L-rod Technique: Its a Hoax

[EE THr]

L-rod Technique: It's a Hoax

L-rod methodology has big problems---it's all a hoax!

The following is excerpted from tests and evaluations done at the National Criminal Justice Reference Service---

"Modern dowsers have been developing various new methods to add discrimination to their devices. These new methods include molecular frequency discrimination (MFD) and harmonic induction discrimination (HID). MFD has taken the form of everything from placing a xerox copy of a Polaroid photograph of the desired material into the handle of the device, to using dowsing rods in conjunction with frequency generation electronics (function generators). None of these attempts to create devices that can detect specific materials such as explosives (or any materials for that matter) have been proven successful in controlled double-blind scientific tests. In fact, all testing of these inventions has shown these devices to perform no better than random chance."

 

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[aarthrj3811]

Re: L-rod Technique: It's a Hoax

2.5.3.8 EXPRAY Field Test Kit is the tittle of the report
The full discussion on this report can be found here.... http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,321542.0.html

 

[EE THr]

Re: L-rod Technique: It's a Hoax

2.5.3.8 EXPRAY Field Test Kit is the tittle of the report
The full discussion on this report can be found here.... http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,321542.0.html

That link is already provided at the bottom on the target page of the link I just posted, above.

But thanks, anyway.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: L-rod Technique: It's a Hoax

~EE~

ref: http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/178913-2.pdf
Credit: Originally found and posted by SWR.

~Art~
2.5.3.8 EXPRAY Field Test Kit is the tittle of the report
The full discussion on this report can be found here.... http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,321542.0.html

 

[EE THr]

Re: L-rod Technique: It's a Hoax

~EE~

ref: http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/178913-2.pdf
Credit: Originally found and posted by SWR.

~Art~
2.5.3.8 EXPRAY Field Test Kit is the tittle of the report
The full discussion on this report can be found here.... http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,321542.0.html

I was wrong, I thought it was the link to the original report. I apologize.

Your link is actually to the page where Dell Winders claimed that the authors of the NCJRS article were "sneaky little cowards" because they didn't put their names on it; and Carl showed how wrong he was about that false accusation, because their names really are in the article.

Great find! Thanks!






P.S. You will have to come up with more proof than you did on that thread (in other words, none), before you can call it a fake.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: L-rod Technique: It's a Hoax

~EE~
Your link is actually to the page where Dell Winders claimed that the authors of the NCJRS article were "sneaky little cowards" because they didn't put their names on it; and Carl showed how wrong he was about that false accusation, because their names really are in the article.
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,321542.0.html

Which web site did you go to?...It could not have been the one where we asked a question and the Official report amazedly changed. I know Dell Winders and did not see any posts by him in that thread..Check the web site again and learn the truth...Art

 

[EE THr]

Re: L-rod Technique: It's a Hoax

~EE~
Your link is actually to the page where Dell Winders claimed that the authors of the NCJRS article were "sneaky little cowards" because they didn't put their names on it; and Carl showed how wrong he was about that false accusation, because their names really are in the article.
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,321542.0.html

Which web site did you go to?...It could not have been the one where we asked a question and the Official report amazedly changed. I know Dell Winders and did not see any posts by him in that thread..Check the web site again and learn the truth...Art

It's this Website, and this section of the forum, just a different topic---

Although the unknown author is a sneaky coward who is afraid to provide his real name on the Internet...

The sneaky cowards are:

Dr. Charles L. Rhykerd
David W. Hannum
Dale W. Murray
Dr. John E. Parmeter

of the Contraband Detection Technologies Department, Sandia National Laboratories. As clearly stated in the original document.

It appears that Dell removed all his posts. But they were obviously there at one time.

But of course, you already know all of this, don't you. You even replied to Dell, in your own posts there! Very sneaky attempt on your part, to falsify information here in this thread.

Hey Dell …

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: L-rod Technique: It's a Hoax

~EE THr~

It's this Website, and this section of the forum, just a different topic---

OK..If you do not want the truth about the alleged 2.5.3.8 EXPRAY Field Test Kit is the title of the report that is your right but I am tired of discussing that same old topics.

It appears that Dell removed all his posts. But they were obviously there at one time.

The key word in that sentence seems to be appears

But of course, you already know all of this, don't you. You even replied to Dell, in your own posts there! Very sneaky attempt on your part, to falsify information here in this thread.

What are you talking about?...Where have I been Very sneaky attempt on your part, to falsify information here in this thread?.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,321542.msg2325942.html#msg2325942
Re: U.S. Department of Justice warnings on "new technologies"
Reply To This Topic #21 Posted May 16, 2010, 06:19:02 pm
Quote

Quote from: Dell Winders on May 16, 2010, 01:50:20 pm
No, that is not true! Copy cats, maybe? But if you want to call them that, that is your business. That is not me saying it.

