King George III with strange markings

[vpone]

Hey guys,

I found a beautiful KGIII that has a "U M" on the cheek of the bust - it is not counter stamped it looks like it was part of the die. The coin detail is amazing (the scan does not do it justice) Only problem is the date area is the worst part of the coin - any help id'ing this coin is appreciated.

vp

edit: looks like there might be another letter before the "UM" - maybe an I ?

 

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[Iron Patch]

A really cool find, it is a NJ (reverse side) copper struck over (I think, not under) a counterfeit KGIII copper, which I still have not determined which variety Machins if it is.......

My friend noted this: If you look below the Unum in the middle of Georges neck you will see the lines of the shield horizontally across most of the coin. the point of the shield is facing the same directon as Georges face (to the right). It is plainly visible except the shield is sideways.....

So, here is a rotated negative shot of you coin.

that makes perfect sense now - i saw those lines below the neck and just figured mine had more detail than the ones i was comparing it to, but it makes perfect sense now that you pointed that out ...

so, is this a common thing or could i consider this a "special" coin ?

vp

It is special, but being the M. mills is a counterfeit, I don't think there will be huge interest because it's just a matter of them using what was available. Where counterfeits get interesting is where the muling of dies makes a connection, and it being bewteen something like a M. Mills and NJ would have been great. It's rare, but does happen because I just seen two listings for M. Mills muled with CT coppers. Anyway, that's my take, but my take counts for about ZERO Wait and see what the people who count have to say.

Basically my point is the Machin people were not in possession of the NJ die, and that is the type of thing that would have made it a bigtime find. I am very curious to find out more on this one. Anytime two of these cross in any way it's always interesting, but just how intere$ting. Would Hogge get excited.

 

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[CRUSADER]

Missed all of this, what an extremely rare find & I know those coin nuts in the US would bite your hand off

 

[Kyle PA]

Kevin,

Prior to looking at this thread this morning, I emailed Don and showed him the pics that I took of you and Paco's coins yesterday. I specifically asked him if the one was a Machins Mills, which, by now, we know it is! Congrats on a super special copper, Kevin!

Kyle

P.S. I can send the pics I took yesterday to you if want them? I didn't want to post them here without your permission.

 

[johnnyi]

"It is special, but being the M. mills is a counterfeit, I don't think there will be huge interest because it's just a matter of them using what was available. Where counterfeits get interesting is where the muling of dies makes a connection, and it being bewteen something like a M. Mills and NJ would have been great."

IP, there does seem to be a connection, as Yeoman, as well as I'm sure more complete sources that Don is probably aware of, say that Machin's Mills did produce N.J. Cents (as well as a Conecticut cent which you mentioned before as an example being "muled") . If the N.J. obverse can be identified exactly then at least that design of the New Jersey copper might be attributable to Machin's Mills.

 

[Iron Patch]

"It is special, but being the M. mills is a counterfeit, I don't think there will be huge interest because it's just a matter of them using what was available. Where counterfeits get interesting is where the muling of dies makes a connection, and it being bewteen something like a M. Mills and NJ would have been great."

IP, there does seem to be a connection, as Yeoman, as well as I'm sure more complete sources that Don is probably aware of, say that Machin's Mills did produce N.J. Cents (as well as a Conecticut cent which you mentioned before as an example being "muled") . If the N.J. obverse can be identified exactly then at least that design of the New Jersey copper might be attributable to Machin's Mills.

This is interesting... part about not being content just to make dies for NJ.

http://www.bunkerhillrarecoin.com/?id=22

It seems there may be a lot riding on knowing the variety. I don't really know enough about the M. mint to try and figure this one out, but it seems like an interesting topic to read about. My Forgotten coins book has a few pages dedicated to it and probably worth checking out.

 

[RPG]

Can we please see this on the banner now? I have not seen a more deserving coin this year (uh, well last year). Rare and valueable. What more do you need.

 

[dneyedli@res1.mts.net]

Can we please see this on the banner now? I have not seen a more deserving coin this year (uh, well last year). Rare and valueable. What more do you need.

I agree 100%
My vote is in.
Dave.