LRL Finally Resolved - TFIC

[Kentucky Kache]

My mistake...it was to the wizard.

This?

What draws my ire is the activity of liars and confidence men in this or any arena, who separate honest but naive people from their hard earned money.

Then there are the ones who sell this nonsense to military people, in harm's way, with claims of finding explosives/bombs etc.

[Wow, go out of town for a day and your thread goes screaming off into the wilderness! ]

It is one thing when someone gets ripped off on their way to go treasure hunting, quite another when little sister's college fund goes out the window because she and the rest of the family would sacrifice everything on the slimmest possibility of helping to keep big brother alive.

I can see the opening pitch now, sleazy guy from across the way shows up at the front door, hat in hand, and says, "I understand your boy is over in the desert, and I want to help out if I can. I need you to meet my buddy, Charlie Dough, he has something you should see. It could keep your boy and his friends alive over there."

Wouldn't you love to get someone like that in front of a judge to explain his "technology"? Preferably someone with the patience, and bleeding heart sympathy for con artists of, say, Judge Judy? (If only she was still on a real bench!)

If you feel that strongly, why aren't you out there doing what you're chatting about in here? Are you willing to act on your words, or are you just spurting to be heard? Put up or shut up.

You watched Judge Judy? No wonder you're confused.

The only think I see bad about that is that rwizard produced no proof of his claim.

rwizard, can you show where such a meeting and conversation took place? I'm referring to this:

I can see the opening pitch now, sleazy guy from across the way shows up at the front door, hat in hand, and says, "I understand your boy is over in the desert, and I want to help out if I can. I need you to meet my buddy, Charlie Dough, he has something you should see. It could keep your boy and his friends alive over there."

 

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[EE THr]

The only think I see bad about that is that rwizard produced no proof of his claim.

Well, I highlighted your insult, by putting in bold red letters. How could you possibly have missed it?



P.S. Wizard's statement was clearly a hypothetical example, which doesn't call for any "proof."

 

[Kentucky Kache]

The only think I see bad about that is that rwizard produced no proof of his claim.

Well, I highlighted your insult, by putting in bold red letters. How could you possibly have missed it?



P.S. Wizard's statement was clearly a hypothetical example, which doesn't call for any "proof."

I saw the highlight, so I know what you were referring to.

Yes, it was a hypothetical example, but as such, should be representing something that fits the situation. Which posters on this site sell such things as described? I think a better word for it would be drama.

 

[EE THr]

Yes, it was a hypothetical example, but as such, should be representing something that fits the situation. Which posters on this site sell such things as described? I think a better word for it would be drama.

I took it as referring to the H3TEC, which was claimed to have beed sold to the military as a personnel detection device; plus a few others which actually were sold to various military, and were supposed to be explosives detection devices (and were then proved not to be able to detect anything at all). All of them have been discussed on this forum, at one time or another.

The concept itself, is dramatic. So speaking about it would naturally reflect that. So what's the big deal?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey KK...there is no need to talk to these people..the only thing that they believe is what drips out of their mouths..
It is a common psychological problem in that insecure people tend to project their personal deficiencies unto another in self defense, they are sure trying to pass theirs lack of knowledge over to you

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Yes, it was a hypothetical example, but as such, should be representing something that fits the situation. Which posters on this site sell such things as described? I think a better word for it would be drama.

I took it as referring to the H3TEC, which was claimed to have beed sold to the military as a personnel detection device; plus a few others which actually were sold to various military, and were supposed to be explosives detection devices (and were then proved not to be able to detect anything at all). All of them have been discussed on this forum, at one time or another.

The concept itself, is dramatic. So speaking about it would naturally reflect that. So what's the big deal?

The big deal is, who are the posters on this forum who sold them as such? My earlier point stands:

If you feel that strongly, why aren't you out there doing what you're chatting about in here? Are you willing to act on your words, or are you just spurting to be heard? Put up or shut up.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Yes, it was a hypothetical example, but as such, should be representing something that fits the situation. Which posters on this site sell such things as described? I think a better word for it would be drama.

