marks on antique box

[rockcollect]

I have bought this box online and it has marks on it but i can't find them. Does anyone know what these marks mean?

 

[Sandog]

Very nice.

 

[rockcollect]

Very nice.

what material is it made of do you think, the blue and white is enamel.

 

[AU Seeker]

what material is it made of do you think, the blue and white is enamel.

Show the insides of the box.

 

[rockcollect]

Show the insides of the box.

the inside

 

[rockcollect]

this one looks similair: https://www.invaluable.com/auction-...-fine-portrait-of-frederick--117-c-065480db48

 

[AU Seeker]

Are the marks inside the lid actually stamped "into" the metal or just on the surface?

What size is it?

 

[rockcollect]

Are the marks inside the lid actually stamped "into" the metal or just on the surface?

What size is it?

9 x 6 x 2,5 cm i think they are stamped into the metal here are the same marks on a different spot

 

[rockcollect]

Are the marks inside the lid actually stamped "into" the metal or just on the surface?

What size is it?

and what do you think?

 

[AU Seeker]

and what do you think?

I can't find any marks that seem to match yours, maybe @Red-Coat can be of some help.

 

[rockcollect]

I can't find any marks that seem to match yours, maybe @Red-Coat can be of some help.

maybe the box is swiss and the left stamp resembles stamps my aunt send to me.

 

[rockcollect]

it would be crazy if it turnes out to be a gold box like the similair ones on the net.

 

[AU Seeker]

it would be crazy if it turnes out to be a gold box like the similair ones on the net.

Yes I saw some going for a lot of money...but they had easily identifying purity and maker marks on them, and it's hard for me to tell if your marks are only on the surface or actually stamped into the metal, if only on the surface I doubt it a high dollar item.

But I still couldn't find any marks that look like what you have even in the photo you posted.

But there's others here that maybe can give you a more positive ID.

 

[rockcollect]

Yes I saw some going for a lot of money...but they had easily identifying purity and maker marks on them, and it's hard for me to tell if your marks are only on the surface or actually stamped into the metal, if only on the surface I doubt it a high dollar item.

But I still couldn't find any marks that look like what you have even in the photo you posted.

But there's others here that maybe can give you a more positive ID.

I will post better photo's if the box arrives, these photo's where from the online sell platform where i bought it. very fussy.

 

[Red-Coat]

Take a look as this screen-grab of some of the marks on the bottom of a pearl-set gold and blue enamel snuff box offered at a Sotheby’s auction. In combination with the other marks on the piece, it was identified as made by Francois-Claude Théremin and Freres Jordan of Berlin, circa 1785-1790:

I’m not too familiar with the marks (which weren’t explained), but if you compare the mark at the left to the mark on the left of your piece, I believe they’re the same and represent two olive branches crossed at the bottom and topped by a crown.

My belief is that this particular mark was for Berlin as a tax, duty or town mark for certification of precious metals. That doesn’t always mean gold, but would also be used to certify silver if it were the base metal for a silver-gilt item with gold plating. That’s what I think you have, and that it’s probably also a snuff box (for table use). I don’t know the exact period that mark was in use, but probably between late 18th to early 19th Centuries.

The other marks on the Sotheby’s piece provide a full maker attribution, but the second, right-hand mark on yours does not identify it as being from the same prestigious maker. Lots of companies made boxes like this. I believe the ornate squiggly mark on the right in your picture is what’s known as a ‘charge mark’ or ‘discharge mark’, which may be difficult to track down. They were often wavy abstract scribbles and were stamped by Prussian tax collectors to show that tax had been paid on a precious metal item during manufacture and was exempt from being levied again at time of retail purchase. Berlin was the official royal capital of the Kingdom of Prussia between 1701–1871.

So my best guess would be a silver gilt snuff box from an unknown Berlin maker, circa early to mid-1800s. It's a very nice item.

 

[rockcollect]

Take a look as this screen-grab of some of the marks on the bottom of a pearl-set gold and blue enamel snuff box offered at a Sotheby’s auction. In combination with the other marks on the piece, it was identified as made by Francois-Claude Théremin and Freres Jordan of Berlin, circa 1785-1790:

View attachment 2258351

I’m not too familiar with the marks (which weren’t explained), but if you compare the mark at the left to the mark on the left of your piece, I believe they’re the same and represent two olive branches crossed at the bottom and topped by a crown.

My belief is that this particular mark was for Berlin as a tax, duty or town mark for certification of precious metals. That doesn’t always mean gold, but would also be used to certify silver if it were the base metal for a silver-gilt item with gold plating. That’s what I think you have, and that it’s probably also a snuff box (for table use). I don’t know the exact period that mark was in use, but probably between late 18th to early 19th Centuries.

