Lima 2 escudo and 1 escudo authentic or reproduction

[TheDuderino]

I found these for sale in a jewelry store. They are mislabeled as being Atocha coins, they are not because the dates on them are 1705 and 1712 and the Atocha wreck was in 1622. One of them is a lima 1 escudo, but features the castle and lion front with the pillar and wave style back instead of the usual style for a lima 1.
The other coin is a lima 2 escudo. Both look to have exceptional striking, not quite perfect , but very close to center.

I have not seen any other authentic or reproduction that look exactly like these, so i need some other hopefully educated opinions on these. I would like to have them but i am not sure about them.

Unfortunately I do not have proper size and wight measurements, as they are set in a pennant. I also cannot see the edge to tell if there is any kind of seam.

Any help appreciated.

 

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[TheDuderino]

Front of the Lima 1.

 

[TheDuderino]

View attachment 1714897 View attachment 1714898

 

[RTR]

Lots of 'Reproductions' on these coins over the years.If you have them carefully remove them from their pennants.Weigh & measure them .Or send them off for authentication . This one IS a reproduction,made from silver removed from the Atocha by the fisher team.....Best of luck,hope they Are real

 

[xcopperstax]

I will first say that I am definitely not an expert on ID'ing repro's vs authentic. I feel like the price being marked down that much would be one indicator of being a repro. Next with no certificate of authenticity... it certainly doesn't prove anything either way but it doesn't help make a case for them being authentic. If you zoom in on the surface it looks a little grainy in spots. To me that makes me think it could be a sand casting which is not how they were made... The authentic coins were struck with dies. Being marked as the wrong shipwreck could be a move to confuse a buyer into buying them, or it could be that the seller just has no idea what they are selling. From all the threads I have read I gather there are people who have gone to great lengths to make bogus authenticity papers to sell repro coins as authentic. It can be real tricky not getting duped. I would think about what I have said and see if there is anybody on here who can definitively say what these are.

 

[TheDuderino]

 

[Jason in Enid]

I am no expert, but I have spent a lot of time staring at shipwreck coins while drooling and dreaming. As I look at your pics, the coins just have that "off" feeling. You say the embossing is fairly strong, but the lions and castles look horrible. Even worse than the "authentic repro" in the other pic. I would have walked away. Too many red flags about these.

As I search the google-verse, the ONLY coins I find like your are listed at repros. Every coin (both legit and fake) has the lions REVERSED from your pictures. Same location, but the lion is physically facing the opposite direction.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

View attachment 1714896

Front of the Lima 1.

My eyes are bad but I can see thats a fake from a mile away! They are among the worst lions and castles I have ever seen, especially the ;lions. If you have any doubt, I believe we have a shipwreck and a Spanish cob forum.

 

[TheDuderino]

I am no expert, but I have spent a lot of time staring at shipwreck coins while drooling and dreaming. As I look at your pics, the coins just have that "off" feeling. You say the embossing is fairly strong, but the lions and castles look horrible. Even worse than the "authentic repro" in the other pic. I would have walked away. Too many red flags about these.

As I search the google-verse, the ONLY coins I find like your are listed at repros. Every coin (both legit and fake) has the lions REVERSED from your pictures. Same location, but the lion is physically facing the opposite direction.

The coin is upside down in the pic. These lions are facing left just like they are on ever other coin. The centering if the “strike” is near perfect, not the embossing. I believe the problem withe the look of the lions and castles is the small size of the coin itself. It is about the size of a dime as it is a small denomination of 1 escudo. 1 escudos do not typically have the lion and castle design. I will post a pic of a normal 1 escudo. Something else i wanted help with is identifying the coin because i have never seen a 1 escudo of this design, real or fake. I would like to know if anyone has seen or heard of this coin design.

 

[TheDuderino]

The coin is upside down in the pic. These lions are facing left just like they are on ever other coin. The centering if the “strike” is near perfect, not the embossing. I believe the problem withe the look of the lions and castles is the small size of the coin itself. It is about the size of a dime as it is a small denomination of 1 escudo. 1 escudos do not typically have the lion and castle design. I will post a pic of a normal 1 escudo. Something else i wanted help with is identifying the coin because i have never seen a 1 escudo of this design, real or fake. I would like to know if anyone has seen or heard of this coin design.

This is the usual style of a lima 1 escudo.

 

[TheDuderino]

My lima 1 escudo

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Did you test to see if its 24 carat or near to it?

I hope Im wrong. Im sure the Spanish Cob Forum could help you.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

https://www.sedwickcoins.com/articles/limagoldcobs.htm


I think I get what you are saying. You think that it maybe could be something rare and the lions look funky because they are small and we have nothing to compare it with on the 1 escudo. Sedwicks are the experts but the Spanish Cob forum here should have very knowledgeable people that could help. I think I have been out of Spanish coins for too long. Good luck.


http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/spanish-cobs/

 

[TheDuderino]

Thanks for the link

 

[Mackaydon]

Don't buy a 'pig in a poke'.
Don......

 

[TheDuderino]

Don't buy a 'pig in a poke'.
Don......

I am unfamiliar with the term “ pig and poke”
Explain please.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

What metal is that bezel/pennant mount made from?

buy a pig in a poke mean that something is sold or bought without the buyer knowing its true nature or value, especially when buying without inspecting the item beforehand.

 

[ARC]

Copies.

Red flag after red flag.

Even the metals look "off".

I would pass.

 

[ARC]

After closer inspection... and IMO...

These are plated replicas... made in 80's... perhaps even slightly earlier.

The weight would be definitive.... for they would weigh half of the real deal.

ALSO...

The first "red flag" to me is the fact that a gold coin is set in what appears to be silver.

This NEVER is done on a real deal.

 

[ARC]

Welp... I think I am correct in my opinion... just found one of your coins.

The Lima 2 1705... IS listed as a known fake... and your other is exact to it... so IMO they are definitely fakes.