Lost Mines in Mexico - An Important Discovery by H.O. Flipper August 21, 1889

[Real of Tayopa]

Mai, strange as it may seem " F Dobie, "Apache gold an Yaqui Silver"

 

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Diving for Pleasure and Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[Real of Tayopa]

Mal, one of the unholy trio, nickname of Crow. You can see the SA motif where they had many an adventure.

 

[Real of Tayopa]

To better appreciate the work -------

 

[South Sea mariner]

Mal, one of the unholy trio, nickname of Crow. You can see the SA motif where they had many an adventure.

Hmm a man of many talents and according to those lovely island girls wandering hands.

Mal

 

[doc-d]

The old black bird has been gone a long time.......any updates on his recent flights? and what of his child bride and little crow?

 

[South Sea mariner]

The old black bird has been gone a long time.......any updates on his recent flights? and what of his child bride and little crow?

Who is the black bird? Another alias?

You guys are just too slick for this sea captain.

Mal

 

[Oroblanco]

Old Bookaroo, funny you would mention the Arch; here is a shot of our pard Loke standing under it:


and one of him working inside the mine:


Of course there are many other interesting lost treasures and mines too, have had a special fondness for this one myself.

Please do continue, and ditto to hoping the dark bird Crow will be rejoining the crew here soon!

 

[Interested Party in UK]

SSM: There are four general categories of treasure hunting literature:

I. Fact: Perhaps this is the rarest. There are excellent "how-to" handbooks and manuals, works of history that are factually correct, biographies and autobiographies, etc.

II. Folklore: Prof. J. Frank Dobie is the obvious example here. Often founded in fact, these yarns and legends will generally have a good deal of barren rock mixed in with the valuable ore.

III. Fantasy: These are the stories written by those who claim to be successful treasure finders - but the writers fail to produce any real evidence to back up the claims. F.L. Coffman, Lieut. Harry E. Rieseberg, Frank Fish (including that name won't make me any more popular here!), Jennings in the book by Robin Moore, the much more recent W.C. Jameson is their direct literary heir, and far too many more to count. In many respects these are the least worthwhile contributions to the literature because serious people may well mistake them for fact.

IV. Fiction: Novels and short stories can be very instructive. There's a great deal to learned, for example, from the classic Treasure Island. Recently here on TN a thread was started asking for the desirable traits in a treasure hunting crew. Being lucky wasn't mentioned - but generals from Napoleon to Blackjack Haskins have valued that trait above all others. Many of the posts reflected the hard won knowledge found in The Treasure of the Sierra Madre (and as good as the movie is, the book is still better). A recent personal favorite is the first-rate Plunder of the Sun.

Where does an author such as Harold T. Wilkins and his many accounts of pirate treasure maps belong? Keep him out of "Fact" and he'd fit into either Fiction or Fantasy.

Now - to determine in which category any book or article belongs? That's the art, now isn't it...?

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

Hello OB,

Good to see you posting again.

Erudite and generous with you research as always.

Could I kindly ask you about Jennings in Robin Moore's book which they co-authored?

I tried to contact Jennings' ex-wife (an English lady who also wrote her own book about their time together) as there was some points I had hoped to clarify with her, but she was unfortunately unwell.

Would it be possible if you could share any details about whether you evidenced that Moore and Jennings had made-up the events they shared in the book. I have known of other folk who visited some of the places mentioned in the book and, apparently, Jennings was still remembered.

I am not saying that I am trying to question you point - simply trying to separate the fact from the fiction in the book. Obviously many points and outcomes were exaggerated by both to paint themselves in the best possible light.

Look forward to hearing from you.


IPUK

 

[doc-d]

The old black bird is also known as Crow.......part of the famous and often mentioned trio.

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Mal,one of the haka dance group

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Howdy! Thank you for your kind words!

Some five years ago there was a lengthy conversation about The Treasure Hunter here on TN. You can read it all under the "Recommended Reading" heading. Far too many people live in a post-factual world where reality is what they perceive - not what is objectively observable and repeatable. Their views, opinions, and beliefs are not fact-based - so facts don't change their minds.

