Large SPHERES....what are they?

[stranger]

Found this in an field where farming has taken place for years and years...any ideas at all? I'd guess it to weigh close to 20# total. The rod connecting the two spheres is solidly attached and about 3/4" separates them. Also, the rod is about 1" in diameter.

 

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[Michelle]

Michelle, there wasn't anything offensive posted, only humor. It's a joke, right
Regards,
Doc

it's a warning to not keep it up until it gets worse.......

O.K. don't take it any further, don't you do it! BUTTTTTT we got away, all of us, with a lot of humor while we were investigating our shafted, spherical objects, weren't we Did it ever go too far? No, you had to use imagination, which is exactly what we have to do to post a picture on this, or don't you agree?

Doc

Sorry DOC What were you saying...I slipped on the door stop...I got humor....a sense of it Doc...Hey, this thing could be wheels to a medievil skateboard....thunk so....HEY T Tramp what do you think?

 

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[SomeGuy]

Re: Large Balls....what are they?

All right, so it's something other than bar shot according to your description BUT the hollow bursting bomb fired from cannons was a carcasse filed with powder and fitted with a fuse, NOT case shot. Once more look at my response and look at the picture.

Doc

I keep typing Case Shot and you keep reading carcass.

CARCASS: Spherical shell which had four holes, the same size as a fuze hole, formed around the center at equal distances apart. The holes were filled with a combustible composition which burned with intense power for eight to ten minutes. The flame shooting from the holes set fire to everything combustible. Carcass was used in bombardments, to set fire to shipping, and to set fire to the enemy’s works

I refer you, once again, to the cut away view I posted of a 12 pounder Case Shot. You will note that 1) it contains a bursting charge. 2) If all the explosive elements are removed, you are left with a sphere which has a single countersunk hole and a cavity into which, if you desired, you could pound a short iron rod. It also happens that a 12 pounder Case Shot is consistant with both the size and the weight reported by Stranger.


As I previously stated, I believe it is an improvised item fashioned from materials at hand. The very nature of improvised items is that they are fashioned on the spot, to meet a specific need. They do not follow any standardized form. Their use is often temporary, and they are frequently replaced or discarded in short order.

What we have here may be nothing more than the result of the interaction between two Case Shot, an iron bar, a 3 lb. hammer, and an 8 yr. old kid.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=diving doc
DOOR "STOP!DOOR STOP"! I like the sound of that
**************
Agreed, stop door stop!

Tropical (SAINT AGAIN ) Tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Large Balls....what are they?

[=SomeGuy ]
All right, so it's something other than bar shot according to your description
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HMMM NOT MINE ! His doesn't count.
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What we have here may be nothing more than the result of the interaction between two Case Shot, an iron bar, a 3 lb. hammer, and an 8 yr. old kid.
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How did I get into this ?

Tropical ( the Saint ) Tramp !

 

[SomeGuy]

I'm familiar with your source, you should examine it more carefully. A carcass is an incendiary round, with several holes.

I refer you again to the cut-away of a Case Shot.

I repeat, I never said it was a bar shot. I maintain it is an improvised weight made by joining two Case Shot.

 

[SomeGuy]

http://www.civilwarartillery.com/

 

[SomeGuy]

My source on the carcass (above) is Artillery through the ages, the same as your post # 163.

As for the Civil war artillery site:

CASE-SHOT: Also known as spherical case-shot. Similar to the common shell except that the walls of the projectile were thinner. In both spherical and rifled projectiles, the bursting charge was usually located in a thin tin or iron container and placed in the center of the internal cavity. The case-shot was placed around this container. The cavity was usually filled with lead or iron balls in a sulphur or pitch matrix. The small bursting charge of black powder was designed to disperse the case-shot balls in a cone-shaped pattern. The concept was to give the same effects of canister, but at much longer ranges. Spherical case-shot was invented by an Englishman named Lieutenant Henry Shrapnel of the Royal Artillery in 1784. For an example of a cross-section of a case-shot projectile.

And they have photos.

 

[Chagy]

You guys have not been able to find whos what are these b....