You called the author of the document "a sneaky coward who is afraid to provide his real name on the Internet." Yet the author's names are clearly listed on the document. So now they are no longer sneaky cowards, but "copy cats" instead? Is that a euphemism for plagiarists?

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,321542.msg2323290.html#msg2323290
Re: U.S. Department of Justice warnings on "new technologies"
Reply To This Topic #8 Posted May 15, 2010, 07:15:56 am
Quote Modify Remove

Hey Dell …Just another attempt by the Skeptics to pretend that they are presenting “Proof” One of the funny things is that it is in the middle of a report on how to use a 2.5.3.8 EXPRAY Field Test Kit. EXPRAY is a unique, aerosol-based field test ......
The Sad part is that he probably is a Federal Employee and the Tax Payers foot the bill for this fake Skeptical jargon out…

Read and weep...Art

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: L-rod Technique: It's a Hoax

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This was what the report was about...Why would anyone but a skeptic put false information about LRL’s in the middle of this report...
Art

 

[EE THr]

Re: L-rod Technique: It's a Hoax

~EE THr~

It's this Website, and this section of the forum, just a different topic---

OK..If you do not want the truth about the alleged 2.5.3.8 EXPRAY Field Test Kit is the title of the report that is your right but I am tired of discussing that same old topics.

You keep (wrongly) insisting that someone prove that LRLs don't work, and then when the do, you simply say the proof is "fake." That's easy to say, but you haven't provided any convincing documentation that the NCJRS report is fake. It's as official as it gets. It's right on the U.S. Government Website---how could anyone fake that? It shows how the tests were carried out, so anyone can repeat the tests (remember "repeatability" in the Scientific Method?), and see for themselves. Nobody has rationally refuted it---we only have you, merely calling it "fake." That won't cut it, for anyone with any common sense at all! Sorry!

It appears that Dell removed all his posts. But they were obviously there at one time.

The key word in that sentence seems to be appears

And the key word in your sentence appears to be "seems." Let's face it, Dell posted in that thread, and then removed his posts, and you know it!

But of course, you already know all of this, don't you. You even replied to Dell, in your own posts there! Very sneaky attempt on your part, to falsify information here in this thread.

What are you talking about?...Where have I been Very sneaky attempt on your part, to falsify information here in this thread?

Uh---THIS ONE! Ya think?---

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,321542.0.html

Which web site did you go to?.... I know Dell Winders and did not see any posts by him in that thread..Check the web site again and learn the truth...Art

The Sad part is that he probably is a Federal Employee and the Tax Payers foot the bill for this fake Skeptical jargon out…

And that's where you try to brush off the entire report, simply by calling it "fake."

That doesn't work in the Real World! Sorry!

As usual, the debunkers post factual information, with documented references and links,, and the only way you can respond is with BS instead of any real proof! Just like with your imaginary "LRL" devices!


Read and weep...Art

Do you get it now?

 

[EE THr]

Re: L-rod Technique: It's a Hoax

This was what the report was about...Why would anyone but a skeptic put false information about LRL’s in the middle of this report...
Art

Read, read, read. I keep telling you that, but you never do.

...It says why they included information about fraudulent devices, right there in the report.

But, instead of reading the report, you only whine that they updated it, and claim that routine updating somehow means it is "fake." You need to do much better than that to rationally refute an official document. Your feeble attempts to mislead people are so sad....

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: L-rod Technique: It's a Hoax

EE THr

You keep (wrongly) insisting that someone prove that LRLs don't work, and then when the do, you simply say the proof is "fake." That's easy to say, but you haven't provided any convincing documentation that the NCJRS report is fake. It's as official as it gets. It's right on the U.S. Government Website---how could anyone fake that? It shows how the tests were carried out, so anyone can repeat the tests (remember "repeatability" in the Scientific Method?), and see for themselves. Nobody has rationally refuted it---we only have you, merely calling it "fake." That won't cut it, for anyone with any common sense at all! Sorry!

This the whole purpose of the report is to help people check for explosives
Initially, a suspected surface (of a package, a person’s clothing, etc.) is wiped with the special
test paper. The paper is then sprayed with EXPRAY-1. The appearance of a dark violet-brown
color indicates the presence of TNT, a blue-green color indicates the presence of DNT, and an
orange color indicates the presence of other Group A explosives. If there is no reaction, the same
piece of test paper is then sprayed with EXPRAY-2. The appearance of a pink color indicates the
presence of Group B explosives, a group which includes most plastic explosives. If there is still
no reaction, the same paper is then sprayed with EXPRAY-3. The appearance of pink then
indicates the presence of nitrates, which could be part of an improvised explosive. If EXPRAY-2

And the key word in your sentence appears to be "seems." Let's face it, Dell posted in that thread, and then removed his posts, and you know it!

Are you positive that “Dell” removed his posts or did “Marc” do that?