I took it as referring to the H3TEC, which was claimed to have beed sold to the military as a personnel detection device; plus a few others which actually were sold to various military, and were supposed to be explosives detection devices (and were then proved not to be able to detect anything at all). All of them have been discussed on this forum, at one time or another.

The concept itself, is dramatic. So speaking about it would naturally reflect that. So what's the big deal?

I have to keep telling myself to sit on my fingers.

However, yes... the H3 Tec was claimed to have been sold/used by the US Military, but falsely so.

The ADE 651 and similar devices were sold to the Pakistan's, Iraqis, Mexicans and others. They were eventually deemed as fraudulent devices.

Drama? You bet. Hundreds of lives were lost. Those attempting to color these devices in a colorful light will have a God awful time washing the blood of their hands.

No doubt, but which posters on here did that? Also, I guess you just put an end to the accusation against H3Tech having sold to the military. Which one of you guys are we to believe?

 

[Kentucky Kache]

I took it as referring to the H3TEC, which was claimed to have beed sold to the military as a personnel detection device; ...

SWR, if you read my post I say, which one of you guys should we believe? Wizard? EE? SWR?

So now you're claiming that I sold these things to the military? You're getting worse, boy.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

I took it as referring to the H3TEC, which was claimed to have beed sold to the military as a personnel detection device; ...

SWR, if you read my post I say, which one of you guys should we believe? Wizard? EE? SWR?

So now you're claiming that I sold these things to the military? You're getting worse, boy.

Nope. I did not claim that. You are lying... again.

Any of that blood come off your hands yet? Your prophet will be so proud of you for defying the anti-Fraudsters.

Now a greater blood is on YOUR hands.

 

[rockhound]

EE, I guess I deserve that. I have gone in an entirely new direction since last month.I no longer need to balance the flux capacitor. I have found the balance I was looking for.The only thing that bothers me is,why do you guys still ask for proof? You say they can't work and won't work,so why ask for proof that they do?Who are you trying to convince,those that use them,or yourselves. Proof and truth is a double edged sword.You can positively believe something to be truth today and next week doubt can begin to creep in and destroy your burden of proof or truth and cause you to need your proof or truth reinforced to convince you that what you originally knew as truth or proof,is in fact true. I have been down this road many times and even gone back and redone experiments to convince myself that what I did or saw was real.Sometimes reality to me is a different reality to someone else.I thought about not posting in this thread,but reconsidered,only because there is not enough knowledge out there concerning these things. If you all would like to start a dialogue of questions,specific to LRL's,I would be willing to do that. I would ask a question and when you answered it,then you could ask me one.If at any time,you answered incorrectly,the dialogue would end.Once all questions were answered,you would know all there is to know about LRL's.Some questions you might ask,could be answered with a question of my own.This would have to be a truthful and earnest dialogue only specifically pertaining to LRL functions,use and interruptions from other sources. At the end,if we make it that far,you will be able to take or build any LRL and find anything you want with it.This is not just open to EE,but to any who wish to participate.If you want to know all,this is your chance.Good Luck.rockhound

 

[EE THr]

KK---

The big deal is, who are the posters on this forum who sold them as such?

Where did anyone post that someone was selling LRLs on here?

He just referred to "people who sell...." Do you not believe that LRL makers sell their stuff?



P.S. I also erred when I said that the H3TEC was supposed to be a personnel locator. That was an Electroscope model which was advertised to detect people, by their heart beats. You can see it on another thread, titled "Known Facts About LRLs...."

 

[EE THr]

Hey KK...there is no need to talk to these people..the only thing that they believe is what drips out of their mouths..

It is a common psychological problem in that insecure people tend to project their personal deficiencies unto another in self defense, they are sure trying to pass theirs lack of knowledge over to you

And then there is Art, who thinks he is an amateur sick-ologist, and tries to substitute his nonsense diagnoses for actual proven facts about any issue. His motto is "When in trouble, try to change the subject."

