Kicked off library property??

[goodjoe]

MDIng a public library in Evansville Indiana and a lady comes out and says you can't do that here. I said ok sorry, and left. Then made a call to the dept of parks and recreation asking why a tax funded place can't allow metal detecting. Her response was NO public parks in the city allow it. Seriously?? I've been hunting them and cops don't ever stop when they drive by so I don't get it. Has anybody else ever heard no hunting in public parks at all? Just curious.

 

[Rawhide]

Dress in womans clothes and ask her help for a book, on witch craft and casting spells, evil ones lol.

 

[DirtAngler]

Some of the answers given here are exactly why areas get banned. All property belongs to somebody and just because it's public property doesn't give taxpayers the right to do what they want. Think of the mayhem that would cause if everyone could do what they wanted on public land. I think I'll archery practice at the kids playground since I pay taxes. Reality check.

 

[dholland02]

Some of the answers given here are exactly why areas get banned. All property belongs to somebody and just because it's public property doesn't give taxpayers the right to do what they want. Think of the mayhem that would cause if everyone could do what they wanted on public land. I think I'll archery practice at the kids playground since I pay taxes. Reality check.

I stand by how I do things my way, I've got in arguemebts on here b4 by it. If there's no signs saying you can't on public parks I'm MDing it. You go and start asking a million questions to the city people that's when your gonna get public places shut down. Just keep your mouth shut and go metal detecting. Ask permission on private properties is the only times I'm asking.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Some of the answers given here are exactly why areas get banned. All property belongs to somebody and just because it's public property doesn't give taxpayers the right to do what they want. Think of the mayhem that would cause if everyone could do what they wanted on public land. I think I'll archery practice at the kids playground since I pay taxes. Reality check.

Dirt-angler, seriously, do you see a difference between practicing archery in a tot-lot, verses metal detecting? Yes, there would be an automatic equivalence, if your definition of metal detecting = destruction and ruin. (In the same way you meant archery as "deadly and risky") Sure, if that's your definition of metal detecting is "destruction", then sure, ask away ("Hi, can I please destruct the park?"). But no, I do not define my hobby as destructive, vandalism, defacing, etc... since I will leave no trace of my presence. To think otherwise, and you've lost the battle already. You must think of yourself as innocuous as flying frisbees (which ...... gasp ...... you don't need permission for). Does this mean everyone will agree with these semantics? Of course not! Heck, I even had a lady say my detector bothered her dog! (she thought it was emitting some sound frequency or something?). If you think you can avoid all busy-bodies, then ... this hobby is not for you. You simply can not make everyone happy and love you all day long, with a hobby that has admitted connotations, and draws lookie lous.

Dholland02 is right: It's not the failure to ask "can I?" that gets places put off-limits. More often than not, it's the asking that is what's getting places put off limits. If not by rules written to "address this pressing issue", then by policy/practice/interpretation to address the question. The only thing "asking" often does, is make situations where no one cared ...... UNTIL you asked!

I can give you many such examples of places where no one ever had a problem or issue, and it was just considered open game. But all that changes when someone takes it upon themselves to go in to city hall, and ask "can I?". They find someone to tell them "no". And then ....... you got the old-timers scratching their heads thinking "since when?". See how that works? So in that case, who's the one who got places "put off limits"? See?

 

[DirtAngler]

My reply, though exaggerated, was to make the point to those who feel public property is open to anyone who pays taxes to use it as they like. Mainly to those who say go back when it's closed, or make them prove it. In my old township, that mentality got the township council to go ahead and ban detecting in all township parks because of a few metal detectorists who left holes uncovered. They were told by the parks commission they couldn't detect there. They went to a meeting and complained their taxes pay for the land so they should be able to detect the park. The commission decided to create an ordinance to ban metal detecting to prevent further incidences in this park. After discussion, they decided the ordinance would be for all the township parks and playing fields to prevent further problems. This is a large township and includes 8 parks and playgrounds as well as numerous playing fields.

 

[finderskeepers]

Ok...here goes...opinions please.

I have been detecting in this local park (Massachusetts, if it matters) for the last couple of months. I have been going "after hours" ie: after 5pm initially because that is all my schedule allowed, then after an "encounter", out of prudence. 2 Weeks ago a park employee rolled up with lights flashing and beeping his horn. He was waving and gesturing pretty wildly and saying"you can't do that here". When I asked him what , he said you can't use "that" here. I said " oh, is there an ordinace that says I can't detect in this park?". He hesitated and then switched gears without answering. He said, "No digging in this park" and I stated that I was not. He said that some lady called and said I was digging "big holes" ( of course I can't be 100% certain, but gut feeling was that this just seemed like a fabrication or embellishment ). I simply told him I was not, and she must be mistaken. He then advised me again, "No digging...even with your fingers".

Thanks to all of you, I have learned the proper procedure and become VERY adept at retrieving targets without causing damage. I am VERY concientous and diligent about this. I have retrieved easily 700-800 targets( trash and goodies) and can honestly say I have left NO( a fellow detectorist could argue against this) evidence/damage. I evaluate this each and every time I go.