And that's where you try to brush off the entire report, simply by calling it "fake."

I think the report would be helpful to people who’s job it is to inspect a package, a person’s clothing, etc. for explosives

As usual, the debunkers post factual information, with documented references and links,, and the only way you can respond is with BS instead of any real proof! Just like with your imaginary "LRL" devices!

We discussed it for months at http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,321542.0.html then you come along and want all the proof talked about again.

 

[EE THr]

Re: L-rod Technique: It's a Hoax

I know Dell Winders....
...Art

Of course you do. And you also know that he came back a year later, and got himself a brand new username, too, right?

He is now calling himself humble.

I can only guess that he either got banned, or was so embarrased that he had to change his name.

Oh well....

 

[EE THr]

Re: L-rod Technique: It's a Hoax

We discussed it for months at http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,321542.0.html then you come along and want all the proof talked about again.

It's official, documented, Scientific proof that LRLs are fraudulent---just what you have asked for many, many times.

Yet neither you, nor anyone else, has ever provided appropriately documented Scientific proof that they work.

Sorry.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: L-rod Technique: It's a Hoax

~EE THr~

It's official, documented, Scientific proof that LRLs are fraudulent---just what you have asked for many, many times.

You see Scientific proof and all I see is a statement by someone on a website in a report about how to use this explosive test kit on stuff that would be worn..

Yet neither you, nor anyone else, has ever provided appropriately documented Scientific proof that they work.

You are the one that will not except any of the documented Scientific proof..We have @70 testimonials here on T-Net, 100’s of testimonials on the internet, 100’s of photos of treasure finds and a lot of movies showing treasure finds.
Since we have shot holes in everyone of your personal believes you have nothing to talk about except to rehash old out dated posts..Art

 

[EE THr]

Re: L-rod Technique: It's a Hoax

~EE THr~

It's official, documented, Scientific proof that LRLs are fraudulent---just what you have asked for many, many times.

You see Scientific proof and all I see is a statement by someone on a website in a report about how to use this explosive test kit on stuff that would be worn..

Yet neither you, nor anyone else, has ever provided appropriately documented Scientific proof that they work.

You are the one that will not except any of the documented Scientific proof..We have @70 testimonials here on T-Net, 100’s of testimonials on the internet, 100’s of photos of treasure finds and a lot of movies showing treasure finds.
Since we have shot holes in everyone of your personal believes you have nothing to talk about except to rehash old out dated posts..Art

When you rehash all of your old, worn-out claims, and never have any Real Proof, what do you expect?

Besides you are the one who has the burden to prove your wild claims, but can't.

I'm not making any claims, I'm merely challenging your claims.

So I don't have any claims which require proof. But, since you keep asking for proof, I went ahead and posted some for you (as have others). Yet you are unwilling to even try and produce any actual, properly documented, Scientific proof at all. Instead, you try to pass-off unsupported testimonials, altered photos, and slight-of-hand videos, as substitutes for real proof. Sorry, that doesn't work in the Real World.

If you want so badly to show proof, why don't you produce some real, verifiable, Scientific evidence? Instead of just more lame claims, and stories about yourself and your LRL promoter buddies?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: L-rod Technique: It's a Hoax

~EE THr~

When you rehash all of your old, worn-out claims, and never have any Real Proof, what do you expect?

You are the one that will not except any of the documented Scientific proof..We have @70 testimonials here on T-Net, 100’s of testimonials on the internet, 100’s of photos of treasure finds and a lot of movies showing treasure finds.
What do you call these claims from real treasure hunters?

Besides you are the one who has the burden to prove your wild claims, but can't.

Yes..That has always’s been your claim

I'm not making any claims, I'm merely challenging your claims.

Gee..the sentence above you just made a claim

So I don't have any claims which require proof. But, since you keep asking for proof, I went ahead and posted some for you (as have others). Yet you are unwilling to even try and produce any actual, properly documented, Scientific proof at all. Instead, you try to pass-off unsupported testimonials, altered photos, and slight-of-hand videos, as substitutes for real proof. Sorry, that doesn't work in the Real World.

We have explained away all your Proof’s just like we did in this thread.. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,321542.0.html

If you want so badly to show proof, why don't you produce some real, verifiable, Scientific evidence? Instead of just more lame claims, and stories about yourself and your LRL promoter buddies?

Eye witness evidence is a form of real Proof in my world..We know that you do not trust what your eyes see and read..Art

"The door to Knowledge & Understanding, is never open to a closed, or prejudiced mind”

 

[EddieR]

Re: L-rod Technique: It's a Hoax

~EE THr~

It's official, documented, Scientific proof that LRLs are fraudulent---just what you have asked for many, many times.

You see Scientific proof and all I see is a statement by someone on a website in a report about how to use this explosive test kit on stuff that would be worn..