Come on!!!! its some kind of cannon ball....what else?

Best,

Chagy.......

 

[Michelle]

doc...I think your talking to yourself again.....

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=diving doc
=Michelle link=topic=39122.msg283606#msg283606 date=1151633535]
doc...I think your talking to yourself again.....
Happens every time I trip over the door stop
********
So I have noticed, and after a few zombies only.

Incidentally, putting a "used bar shot" to serve as a door stop is a good idea.

Don Tropical Tramp el SANTO

 

[SomeGuy]

Doc:

To quote an old movie:

“What we have here, is a failure to communicate!”

I have come to the realization that we are actually speaking two different languages. Having lived in the United States my entire life, I don’t speak the Queen’s English, I speak American English. You seem to be speaking a more eclectic version of the language



. http://machaut.uchicago.edu/CGI-BIN/WEBSTER.page.sh?page=222


Case shot
Case" shot` (?). (Mil.) A collection of small projectiles, inclosed in a case or canister. &hand; In the United States a case shot is a thin spherical or oblong cast-iron shell containing musket balls and a bursting charge, with a time fuse; -- called in Europe shrapnel. In Europe the term case shot is applied to what in the United States is called canister. Wilhelm.


(My emphasis.)

An example of this strictly American usage is illustrated in Capt. McCarthy’s report of action near Fredricksburg. (below) He uses the terms “case shot” and “spherical case shot” interchangeably,

“The distance from my battery being about 1,300 yards, the projectiles used were case shot and percussion shells, the effect being very satisfactory.”

1300 yds. is beyond the effective range of canister.

He then tallies the rounds used as “Spherical case shot, 52 rounds; percussion shell, 20 rounds; total, 72” and notes that “about 8 rounds of the case shot did not explode”.



No. 35. Report of Captain Jeremiah McCarthy, Battery C, First Pennsylvania Light Artillery.

OPPOSITE FREDERICKSBURG, VA., December 19, 1862.

SIR: The following is my report of the operations of my battery during the late engagements:

The battery was placed upon a commanding elevation, opposite a small stream, called Deep Run, on the night of December 10, with instructions to fire upon any person or body of men who should interfere or obstruct the throwing across of pontoon bridges, and to protect the passage of our troops across them.

Just before the completion of the bridges, the enemy, numbering about 300, appeared in a ravine on the opposite side, firing occasional shots among those who were constructing the bridges. A few shots from my battery, in connection with several other batteries, caused them to retire. The distance from my battery being about 1,300 yards, the projectiles used were case shot and percussion shells, the effect being very satisfactory.

Friday, December 12, according to instructions, opened on the enemy's batteries on the opposite hills, the distance being about 2 1/2 miles. The projectiles used were percussion shell and case shot, only a few of which reached the desired point.

During Saturday, Sunday, and Monday I fired occasional shots.

The following is the number of rounds fired in the above engagements: Spherical case shot, 52 rounds; percussion shell, 20 rounds; total, 72.

During the firing I noticed that about 8 rounds of the case shot did not explode.

I have the honor to be, your most obedient servant,

JEREMIAH McCARTHY,

Captain, Commanding Battery.

Major TRUMBULL,

Commanding Left Center Batteries.




Capt. McCarthy used the same terminology I’ve been using, the same as used on the site about American Civil War Artillery, and the same as the above dictionary reference lists as strictly American.

Bear in mind that the lead and other stuff that went in was where the weight came from, o.k.?

My point exactly. The explosive filler is but a small percentage of the total weight. When the explosive train is removed, the solid matrix remains, with a pre-drilled hole. What's left is a sphere of a size and weight consistant with our object, with a counter bored hole and internal void into which you could pound an iron rod.


I don't know about 19th century handling of Boreman fused munitions, but modern munitions are never shipped with the fuze installed. We have no information on the source, or the state, of these munitions when acquired by our unknown worker.