My thought is that if I am "caught digging" and kicked out by this or another non-adminstrative park employee, I will simply just leave without conversation. But, I am also not comfortable accepting being banished for something that is not expressly forbidden and/or damaging.If I do end up speaking with a "supervisor", any suggestions on how to address the generic "defacing public property" argument? One part of me says, a rational conversation might include me pointing out what I've done over the last several months and asking for anyone to point out any damage. The other thinks how easy it would be for someone to find where the after school runningback, made a quick cut and turfed a spot, then blame it on me.

No, I'm not prepared to hire a lawyer and take this "all the way", but I also feel like there is much more to lose by saying nothing. I'm not sure how concerned I am about an "actual" ordinance against detecting, as there already seems to be a defacto one in place already.

Sorry for being wordy, to summarize...if we know there is NOT an ordinance re: metal detecting, what can we say about "digging" (probing or cutting plugs) that will carry weight against the " I ain't got time for this, you are defacing public property type statement"?

 

[extractor]

Some librarys are like privet proptery.
OK .,,, Just because it is a Public Library,,, that does not mean it is a part of the city in that location, Even thow the libary may have the same name as the city in which it stands. The city hall in some of these libarys don't pay the libary employees. I know It sounds nuts. Some are kind of like privet proptery but yet the funding still comes from the goverment and privet donations and funding that the libary can raise by other ways. I wish I could explain it better . May be some one else could.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... because of a few metal detectorists who left holes uncovered.....

well then that's an outside issue, all to itself, that does not lend itself to the question of "should we all go asking 'can I metal detect?' ". Because, sure, if someone left holes un-covered, then THAT'S the reason your example becomes an issue, NOT the issue of whether they asked "can I?"

Oh, and yes, thanx for admitting that the archery analogy was an exaggeration

 

[Tom_in_CA]

finderskeepers, I feel for you in this situation. It's hard to answer, because you've pretty much summed it up, when you realize that to "fight it" might just open you up to more scrutiny (a "pressing issue that needs to be addressed by higher ups"). But on the other hand, you know you're doing no harm, and thus .... should not technically be said to be running afoul of any verbage related to defacement and such.

As your guy said himself, the reason he was there, was "some lady called ....". So to me, it sounds like otherwise ..... perhaps you'd have been just fine and dandy. Did you happen to see some lady staring you down prior to the incident with the fellow in the truck? Or perhaps it was someone in a house that borders there?

I too have sometimes had an encounter, where a cop would say " ....we got a call about someone with a knife...", (or whatever). And perhaps they usher me on. But what's wierd is, perhaps cop cars passed me all day long prior to that, and no one cared. So you can see then, that sometimes the ONLY reason a public official (cop, park worker, etc...) even says anything to begin with, is to appease someone who's called in a complaint (when in fact, the worker or cop himself, would never have paid a second glance to you). So to be honest with you, sometimes (in the absence of any specific rule), I will just give a place "a rest", and ..... just go back 4 months later. I mean, what are the odds that the same lady will be walking her dog there again? (or however she happened to see you). I've had places where encounters like this happened, and then........ after giving it a rest, return 100 more times, and never have anyone say "boo" ever again. Perhaps if you're if in a teeny town with a single park employee this might not work .... but ..... otherwise, I never consider isolated incidents like this to be a rule from then on out.

 

[Gunrunner61]

I and my digging partner (one of them), Got run off a park this morning. No big deal we left, When the mayor gets back, my partner is good friends with him, is
going to find out the lowdown on the deal. We've been looking here for years, The same park where i found the Ring I posted the other day. So we'll wait and speak to the man who knows!.........................HH

 

[Bum Luck]

Conversely, they could ask you to show where it is allowed.

The First Ammendment does not allow you to spray paint words on City Hall. And digging holes to remove objects can be seen as distructive to property. Out State Parks forbid it. Not to mention with this litigious society they don't want you stabbing yourself in the foot with your trowel and sueing the city or county (or whoever owns the property).

Sorry, Charlie, it doesn't work that way. Show me where it's specifically allowed in City Code to breathe - better hurry now..............

Spray painting isn't a reasonable expression of opinion.

Digging holes may be destructive to property, and then again , may not.

Stabbing yourself in the foot? Not a legal scholar, huh? Most states have a recreational liability statute, in which you can't sue the public for a recreational accident, unless they're negligent. People rock climb in state parks.

Hmmm...Not familliar with your area, but our "Public Libraries" are still on Private property...the "Public", just means that the public helps fund the purchase of the books, equipment, and helps pay the light bill...The property the Library sits on is still Private. Also, the looking for a sign thing does not always stand if the City, County or State has a code on the books against detecting in public parks...Remember...Ignorance of the law does not make you exempt.