I've copied a few of my comments. Nothing I've read here on TN (or anywhere else, for that matter), has shown me that I am in error. To do so would require ignoring a good part of the book itself. Which I'm prepared to do if the facts warrant it - but, so far, they haven't.

As a side note - in one of my early comments I took a free swing at Stan Grist - another poser, in my personal opinion, who has a very liberal interpretation of the Fair Use provision of modern copyright law. He didn't like it. Again, he was unable to provide any convincing evidence to the contrary (let alone proof). He elected to ignore what I pointed out. I only bring this up because the mention of his name below might otherwise be a bit confusing.

*****

I said grave robbing was wrong. Period. Mr. Grist spoke up for Howard Jennings as a wonderful guy. I quoted the book to show Howard Jennings was a self-confessed liar and a thief. You said I libeled him. I asked you to point it out and you didn't. Now you say I should apologize for quoting the book?

I said I don't believe the story of the beautiful young woman falling under Mr. Jennings' spell and leaving her work on a day's notice to traipse off on a dangerous treasure hunting expedition. Guess Mr. Jennings didn't get around to writing about her dark eyes flashing in the light of the candle stub thrust into an empty rum bottle, sitting on a packing crate in the rustic camp...eyes that were pools of mystery, hiding the secrets of four hundred years...her proud bosom thrusting against the taunt fabric of her khaki jungle shirt...

He did manage to pack most of the rest into his tale, however.

*******


At the risk of being a buzzkill I think The Treasure Hunter is a miserable book. Most of it is BS - and the whole concept of looting graves and tombs for gold trinkets does our profession (or hobby, depending) a tremendous amount of harm.

People like Stan Grist push this sort of "literature" - how he has managed to obtain copyrights for the publications he peddles I don't know, but it must have been a tremendous amount of work for a relatively small return - but it won't do the rest of us any good at all.

Robin Moore co-wrote The Happy Hooker and as far as I am concerned The Treasure Hunter falls into the same category.

*******

Re: The Treasure Hunter


There may be some folks who read this Topic and have not yet seen a copy of the book in question.

The address of Mr. Grist's website has already been posted. Read Chapter 4 for yourself. Howard Jennings takes off into the jungle with a beautiful young woman who apparently has fallen in love with him at first sight - or, at the very least, fallen for his charm and tales of treasure hunting. In such a conservative country she leaves a good job at the local bank (a conservative institution - and a position a young lady of that day would be most fortunate to have secured) on one day's notice to join a complete stranger on a dangerous expedition to bandit-infested (sorry - it's always "bandito" in this sort of book) territory. Not to mention the head-hunting Spanish-speaking Indians...

Mr. Jennings happily describes simply heading into the bush and plundering the first graves and tombs he can find. Permits? Permission? He doesn't need any stinking permits or permission. His local friend - quite properly - objects to this behavior. Perhaps when he was suaving her he failed to mention that he was a grave robber. However, I suggest you read it for yourself. And pay particular attention, if you will, to where Mr. Jennings writes:

I saw I wasn't going to win this argument, so clearly it was time to quit. "Look, Anita," I said, "would it make you feel better if I worked with your government?"

She smiled and nodded. "Okay," I said. "If I find anything, I'll take it to your government and let them decide what I can keep. They can pay me for whatever they want."

That seemed to pacify her. I knew I couldn't do any such thing, but I would have to continue her education another time. [emphasis added]

What a wonderful fellow, indeed! He does manage to loot some graves - but then he must get his plunder out of the country. Mr. Jennings writes:

I was now faced with the inevitable problem of how to smuggle Ecuadorian gold artifacts out of antiquities-conscious Colombia.

Call me old-fashioned - this isn't treasure hunting in my book. People go to jail for this - and it is my opinion that they should. Treasure hunting is tough enough without this sort of activity. There is a difference between being a ghoul and being a treasue hunter.