Yet neither you, nor anyone else, has ever provided appropriately documented Scientific proof that they work.

You are the one that will not except any of the documented Scientific proof..We have @70 testimonials here on T-Net, 100’s of testimonials on the internet, 100’s of photos of treasure finds and a lot of movies showing treasure finds.
Since we have shot holes in everyone of your personal believes you have nothing to talk about except to rehash old out dated posts..Art

You might as well just forget it, Art. Even though they claim (yes, they are claims, even though they say they never claim anything) that they have plenty of "proof", and have posted it here....when the "proof" is only postings made by them in the first place...it shows that they actually lack ANY proof and must resort to making their own.

Here is something interesting that offers a glimpse into the pseudo-skeptic mind: When I came on here and told my story about using a LRL, I was told I was mistaken, it was luck, etc. When I refused to back down, I was then called a liar. When I refused to back down from THAT, I was accused of being a salesman. Now, since I am interested in the LRL phenomenon, I am called a LRL promoter. Whatever.

Now here is the funny part: I was asked many times how I knew the LRL was successful in finding my ring. I received emails from the skeptical community asking questions. Recently, I changed my story when I discovered that the LRL I used before was indeed just a dowsing device. When I posted that, a few of the skeptical community applauded my change of mind, mostly by email, but a couple were on here. Now, here is the part that PROVES to me that their "scientific system" that THEY use is based only on what they WANT to believe: Not once was I asked what tests I performed that changed my mind. Not once. You see, it appears that the tests REALLY don't matter, as long as you arrive at the same conclusion as them. Now if anyone wants to offer proof contrary to that statement, I'm all ears.

But I don't think there will be any forthcoming....not acceptable proof, anyway.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: L-rod Technique: It's a Hoax

Thank you EddieR for your testimonial..It is the truth so of course it is not true. That is just how their minds work..
Weather you found your ring by dowsing or with the LRL makes no difference..You were able to recover it..Art

 

[EE THr]

Re: L-rod Technique: It's a Hoax

~EE THr~

When you rehash all of your old, worn-out claims, and never have any Real Proof, what do you expect?

You are the one that will not except any of the documented Scientific proof..We have @70 testimonials here on T-Net, 100’s of testimonials on the internet, 100’s of photos of treasure finds and a lot of movies showing treasure finds.
What do you call these claims from real treasure hunters?

What you are unable to understand, is the difference between telling a story, such as you just did, and verifiable proof. What you just said is not Scientific Proof.

I've tried to help you. When you asked me how you could provide Scientific Proof, I gave you an entire thread. But all you did was spam that thread, rather than even trying to prove your claims.

I really don't care if you prove yourself or not---because that is entirely your problem. If you make claims, and insult people who challenge them, then it's your problem as to how you're going to prove yourself. I assure you that it's not by merely making more claims, or insulting people.

But it's your reputation, so it's totally up to you.

But if you continue to insist that people "believe" your fantastic claims, without proving them, I think you are just asking for a lot of flak from others who have more common sense than to just take your word for it.

An honest person is happy to prove what he says, whenever asked to do so.

Besides you are the one who has the burden to prove your wild claims, but can't.

Yes..That has always’s been your claim

No, that's not a claim. I've shown you the definition of "burden of proof" many times, but you just ignore it. The "burden of proof" is standard, accepted practice, in all areas of life. Just more common sense. Every time you ignore it, your credibility is lost. But, again, that's your problem, and only you can solve it (the correct way).

I'm not making any claims, I'm merely challenging your claims.

Gee..the sentence above you just made a claim

Nope. It is merely stating standard practice, as I said above.

So I don't have any claims which require proof. But, since you keep asking for proof, I went ahead and posted some for you (as have others). Yet you are unwilling to even try and produce any actual, properly documented, Scientific proof at all. Instead, you try to pass-off unsupported testimonials, altered photos, and slight-of-hand videos, as substitutes for real proof. Sorry, that doesn't work in the Real World.

We have explained away all your Proof’s just like we did in this thread.. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,321542.0.html

You didn't "explain away" anything. A nonsensical "explanation" does not make the truth go away.

If you want so badly to show proof, why don't you produce some real, verifiable, Scientific evidence? Instead of just more lame claims, and stories about yourself and your LRL promoter buddies?

Eye witness evidence is a form of real Proof in my world..We know that you do not trust what your eyes see and read..Art

Just saying that you have eye witness evidence, and having your fellow LRL promoters, and people like your buddy Dell, come on here and say that LRLs work, is not real evidence. Like I said above, it's your reputation, and so it's up to you to either provide real evidence, of suffer loss of credibility.


"The door to Knowledge & Understanding, is never open to a closed, or prejudiced mind”

Your mind is closed to common sense, if you expect others to simply "believe" everything you say. And especially concerning LRLs. If you can't figure that out, then there's not much hope for you.