The reason these points matter is that if we can determine that the item is just an ad-hock assemblage of parts, then, lacking any further context, (the well question has already been asked) it is clear that any further attempt to specify purpose is reduced to pure speculation. Door stop, conversation piece, horse tether, pendulum weight, war souvenir, abstract art, 8 yr. old kid are all equally plausible, and equally unprovable.

 

[Smithbrown]

Despite the title of this strand, these objects seem to small to me to be even (sperical) case-shot; they might be old-fashioned hand-grenades, though, re-used at a later date.

 

[Michelle]

Despite the title of this strand, these objects seem to small to me to be even (sperical) case-shot; they might be old-fashioned hand-grenades, though, re-used at a later date.

They appear from the picture with the hand in it to be too large to ever have been used effectively as hand grenades. I politely disagree on this point as well.

Doc

tired of going way back....

 

[Smithbrown]

grenades went from about 4 inches at the bottom end, up to 18 inches where they had turned into mortar shells- these appear to be in the 4- 4 1/2 inch bracket which I would have thought was well within the range for hand grenades. On the other hand I would have thought they are too small to try putting lead shot in.

You use the same technology for producing cast-iron hollow spheres whether they are used for military or technological purposes.

And definitely not bar shot.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[=Smithbrown ]

And definitely not bar shot.
*******
ET TU??

IS too a version of bar shot, perhaps no longer as it was originally made or presented..

Traitor!

Tropical Tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=diving doc

And definitely not bar shot.
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Gad how bullheaded can one Scot be - snicker it IS too a bar shot, or least it was originally!
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Could be right, border line for size of hand grenades.
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I wonder how far one could throw a #10 ball? For all practical purposes unusable for this. so back to
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Definitely not bar shot.
*********
best candidate so far by a large margin.
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Regards,
Doc
*********
Shaddup you "X" beach comber you. heheheh.

ERR Smith are YOU a beachcomber also? hehehe

Don Jose El Tropical Tramp

p.s. mi OUIJI board says it is a bar shot (originally)
Research indicates that it IS a bar shot
Common sense says it IS A BAR SHOT.
IRISH ego says it IS a bar shot,
And most important, being a bonefide SAINT, I cannot be wrong even if it is something else!

SO - IT IS A BAR SHOT!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

ZOOOO Doc, you finally admit that it IS a modified Bar Shot eh! About time!

Tropical Tramp

Example of modification. During the Guadalcanal campaign we were given containors of nuts, bolts etc. for repairs. Unfortunately, in spite of having passed an inspectors check, none had threads so were useless.

We did have wire, so we simply threaded the nuts on a wire, then made multiple turns around a 500# GP bomb for an increased shrapnel effect, it was extremely effective.

Since we did not have proximity fueses then, we made an extension of about 2' which we attached to the the nose fuse so that the bomb started the detonation train approx. 2 ' feet off of the ground.

This, combined with the layers of nuts, made a fantastic combination.

In one case a Japanese company caught in the open in a Coconut plantation was wiped out with just one of these bombs.

I defy you to find a singe picture or reference to this in any conventional ordnance manuals or data.

So it may be with this BAR SHOT!.

Tropical Tramp!

p.s. Colors still flying!

 

[Michelle]

Definately A DOOR STOP!

I just remembered that I had one in storage at my grandmothers.

She used it for the front door. Unfortunately, the least bit of breeze made the DOOR STOP roll and she was unable to keep the door open.

She got fed up and threw into the neighbours field.

Later she found out that Pirates used to throw doors at the British and the British would retaliate by shooting these bar shot looking things to blow the doors apart in mid air.

So, she had misunderstood the use and consequently thought that they were door stops for a home.

HEHEHE...this is TRUE! The British are coming...and they DID....

 

[Michelle]

Now you made my sides hurt.......LOL....Get that thing outta my way grandma...I cant see the british are coming....and they are throwing dumbells at me....LOL...I need a nap! Be ready Jeff is coming! Angelo Angelo....tssk tssk...

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[=diving doc]
I had a long talk with Jeff, we're still allowed to have fun.
Regards,
C. M. Doc
*************
--------------------5th --------------------------------------

Tropi Tramp