The other marks on the Sotheby’s piece provide a full maker attribution, but the second, right-hand mark on yours does not identify it as being from the same prestigious maker. Lots of companies made boxes like this. I believe the ornate squiggly mark on the right in your picture is what’s known as a ‘charge mark’ or ‘discharge mark’, which may be difficult to track down. They were often wavy abstract scribbles and were stamped by Prussian tax collectors to show that tax had been paid on a precious metal item during manufacture and was exempt from being levied again at time of retail purchase. Berlin was the official royal capital of the Kingdom of Prussia between 1701–1871.

So my best guess would be a silver gilt snuff box from an unknown Berlin maker, circa early to mid-1800s. It's a very nice item.

Wow thanks so much, i will get the box tested to be sure. P.S. i don´t want to bother you but can you take a look at my latest rock. is it some kind of basalt and what are the crystals in it? TOP marks man

 

[rockcollect]

here is another gold box with that same mark: https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auc...a-gold-and-enamel-snuff-box-probably-francois
compare the photo's below of my box and the box from sotheby's. Well not bad for 95 euro's, watch this space

 

[rockcollect]

Take a look as this screen-grab of some of the marks on the bottom of a pearl-set gold and blue enamel snuff box offered at a Sotheby’s auction. In combination with the other marks on the piece, it was identified as made by Francois-Claude Théremin and Freres Jordan of Berlin, circa 1785-1790:

View attachment 2258351

I’m not too familiar with the marks (which weren’t explained), but if you compare the mark at the left to the mark on the left of your piece, I believe they’re the same and represent two olive branches crossed at the bottom and topped by a crown.

My belief is that this particular mark was for Berlin as a tax, duty or town mark for certification of precious metals. That doesn’t always mean gold, but would also be used to certify silver if it were the base metal for a silver-gilt item with gold plating. That’s what I think you have, and that it’s probably also a snuff box (for table use). I don’t know the exact period that mark was in use, but probably between late 18th to early 19th Centuries.

The other marks on the Sotheby’s piece provide a full maker attribution, but the second, right-hand mark on yours does not identify it as being from the same prestigious maker. Lots of companies made boxes like this. I believe the ornate squiggly mark on the right in your picture is what’s known as a ‘charge mark’ or ‘discharge mark’, which may be difficult to track down. They were often wavy abstract scribbles and were stamped by Prussian tax collectors to show that tax had been paid on a precious metal item during manufacture and was exempt from being levied again at time of retail purchase. Berlin was the official royal capital of the Kingdom of Prussia between 1701–1871.

So my best guess would be a silver gilt snuff box from an unknown Berlin maker, circa early to mid-1800s. It's a very nice item.

Dear Red Coat, i finally got the boxes delivered. could they be gold?

 

[rockcollect]

Take a look as this screen-grab of some of the marks on the bottom of a pearl-set gold and blue enamel snuff box offered at a Sotheby’s auction. In combination with the other marks on the piece, it was identified as made by Francois-Claude Théremin and Freres Jordan of Berlin, circa 1785-1790:

View attachment 2258351

I’m not too familiar with the marks (which weren’t explained), but if you compare the mark at the left to the mark on the left of your piece, I believe they’re the same and represent two olive branches crossed at the bottom and topped by a crown.

My belief is that this particular mark was for Berlin as a tax, duty or town mark for certification of precious metals. That doesn’t always mean gold, but would also be used to certify silver if it were the base metal for a silver-gilt item with gold plating. That’s what I think you have, and that it’s probably also a snuff box (for table use). I don’t know the exact period that mark was in use, but probably between late 18th to early 19th Centuries.

The other marks on the Sotheby’s piece provide a full maker attribution, but the second, right-hand mark on yours does not identify it as being from the same prestigious maker. Lots of companies made boxes like this. I believe the ornate squiggly mark on the right in your picture is what’s known as a ‘charge mark’ or ‘discharge mark’, which may be difficult to track down. They were often wavy abstract scribbles and were stamped by Prussian tax collectors to show that tax had been paid on a precious metal item during manufacture and was exempt from being levied again at time of retail purchase. Berlin was the official royal capital of the Kingdom of Prussia between 1701–1871.

So my best guess would be a silver gilt snuff box from an unknown Berlin maker, circa early to mid-1800s. It's a very nice item.

here is the other box, gold? with turtleshell and miniature painting and signed

 

[Red-Coat]

Dear Red Coat, i finally got the boxes delivered. could they be gold?

For the first box, I can only repeat what I already said. I believe these are marks for a Berlin piece, probably from the first half of the 1800s, with the second mark likely being a tax-related Prussian mark used for precious metals. As far as I know, marks like this would have been used on both silver gilt and gold, but there is no specific mark to say the piece is gold, or a maker mark that that can be specifically attributed the Berlin makers Francois-Claude Théremin and Frères Jordan.

It’s common to see serial numbers stamped on these kinds of boxes, either as an inventory/style number, or to ensure that individual component parts were properly matched during their final assembly (in which case the same number usually appears on all of the parts.)

To go further, you need it to be looked at by an expert.