HH,

I'd say that's unusual. Most public places are owned by the municipality in question; even the vast majority.

forcing the issue by trying to hunt during the hours the libery is open and she is there watching (thus not honoring her supposed" authority) and ms "books" will "offically"whine to the city officals (ever thought about doing it "after hours" when she and any other busy bodies just are not there? thus "avoiding" her/ them totally? however if she sees "dead grass spots" look out -- because once she "offically whines" the city politican types in typical knee jerk reaction will then say "a law /rule/ policy is needed" and poof they will make one "appear" in print that will be "on the books" and that will 100% shut down metal detecting on all of your citys "publicly owned lands" --don't believe me? ok just try it and see for yourself , what occurs -- sadly at times it is often best to forgo a "troulblesome spot" and find other places to detect--

I absolutely agree. I don't hunt tot lots when kids are playing there, even though I am a 'taxpayer'; I look at my activity as a secondary use, and if you don't agree, read Ivan's post again to see what will happen with a complaint or two.

I didn't get a reason, law, code, etc. I figured I'd let it sit and think about it before I put my foot in my mouth. I looked at the Indiana gov site and couldn't find any rules on parks...........

Tom has it right; state law has little to do with municipal facilities. Look in local codes.

I and my digging partner (one of them), Got run off a park this morning. No big deal we left, When the mayor gets back, my partner is good friends with him, is
going to find out the lowdown on the deal. We've been looking here for years, The same park where i found the Ring I posted the other day. So we'll wait and speak to the man who knows!.........................HH

Obviously, that's the way to do it. So, you say, I don't know the Mayor or aldermen? Well, why not? You're part of government as a citizen, aren't you? They're just people, same as you and I, that for some reason - some good and some not so good - choose to do this responsibility.


Most of the whining I see on here is nothing more than self-serving and even argumentative delusion about what sort of 'rights' you have in this hobby. Push it, and you'll see who makes the rules. On the other hand, try to be a reasonable and helpful citizen, and you might find that folks may actually understand and accept detecting. And then again since there are no guarantees in life, maybe not.

You can always take your fight to court.

 

[LewieMD]

Conversely, they could ask you to show where it is allowed.

The First Ammendment does not allow you to spray paint words on City Hall. And digging holes to remove objects can be seen as distructive to property. Out State Parks forbid it. Not to mention with this litigious society they don't want you stabbing yourself in the foot with your trowel and sueing the city or county (or whoever owns the property).

Hi Charlie: perhaps I am misreading your post. I have a NYS Permit to MD in specified State Parks (as you probably do). So what is forbidden? Digging and removing objects?

Lew

 

[badger]

I don't know why a library would be a good place to metal detect to start with.

 

[dholland02]

I don't know why a library would be a good place to metal detect to start with.

Some library's can be very old depending on your town. Plus alot of foot traffic why not??

 

[hamer81]

Never a problem here..I've only been mdin for a month now and didn't even know you could go to local public parks to hunt, I learned that on this forum. So I looked online for rules ect. But nothing so I call the town office an the lady on the phone told me, anytime sir we just like you to replace all soil removed and good luck. So simple

 

[FLauthor]

Why are you hunting public parks when there are virgin sites out there that have never had a metal detector waved over it. Here are some tips to get started. Become a member of the local historical society and tell them you want to be their field operator for old home sites, old bottle dumps, ect. You'll probably have more sites then you can possibly hunt, get your hunting buddies involved. Give a percentage of your finds to the historical society museum with your name as the finder. Something you can point out to your kids or grandkids. These are some of the things you can be doing when it's too dang cold to be metal detecting.

Vanderburgh County (Evansville) Historical Society
http://vchshistory.org/
Mr. Mike Linderman, Western Regional Manager for State Historic Sites spoke on the work of Eli Lilly and Glenn Black on the WPA facility that they built in 1939 at Angel Mounds. The facility was razed around 1977. Mr. Linderman will also discuss the goal of reconstructing the facility to be not only an historically accurate representation of the original but also a functioning resource for archaeological researchers working in SW Indiana. Offer to sweep the grounds for relics and artifacts that might be added to their display. This might prove fruitful for you and the historical society.

Have you read the book A history of Evansville and Vanderburgh County, Indiana
published in 1897.
A history of Evansville and Vanderburgh County, Indiana : a complete and concise account from the earliest times to the present, embracing reminiscences of the pioneers and biographical sketches of the men who have been leaders in commercial and othe

Evansville in the Civil War
Evansville in the Civil War: History

Historical Markers
http://home.comcast.net/~rkemps/Mixdocs/Historical_Markers_in_Indiana.pdf
Where was the Confederate POW camp located in Evansville?

Go to the Evansville Tax office and ask for the old Government Survey Maps to find pioneer cabins, crossroads, stage stations, ferry crossings, villages that are today extinct. Ask if they have an old historical map(s). Find something interesting, then tax office can pinpoint on modern map and tell you who owns it so permission can be sought. If you find something interesting be sure to report it here. You're welcome!

 

[dholland02]

Why wouldnt u be hunting public places, common sense here but publi places = dropped coins and jewelry. Pretty simple every MDer hunting public places

 

[finderskeepers]

Why wouldnt u be hunting public places, common sense here but publi places = dropped coins and jewelry. Pretty simple every MDer hunting public places

YUP! I have about 650 reasons to be hunting one of my local parks. Virgin sites certainly have appeal and I am currently researching several...but NOT hunting my local park...the thought never crossed my mind after the first day there.