it's not a very interesting find and it might contribute to someone's knowledge of history and such. I love your find but I caution you not to get too carried away with dreams of value.

Just enjoy your find and sharing with the museum and us and let it go. There's little likelihood of you profiting in any way from this find. If you simply can't stand the idea of maybe missing out on a deduction, you should probably read IRS Publication 561, Determining the Value of Donated Property.

Great find, though. Better than any relic I've ever found in the US.

Chuck

Chuck, thanks for the thorough answer, but I was indeed joking at least about wages and equipment. This piece does have some monetary value. Not a ton but I'll at least have some numbers to declare. But the real value for me is contributing a notable find to a place where it, and its former owner, can be appreciated and live on. How it wound up a foot deep in Nj over 100 years ago? I think that is the mystery I may never solve concretely.

 

[nov2101]

Told ya, banner find ( my opinion) when you frist posted. Truely, a class act.

 

[granthansen]

You could get an ink pad and stamp a few impressions yourself. I'd think it might have been used to slightly emboss the decorative elements into the round paper before it was slipped into the watch case. Don't these papers usually have rounded edges to fit the contours of the cases.

Correct. They were put into pocket watches as a form of both protection and advertisement. This is a good article about them: Confessions of a Bookplate Junkie: Watch Papers

 

[granthansen]

I am new to detecting but had the passion for years as you mentioned your reasons for detecting I have to say I started because I wanted the glory of finding riches others have lost but as I started mding around my area I got discouraged and hung up my equipment for about six months or more. I was sitting at wrk looking over another forum I like I realized it was the hunt that thrilled me not the treasure per say so I cleaned my equipment up and hit a tot lot and found a broach went home cleaned it and started research on trying to figure it out. Turned out to b trash but hey I had fun looking it up and learned a lot about different markings and such. So all in all it's awesome when you can put history in its place money would b nice but your name will live on for as long as that place stays open and there's nothing better than to see your name under a peace of history. That means more than money.

Awesome! My wife makes fun of me and says my theme song is "The Climb" by Miley Cyrus since I always tell her the thrill is in the hunt. But yes, the discovery and learning that result are equally if not more exciting!

 

[granthansen]

Congrats,you made History WTG,,HH

Well, I don't know if I made history, but I unearthed it Thanks!

 

[granthansen]

Told ya, banner find ( my opinion) when you frist posted. Truely, a class act.

Thanks!

 

[smcdmc]

Told ya, banner find ( my opinion) when you frist posted. Truely, a class act.

Not sure about banner, but certainly honorable mention.

 

[lost hunter]

Thanks all, I'm pretty stoked.

As for donations vs. sales... everyone has their reasons for why they enjoy this hobby, and their entitled to them. For me, I enjoy it on many levels:

1. It's meditative and me time: I can walk, swipe the ground, dig, and repeat. Aside from all the junk, it can be peaceful.
2. It teaches my patience: Most of my finds are garbage. We are looking for the diamond in the rough, which makes a good find a great find.
3. This particular piece wouldn't have landed me retirement or vacation money, plus thanks to my 7 plus hours of digging and sweating, John Mecke's legacy can live on in an appropriate place. Else, he may have been long forgotten (if he wasn't already).
4. The search doesn't end once unearthed. This particular piece (as others) led me down a road of research and discovery, much more than any history book has ever taught me.
5. Had I found some valuable bling that was untraceable and had no history tied to it, then yes, I'd take it right to the bank!

So, for me, I find value in all those aspects.

Awesome WTG

 

[milk86]

very cool

 

[Bev]

Just curious, do you have first shot at getting it back if the decide to just store it away? Don't some museums end up auctioning off items once in a while to make room and make money?

 

[granthansen]

Just curious, do you have first shot at getting it back if the decide to just store it away? Don't some museums end up auctioning off items once in a while to make room and make money?

I'm not too worried about it. They were honest with me. Once they have it, it'll be on display. They couldn't guarantee five years down the road, if the museum changes directors, or exhibits change, that it would always be out. But it will always be available and part of their online digital library. I kind of liken this to loaning money to a relative... I loan it with the expectation that I won't get paid back, otherwise, I won't loan it!

In this case, my pay back is helping John Mecke live on way beyond his time here Oh, and to shove it in the face of any friends and family who make fun of me for metal detecting!!

 

[northcal]

Thanks all, I'm pretty stoked.

As for donations vs. sales... everyone has their reasons for why they enjoy this hobby, and their entitled to them. For me, I enjoy it on many levels:

1. It's meditative and me time: I can walk, swipe the ground, dig, and repeat. Aside from all the junk, it can be peaceful.
2. It teaches my patience: Most of my finds are garbage. We are looking for the diamond in the rough, which makes a good find a great find.
3. This particular piece wouldn't have landed me retirement or vacation money, plus thanks to my 7 plus hours of digging and sweating, John Mecke's legacy can live on in an appropriate place. Else, he may have been long forgotten (if he wasn't already).
4. The search doesn't end once unearthed. This particular piece (as others) led me down a road of research and discovery, much more than any history book has ever taught me.
5. Had I found some valuable bling that was untraceable and had no history tied to it, then yes, I'd take it right to the bank!

So, for me, I find value in all those aspects.

Well said and well done.

 

[granthansen]

Thanks Northcal.

I'm anxious to see it one they have it cleaned up the right way, and how it will be displayed amongst the other jeweler stuff. I'll have to make a drive out there.