Lets make it simple

[Treasure_Hunter]

TH: I love your quotes, taken individually I would never disagree with any of them. However, great quotes are just that...great quotes. They do not leave room to further discussion. As previously mentioned, we all agree with you in principle. All of us would take up arms next to you if the need were to arise. Here are some points I bring up for discussion:
1. Does the constitution build in a system of checks and balances that divide us into an executive, legislative, and juicidal branch? If so, is it not the juicidal's branch sole responsibility to interpret the constitution? Why is that not good enough?
2. We have limits of all our rights already...like it or not. We do not have Freedom of speech: we cannot incite to riot, nor can we slander someone. Both of these are crimes.
3. We already have limits placed on our right to bear arms. Should we take up arms against the government because of those laws already in place?
4. Given unrestricted access to firearms if we did have to oppose a tyrannical government we would be nothing but martyrs. They would swat us like pesky gnats.

Crispin, saying what our forefathers had to say are just quotes is like me telling you that nothing Sigmund Freud said has any relevance to today...

Our forefathers writings are more than quotes a bunch of men said 236 years ago, they as revered by me and millions of other Americans as anything any man has to say today, and a lot more than 90% of what todays politicians have to say. For me and others like me they are our teachers and textbooks on freedoms, on our Constitution and our Bill of Rights...

As far as "they would swat us like flies" if that is so then why did a country that basically had nothing in military to compare defeat the Soviet Union in Afghanistan? Why did South Viet Nam lose when they had our total backing?

Why didn't Japan invade the West coast of the USA after Pearl Harbor?

”You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.”
-Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

There are approx 300 million Americans in this country and 65-70 million gun owners over half own more than one weapon, I only own 5 myself, I know people who own a lot more than that. Do you really think our military would attack 50-60 million Americans if they refused to surrender their weapons, even if 1/4 did surrender you would still have over 40 million that want?

You would not have the armed forces just attacking cilivians, you would have them attacking each other......60-70% of the military is conservative, why do you think they did not want the military's vote to count? I have no fear of our military attacking its citizens, when you join the military the oath you take swears alligence to defend the Constitution first and foremost, it is the very first line, presidents come and go, our Constitution is the framework this country is built on........

 

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[worldtalker]

Crispin, saying what our forefathers had to say are just quotes is like me telling you that nothing Sigmund Freud said has any relevance to today...

Our forefathers writings are more than quotes a bunch of men said 236 years ago, they as revered by me and millions of other Americans as anything any man has to say today, and a lot more than 90% of what todays politicians have to say. For me and others like me they are our teachers and textbooks on freedoms, on our Constitution and our Bill of Rights...

As far as "they would swat us like flies" if that is so then why did a country that basically had nothing in military to compare defeat the Soviet Union in Afghanistan? Why did South Viet Nam lose when they had our total backing?

Why didn't Japan invade the West coast of the USA after Pearl Harbor?

”You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.”
-Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

There are approx 300 million Americans in this country and 65-70 million gun owners over half own more than one weapon, I only own 5 myself, I know people who own a lot more than that. Do you really think our military would attack 50-60 million Americans if they refused to surrender their weapons, even if 1/4 did surrender you would still have over 40 million that want?

You would not have the armed forces just attacking cilivians, you would have them attacking each other......60-70% of the military is conservative, why do you think they did not want the military's vote to count? I have no fear of our military attacking its citizens, when you join the military the oath you take swears alligence to defend the Constitution first and foremost, it is the very first line, presidents come and go, our Constitution is the framework this country is built on........

GodBless you and your Family,Be Safe Chris

 

[bigscoop]

Watched more closely by whom if I may ask.

Only if you'll answer my earlier question to you, that you avoided. Who, "exactly", were you referring to when you said, "HIS" grace? If you are going to enter debates and then reference sources, be prepared to answer detailed questions about those sources, just as you have asked me to do. Otherwise, probably best not to reference the sources or question the sources of others.

 

[worldtalker]

Only if you'll answer my earlier question to you, that you avoided. Who, "exactly", were you referring to when you said, "HIS" grace? If you are going to enter debates and then reference sources, be prepared to answer detailed questions about those sources, just as you have asked me to do. Otherwise, probably best not to reference the sources or question the sources of others.

This has NOT been a religious/political post,nor will I make it one,you are a "smart" one,go figure!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Alright, now we rolling.

TH: I think the courts will call him on it in time. Our system is rock slow but we don't want knee-jerk legislation as Ammon pointed out in a previous thread. It is important that we review things in time. Give the system time to work. Again, I have just as much horse as anybody else in the courts interpretation of the law. I am actively involved in compromising with the government on health care issues; after all, I am the expert. Do you want me compromising with the government on gun legislation? What do I know about guns...not a whole lot. Please answer this question my friend: Is it better to work with the government or alienate and isolate yourself from them? If compromise fails we can always take up arms as a last resort. I know I am toting the politics line here but I think these examples are fair comparisons to current discussion.