 

[EE THr]

No doubt, but which posters on here did that? Also, I guess you just put an end to the accusation against H3Tech having sold to the military. Which one of you guys are we to believe?

That's the same thing that I said. H3TEC claimed that they sold their device to the military. (However, there is no record of that ever happening.)

 

[EE THr]

I took it as referring to the H3TEC, which was claimed to have beed sold to the military as a personnel detection device; ...

SWR, if you read my post I say, which one of you guys should we believe? Wizard? EE? SWR?

So now you're claiming that I sold these things to the military? You're getting worse, boy.

Anyone who promotes fake devices to be sold to the military, is as guilty as those who sold them.

 

[EE THr]

EE, I guess I deserve that. I have gone in an entirely new direction since last month.I no longer need to balance the flux capacitor. I have found the balance I was looking for.The only thing that bothers me is,why do you guys still ask for proof? You say they can't work and won't work,so why ask for proof that they do?Who are you trying to convince,those that use them,or yourselves. Proof and truth is a double edged sword.You can positively believe something to be truth today and next week doubt can begin to creep in and destroy your burden of proof or truth and cause you to need your proof or truth reinforced to convince you that what you originally knew as truth or proof,is in fact true. I have been down this road many times and even gone back and redone experiments to convince myself that what I did or saw was real.Sometimes reality to me is a different reality to someone else.I thought about not posting in this thread,but reconsidered,only because there is not enough knowledge out there concerning these things. If you all would like to start a dialogue of questions,specific to LRL's,I would be willing to do that. I would ask a question and when you answered it,then you could ask me one.If at any time,you answered incorrectly,the dialogue would end.Once all questions were answered,you would know all there is to know about LRL's.Some questions you might ask,could be answered with a question of my own.This would have to be a truthful and earnest dialogue only specifically pertaining to LRL functions,use and interruptions from other sources. At the end,if we make it that far,you will be able to take or build any LRL and find anything you want with it.This is not just open to EE,but to any who wish to participate.If you want to know all,this is your chance.Good Luck.rockhound

Why do we ask for proof?

First of all, why does anyone ask for proof?---Because, in the Real World, it is always required. Ever try to cash a check without showing your ID? To normal people, proof is normal. Only in the con-artist's world is "proof" a nasty word.

Proof is not a double-edged sword. It simply is what it is. The problem with your rambling explanation is your use of the word, "believe." Reality and belief are like oil and water. If a person considers something to be real, that means he knows it exists. Merely believing something, without experiencing it, does not make it real or true, and is often a big mistake.

Your use of the term, "burden of proof," is incorrect.

We have all been through the "dialog about LRLs," you can see the results in the topic titled, "The Questions LRLers Refuse to Answer."

Why would you want to ask us questions? You are the ones making all the questionable claims, not us.

You have already demonstrated to everyone that you are merely blowing smoke out of your orifice, concerning everything from electronics and LRLs to simple logic; so I wouldn't take any kind of advice from you about those or any other matters.

P.S. Here is "Doc" Brown's email, in case you need it: [email protected]

P.S.S You would do well to learn what spaces after periods and commas, and paragraph separation are all about.

 

[EE THr]

For some weird reason, this appears to be the only thread on the entire site, that is functional at this time.

Steeeerrraaaaaaaaange!

 

[rwizard]

I believe it would take a flow chart and a staff of logicians to follow all of the twisted assertions put forth regarding my very simple and straightforward post.

Here is a scorecard of what actually happened:

Saturna said: "Then there are the ones who sell this nonsense to military people, in harm's way, with claims of finding explosives/bombs etc."

I then replied with a hypothetical scenario in which I could see even cautious, skeptical people, military families, being manipulated into purchasing a worthless device. I also indicated how I would feel about someone who engaged in such a heinous fraud.

