MD Arrests and Fines

[greydigger]

< another inquisitive mind.
Gosh that's a heavy fine.

 

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[Ricardo_NY1]

For the curious minds..........it was a pretty formal hearing. You get an administrative law judge who swears you in, they record the hearing on tape and you are allowed to present your case and submit any evidence you may have. I presented my case to them and focused on certain key points pertaining to the deficiancy of language on the permit, all the while attempting to not have any rules rewritten. I raised the issue that we are left at our discretion to decide what is and what is not a manicured lawn because the parks department does not provide the appropiate language or description for us to make a decision. I submitted copies of my permit, copies of the event permit obtained by Glenn, copies of my submission for information regarding manicured lawns to the commissioner and communications between myself and a captain of parks enforcement regarding an investigation of the incident. I also submitted on the site photographs of the "Manicured Lawn" for the judge to decide for herself. Photo enclosed. Wish me luck, as I have a bad feeling about this one.

 

[DFX-SE Gregg]

The only good thing about that lawn is your Explorer! The judge hopefully will see this manicured lawn is just a bed of weeds...

 

[EZrider]

Gregg, you would think so but you dont know how money hungry NYC is.

 

[DFX-SE Gregg]

Gregg, you would think so but you dont know how money hungry NYC is.

Very sad...here we have a citizen just enjoying a hobby and a fine which is obviously excessive even if it turns out he should not have been there! Ok...I could see maybe $25 and a do not return...but turning this soil at this park is a favor!!! It is obviously more than the park employees have done...

 

[OldOwl]

Great forum. I've read this entire thread so as not to ask redundant questions, and I'm not sure I see my answer. I'm kind of getting the idea that National Parks are regulated by the states? My question is, are "National Parks" off limits to metal detecting and digging, say with a sand sifter or small garden type spade?

I spent many years detecting, wreck diving, relic hunting, and published over 20 articles for the usual magazines. When the "baby" was born, activities like scuba, hunting, fishing, detecting, The Harley, all ended. But she's almost grown up and I'm getting back into it all.

Anyway, since I took the break, some islands I used to hunt regularly have become a national park and I'm a little worried about going out there now. In my state, almost ANY infraction of the law and they will pull you concealed fire arm permit. Who could I check with to be sure?

Thanks for any help. Hopefully I'll get to spend more time here.

 

[greydigger]

I would suggest contacting the National Park itself -
"Yosemity National Park" ect. I stopped into Deschutes National Forest Ranger station and they said most "National Forests" are huntable. Different from "National Parks".
Don't want to lose your CCP!

 

[OldOwl]

Good suggestion. It took some digging (no pun) online, but I finally found a phone number and actually got a real live person to speak with. She beat around the bush but I finally extracted from her that it was okay to metal detect, but not to remove anything from the islands, since they are on the historic register. There's no shortage of war and pirate history here.

So that leaves me withe the question, do I want to work for the state? Of course, a clever person could devise a means for things to leave the island under their own power with the rising tide.

 

[Bridge End Farm]

I think I would get a name, date, time of call etc personally for I have asked Johnny Ranger to hunt some federal forest areas here in Florida and been told no. I guess it really comes down to who definition of what is below

Here are the legal citations:

Code of Federal Regulations, 36 CFR 261.9: "The following are
prohibited: (g) digging in, excavating, disturbing, injuring, destroying,
or in any way damaging any prehistoric, historic, or archaeological
resources, structure, site, artifact, or property. (h) Removing any
prehistoric, historic, or archaeological resources, structure, site,
artifact, property."

USDA Forest Service Manual Direction (draft): "Metal Detector Use. Metal
detectors may be used on public lands in areas that do not contain or
would not reasonably be expected to contain archaeological or historical
resources. They must be used, however, for lawful purposes. Any act with
a metal detector that violates the proscriptions of the Archaeological
Resources Protection Act (ARPA) or any other law is prosecutable.
Normally, developed campgrounds, swimming beaches, and other developed
recreation sites are open to metal detecting unless there are heritage
resources present. In such cases, Forest Supervisors are authorized to
close these sites by posting notices in such sites."

ARPA, 16 U.S.C. 470cc: "No person may excavate, remove, damage, or
otherwise alter or deface or attempt to excavate, remove, damage or
otherwise alter or deface any archaeological resources located on public lands or Indian
lands unless such activity is pursuant to a permit. . ."

Link of more links, I am sure there are others

http://www.treasurefish.com/government.htm

 

[cammobunker]

A few years back a couple of guys got caught on Pea Ridge National Military Park near where I live.
The park service really read them the good news. They lost their equipment, wound up paying some crazy fine like $500 and got to go do community service for a few weeks.
And, if I may say so, rightfully so.
With so many of our battlefields being turned into condos, this one-voted the best preserved in the country-needs to stay the way it is.
There are tons of other sites, including a winter camp *someplace* around here (nobody seems to know just exactly where, but it is documented) that offer great hunting.

Later on, there was a nice piece in the news about some archaeologists who were doing research and had volunteers with MDs helping out, but it was being done with proper scientific method, all gridded off and recorded like it should be.

 

[pegleglooker]

hey all,
One word of advice, if you are going to talk to someone on the phone, get to Radio Shack first. They have a device that costs about $6 with a suction cup that you can attach to the back of the earpiece on your phone. Then Connect the other end to a recorder and talk. Legally you supposed to tell them that you are recording, but it wouldn't hurt to have a recording " proving " what someone said in case they want to retract it. Just a FYI.

PLL

 

[Tom_in_CA]

sheesk, all these precautions And all these people who didn't care (or think about it) until you asked (as if there was something wrong to begin with). It's kind of like picking your nose. Just do it, but be discreet. No one ever bothers me??

 

[OldOwl]

Tom, it comes down with what's at stake. Thirty years ago I'd have dug the lawn at the Governor's mansion without a care. I have a lot more to lose now if I get in trouble. It's a lot easier for me to go 40 feet below the water and NOBODY knows what I'm doing.

Thanks for all the tips. Talk with you all soon.

 

[greydigger]

BEF- those legal descriptions are on the printed piece of paper I got from the Forest Ranger station. It also said "modern" coins, lost items, etc. were ok.

 

[Marauder Dan]

I gotta tell ya.being scarey and ugly has its perks,,scares the hell outta people LOL and of course carrying a large knive for a digging tool helps keep the noseys out of your way,,you know it pisses me off with all these fuckin rules and regs especially considering how much land is wasted on yet another shopping mall or condos!!I try to be reasonably respectfull of most folks,especially the badge wearing ones,but I aint kissing their ass either,,and if the main way is blocked to get to a site then there is alway a back door hehe,,when we were kids ,we aalways seemed to know when the cops were coming so wed bust out fast enough and always find a way to run LOL

 

[Bridge End Farm]

BEF- those legal descriptions are on the printed piece of paper I got from the Forest Ranger station. It also said "modern" coins, lost items, etc. were ok.

great wish you the best and have fun at that campout look forward to all you folks finds and posts