Since you asked I will answer, I do not believe in the healthcare law passed, ObamaCare violates the Tenth Amendment in many fundamental ways. 99.9% of the time once you lose a freedom it is gone forever.....It is far easier to hold on to a freedom, than to lose it and get it back...

No where have I said I am taking up arms against the government, everything I have said is hypothetical, as far as "alienate and isolate" that is what Washington has been doing to the citizens the last 4 years and will continue to do the next 4.

I'm 64, never in my lifetime have I seen as many good people mad, frustrated, and completely fed up as I see right now, and remember I grew up and experienced Viet Nam, I remember the marches, the protests, the bombings, I remember Watergate, I knew full well the height of the Cold War and what was going on at that time as I was part of it......

My health insurance just went up $120 a month not counting the deductable increases and my taxes just went up over $100 a month and that is just the start of it......It isn't just me, there are 40-50 million adults in this country that are fed up....

 

[worldtalker]

Let the People count,not just for cannon fodder,educate the young the way "public school" fails to do,a shovel by candle lite will work for me,although I may squint!

 

[bigscoop]

TH,

I live in a gated Florida community, 55 and older, 600 homes, the signs in the yards were 50 - 50, so I don't buy that the vast majority of adults were opposed to his re-election, not even in this strong republican state. Obviously they were not. Bush was just as guilty of similar actions, as has been most every other past and current president, even those who participated in the very drafting of the documents you cherish. These men, all of them, were very well versed in the law, do you really think they avoided tightening the language of these legal documents by accident? Jefferson even warned of it, and then defied these very constraints himself later on. These are historical facts, and yet as a society we seem to be selective in our choosing which to persecute. Again, when they are done to our favor we look the other way, and when they are not we start pointing fingers. The issue you address isn't a new issue, it has been there since day one. Unfortunately, the only way to fix it is through amendment, which many refuse to even consider, which is what serves the condition to continue to survive. You cannot fix what is flawed or broken if nobody is willing to work on it.

 

[releventchair]

Is wearing seat belts in cars/trucks, a BAD thing?

Generally good.
Pop them off when you reach six feet of depth. Some college students near here have belts made from seat belts. i don,t ask why.
Should certain size/style belts be found i have a buyer.

 

[Chadeaux]

Are you referencing religion again? Who, exactly, is "His" in the above quote?

Such silliness.

 

[Chadeaux]

There we were having a good discussion and it had to get all mucked up with nonsense again. Folks, if we are going to discuss the 2nd amendment then we have to stick to the topic. If you run out of intelligent things to say, that's cool, you don't have to say anything.

Chadeaux: Good post, interesting thoughts. I am glad to you have you on our side. There is definitely a difference between a republic and a constitutional government. I chose the words constitutional government because that was what TH was referring to. To talk about republics is a whole different ball of wax. Republics consist of one party systems and are covers for regimes...ie.. The people's Republic of China and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. We stopped being a republic when we evolved into a two-party system.

TH: I love your quotes, taken individually I would never disagree with any of them. However, great quotes are just that...great quotes. They do not leave room to further discussion. As previously mentioned, we all agree with you in principle. All of us would take up arms next to you if the need were to arise. Here are some points I bring up for discussion:
1. Does the constitution build in a system of checks and balances that divide us into an executive, legislative, and juicidal branch? If so, is it not the juicidal's branch sole responsibility to interpret the constitution? Why is that not good enough?
2. We have limits of all our rights already...like it or not. We do not have Freedom of speech: we cannot incite to riot, nor can we slander someone. Both of these are crimes.
3. We already have limits placed on our right to bear arms. Should we take up arms against the government because of those laws already in place?
4. Given unrestricted access to firearms if we did have to oppose a tyrannical government we would be nothing but martyrs. They would swat us like pesky gnats.

WorldTalker: Booga-booga boo, wouldy-cudgey rueprowlsky.

DieselRam: Et nomine patri, et fili, spiritcus sancti.

I have worked with special needs children who couldn't wipe their noses. Children who could do nothing but cry in pain. Why? The government said they HAD to go to school.

I do believe they had better reasoning skills than you Crispin.

You and yours have my sympathies.

Life is tough, it's tougher when . . .

 

[Chadeaux]

Only if you'll answer my earlier question to you, that you avoided. Who, "exactly", were you referring to when you said, "HIS" grace? If you are going to enter debates and then reference sources, be prepared to answer detailed questions about those sources, just as you have asked me to do. Otherwise, probably best not to reference the sources or question the sources of others.

Stop trying to steer this thread into politics and religion. Spoiled child is what you are, now go cry in the corner until you grow up.

 

[Dano Sverige]

This has NOT been a religious/political post,nor will I make it one,you are a "smart" one,go figure!

Seriously, you're joking right Lol, i've not seen this much politics and religion since both those forums were closed and the fun stopped! reopen them i say.

...And Chadeaux - stop being such a cry baby and trying to blame people for things that other posters have VERY clearly done! You're how old??

 

[Dano Sverige]

Crispin, saying what our forefathers had to say are just quotes is like me telling you that nothing Sigmund Freud said has any relevance to today...