Subsequently, Kentucky made a series of inaccurate statements, either because he is not reading carefully, or because such wide of mark statements somehow suit his purpose.

It is my observation that Kentucky never addresses an actual issue, or engages in any dispositive or constructive dialog. He relies instead on an old debating trick, making an inflammatory remark in an effort to focus attention away from the central point. In this regard Kentucky seems to be the very essence of a "one trick pony".

Since my last criticism was not a criticism of LRL users, nor of anyone who sells a machine which actually works, but instead was a criticism of fraudsters victimizing vulnerable and innocent people, I have to wonder what motivates Kentucky to come to the defense of such people. Why on Earth would anyone defend such a person?

I can only think of one reason, and that would be if one somehow could identify with, and empathize with, that sort of behavior. Certainly that could not be true of Kentucky, so I am left to wonder what the reason is for this misguided conduct.

As for the numerous straw men Kentucky has attempted to prop up, there are not enough hours in the day, nor enough substance to his bluster, to justify an effort to knock them down.

No doubt Kentucky will now follow this by quoting my post and adding the lines from the bottom of my OP. He considers this to be a devastating indictment, and illustrative of hypocrisy on my part. He overlooks the fact that he is the one who has repeatedly hijacked this thread with unresponsive sniping. He will once again overlook the fact that my criticisms have been of his statements, tactics, and behaviors, not of him as a human being. As the Dalai Lama once said about the soldiers who invaded his country, "You must hate the act, not the person."

It has been Kentucky's goal throughout to detract from the damning realities by turning this into a schoolyard mud slinging contest. To some degree he has perhaps succeeded at that. But I could not have created a better illustration of the intellectual cowardice, and rampantly disingenuous conduct, of the LRL hucksters than that which Kentucky has so fortuitously created for us in conducting his desultory and deflective campaign.

Thank you sir, I owe you a great debt for making the hollow and indefensible nature of your position clear in such a stark and crystalline fashion.

Kudos for your unwitting skill and unintentional veracity.

I wish you well Kentucky, and hope that someday you will experience an epiphany and reconsider your course in life. Until such time, may you live a long and interesting life.

 

[EE THr]

rwizard---

Yeah. He used the exact same pattern that all the rest of the LRLers use---insult someone, then whine if you get insulted back.

And all the same patterns which you mentioned, as well. Same show, different channel.

He acts like he thinks we haven't seen them all already. Jeez!

 

[rwizard]

rwizard---

Yeah. He used the exact same pattern that all the rest of the LRLers use---insult someone, then whine if you get insulted back.
....<snip>

To tell you the truth, I thought somebody would come forth and presented some sort of a theory in an effort to explain how a LRL is supposed to work. I'd have been happy to give it a fair hearing. But no one has said one thing towards addressing my questions.

If someone asked me how my metal detectors or my magnetometer operated, and why I thought that made them useful for finding stuff, I'd certainly answer the questions. If they said they didn't believe these devices worked, I'd do my best to make a good case for their utility. I'd also be happy to discuss their limitations, which they certainly have.

I can't imagine becoming all hunched down and defensive, refusing to even discuss the topic, and instead investing all my effort in attempting to call into question the character of the person who asked me. Who does that? People with nothing to show, and lots to hide, perhaps? I'd still love to see one honest attempt by someone to make a thoughtful case for LRLs, even if they didn't succeed in persuading me. I guess you have to have the courage of your convictions to make that sort of stand.

Well, no one can honestly say we didn't offer them a chance to make their case.

Take Care.

 

[Saturna]

Bottom line is that the item being discussed is strictly based solely on belief ,and if one wants to believe desperately enough, then nothing else matters.

Lack of proof, lack of evidence of finds, inability to demonstrate, on & on - doesn't matter. As long as the individual wants to believe, every outcome will be interpreted as success. The human mind has an amazing capacity for this.

This is also why some take such massive offense when their dreams/beliefs are challenged.