Finally, on a minor historical note, in the same chapter Mr. Jennings includes:

In 1848 the old sourdough panners discovered gold at Sutter’s Mill, California,...

I'm tempted to suggest panning sourdough would produce a soggy mess. I'm sure, however, he's trying to sling the lingo and sound like an old hand. Unfortunately, there weren't any "old sourdough panners" or gold panners or gold prospectors in California in '48. Gold was discovered by accident by James Marshall at Sutter's Mill. Until that amazing event, there weren't any old or young people looking for it. Sourdough, by the way, was a gift from Basque sheepherders who came to California somewhat later.

Is this a major error? No. But it certainly is an insight to the author's experience.

Again - let the book by Mr. Jennings and Mr. Moore speak (or, perhaps I should say, read) for itself.

*******

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Thanks Bookie - I get your point...

Moore was also criticised for his book about Bin Laden after the events of 9/11 as being unfounded and passed as "the truth". He acknowledged making mistakes to be fair and died a few years afterwards.

Apart from Moore and Jennings who claimed they found treasure on Roatan Island (this was allegedly discussed by Jennings' ex-wife), have you ever come across any reference(s) to a supposed pirate hoard recovered by an American/s in the 1960s or 1970s? They were on a ship/yacht and found an underground cave apparently. I also know that Mitchell-Hedges claimed to have found three chests and that there was a fourth which he could not recover for various reasons (Jennings referred to this as well in his book), but I believe this has been debunked as Mitchell-Hedges and his daughter were very economical with the truth down the years. A pain in the backside for those who wish to get evidence and consider only facts, however, if it means having to do that little extra research and delving to begin with to save later frustration and disappointment, then so be it.


IPUK

 

[Old Bookaroo]

You are, of course, quite welcome.

There are various stories about pirate treasure on Roatan but I don't have any specific information about any of them.

In the original thread I did mention Mr. Moore's book on Osama Been Forgotten. Sixty Minutes (CBS) had a similar problem with one of its stories on the Benghazi firefight.

I hope I made it clear that my large issue with The Treasure Hunter is the grave robbing - the glamorization of theft as "treasure hunting." I don't see the occupation of huaquero as being an attractive proposition. It's wrong on so many levels.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

OroB:

Dulce!

Did you stay at the "Lost Arch Inn?"

https://books.google.com/books?id=H...QgjMAI#v=onepage&q=the lost arch mine&f=false

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Oroblanco]

OroB:

Dulce!

Did you stay at the "Lost Arch Inn?"

https://books.google.com/books?id=H...QgjMAI#v=onepage&q=the lost arch mine&f=false

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

No but that is pretty funny!

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Oro, you posted ---have had a special fondness for this one myself. You should, ya found it, and own it

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Ole buckaroo, how come no beautiful gals ever fell in love with me instantly?? Do suppose it was after a couple of weeks on the trail with my cute mule, with no baths, sleeping with her sweat soaked saddle blankets had anything to do with it ?

 

[doc-d]

Don Jose.......the coffee (with supplement) overcomes any and all personal hygiene issues.....

 

[Old Bookaroo]

OroB: That book looks very interesting - although it is a bit out of date (10 years old). I was astonished when I priced copies - there are a number available but they all start at $50! It must be a good one.

Personally, I don't understand the value proposition of a couple of dozen people offering what amounts to the same thing at the same price - you'd think somebody would lower their price and actually close a sale...

Perhaps my error was using "think."

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Oroblanco]

OroB: That book looks very interesting - although it is a bit out of date (10 years old). I was astonished when I priced copies - there are a number available but they all start at $50! It must be a good one.

Personally, I don't understand the value proposition of a couple of dozen people offering what amounts to the same thing at the same price - you'd think somebody would lower their price and actually close a sale...

Perhaps my error was using "think."

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

Agreed, it does look to be a good book, and also agree that it is a bit pricey for my taste. I am adding it to my book-buying list (which is already as long as our local telephone book) but will have to see if I can borrow a copy via the library before our next visit to S CA. Thanks for bringing it to my attention,