Our forefathers writings are more than quotes a bunch of men said 236 years ago, they as revered by me and millions of other Americans as anything any man has to say today, and a lot more than 90% of what todays politicians have to say. For me and others like me they are our teachers and textbooks on freedoms, on our Constitution and our Bill of Rights..

I wonder if those "wise men" from long long ago would be as wise with 50 states and 300million citizens armed to the teeth?

As far as "they would swat us like flies" if that is so then why did a country that basically had nothing in military to compare defeat the Soviet Union in Afghanistan? Why did South Viet Nam lose when they had our total backing?

Russia? Terrain and politics. South Vietnam? Terrain and American politics.

Why didn't Japan invade the West coast of the USA after Pearl Harbor?

Conquest wasn't the objective, keeping your navy out of their true objective zones...was.

”You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.”
-Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

There was a rifle behind every blade of grass at the little bighorn....it didn't help!

There are approx 300 million Americans in this country and 65-70 million gun owners over half own more than one weapon, I only own 5 myself, I know people who own a lot more than that. Do you really think our military would attack 50-60 million Americans if they refused to surrender their weapons, even if 1/4 did surrender you would still have over 40 million that want?

You would not have the armed forces just attacking cilivians, you would have them attacking each other......60-70% of the military is conservative, why do you think they did not want the military's vote to count? I have no fear of our military attacking its citizens, when you join the military the oath you take swears alligence to defend the Constitution first and foremost, it is the very first line, presidents come and go, our Constitution is the framework this country is built on........

You seem to be under the illusion that Govt forces would march up to your 70 million like the redcoats at Yorktown. Apart from the fact you'd never get that many people in one place at one time, (let alone control them) you'd be getting the "3am knock on the door" as it used to be called, and your 70 million mates wouldn't know anything about it until you phoned them to whine or it was their turn for "the knock".

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Seriously, you're joking right Lol, i've not seen this much politics and religion since both those forums were closed and the fun stopped! reopen them i say.

Dano, you have no say in how this forum is ran.... We are allowing posts on the 2nd Amendment at the moment not other politics, if it is political and isn't related to 2nd it will most likely be pulled....


Once again you seem to be under the illusion that you have a dog in this fight which you certainly do not.....We don't care what you or any British think about it at all, once again like the typical British you under estimate Americans....The only time British are spot on is when they need Americans to pull your butt out of the fire.....

 

[Dano Sverige]

It's called "constructive criticism" from a neutrals point of view. I know you Americans arn't big on criticism (or facts) from outsiders but apparently it doesn't state in the ToS that "No comments will be posted on American based subjects from anyone who is NOT a God fearing American, Dagnabbitt!!"...or am i wrong?

(Actually it's called "a tongue in cheek response" but, ya know...)

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Watch the language.

I did not say you can't post here, As an American I said you have no dog in this fight which you don't...It is like us saying how stupid it is to have a king and queen, a royal family that does nothing at all and gets paid millions, but that is what the British want and it is really none of our business.

We decided 230 some odd years ago we wanted nothing to do with kings, queens, princes, dukes or earls or any of the rest of the common British blowhards so we threw them out of our country, but hey you guys like bowing down to them so it is your business......We bow down to no man.....

 

[spartacus53]

People better start waking up and act accordingly {together} ! Pretty good for a wise ass!

Darn tootin, it's actually more than pretty good.

This was my exact point on several posts. I'm tired of peoplelook what they're doing to us and idly stand by with nothing else to contribute. Oh, I take that back No, they would rather split hairs, , or if someones opinion differs from theirs.

In all the posts combined there is not one, one I mind you possible solution to their problem, until my post, that wasn't read, or funnier yet, not understood I'll stand behind what I said before again, without thinking of a solution they're also a part of the problem. I see that as a large problem too, because I don't want to see them armed, if they are unable to think. That is way too dangerous

Yes, let them come back and say they have the answer, but they won't share Google it

So, sit back, talk your Constitution, and Bill of Right's until you're blue in the face. It'll get you nowhere

 

[Rebel - KGC]

YEP! USC has MORE than 10 Amendments; we ARE an INCLUSIVE Society...

 

[Dano Sverige]

Watch the language.

I did not say you can't post here, As an American I said you have no dog in this fight which you don't...It is like us saying how stupid it is to have a king and queen, a royal family that does nothing at all and gets paid millions, but that is what the British want and it is really none of our business.

We decided 230 some odd years ago we wanted nothing to do with kings, queens, princes, dukes or earls or any of the rest of the common British blowhards so we threw them out of our country, but hey you guys like bowing down to them so it is your business......We bow down to no man.....

You'd be surprised lol. Stand outside the gates of Buckingham Palace for a day, you'd swear you were stood on Broadway with the amount of American accents you'd hear! Apparently they bring in millions in tourism each year so they get paid a decent amount for doing that.
They could all go "bang" tomorrow for me, and the only ones who bow to her are those who go for tea and medals!

 

[bigscoop]

....this thread has been a real trip. A special thanks to those who have made it so enjoyable, educational, and entertaining.

Chadeaux, and to show no hard feelings, this most definitely includes you.