mesa indian bowl

[ink-a-alot]

just wanted to share this bowl i found a long time ago.

 

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[seger98]

Re: Caddo indian bowl

Nice pot, I've resized it so we can see it better, hope you don't mind!

 

[DANGLANGLEY]

Re: Caddo indian bowl

Wow, that is beautiful. Thanks for sharing

DANGLANGLEY

 

[Neanderthal]

Re: Caddo indian bowl

Where are you from? That doesn't look caddo.

 

[d2]

Re: Caddo indian bowl

doesnt look Caddo to me either but I have been wrong befor...d2

 

[Neanderthal]

Re: Caddo indian bowl

Ink, either someone is pulling your leg...or you're pulling ours. I thought your name and something about this looked strangely familiar. Your pot is meso-american - from Mexico I'll wager. I surfed back through the posts and found this post http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,205763.0.html . Meso-American spindle whorls that you said you found, and now this pops up.


OK, here's where it gets sticky. I believe your piece is from Mexico (most likely the states of Jalisco or Colima), I recognize the slip, form and patination. It's not a question of someone hundreds of years ago or even a thousand years ago that came over to your neck of the woods and lost them. The patination on that vessel is CLASSIC for meso-american pottery (that's where it spent the time to develope that patination). It didn't spend any real time under the ground up in the states. I'm VERY familiar with that patination and look on pottery. So someone is pulling someone's leg.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

Re: Caddo indian bowl

nice piece...surface find? amazing.

i don't know much about the caddo...people all over the southwest made ceramics similar...could be a trade item.

 

[Flintfinder of Mo.]

Re: Caddo indian bowl

Ink, I would be interested to see your responce. I know that you have the opinion of an absolute expert on pottery. No one knows everything, that's a fact. I really dont think Neanderthal would give you his words on it unless he meant it. John

 

[ink-a-alot]

Re: Caddo indian bowl

Ink, I would be interested to see your responce. I know that you have the opinion of an absolute expert on pottery. No one knows everything, that's a fact. I really dont think Neanderthal would give you his words on it unless he meant it. John

I never said i was an expert! first of all, This came out of the same area that i found the other pot, i only think it's caddo because i was told Caddo indians lived here. could it be trade? I dont know but i promise you that i am not pulling Antone's leg... Yall seem to know more then i do about pottery, if its from Mexico i dont care i found it and i know where it came from, as far as those spindles go those came from where i said they did. My cousin found a spanyard spur at the same creek crossing and i reckon they came up from Mexico. could yall do some research on Spring branch crossing?? or Rock Crossing on Sulphur river? maybey you both can find an answer about the history the people who came through there...Flint finder i never said i was an expert!! so dont come on my post and say things that i have never said! Is it possible that my finds have been traded I have found Quarts in around Texas that has been traded from ARKANSA.

 

[Neanderthal]

Re: Caddo indian bowl

I never said i was an expert! first of all, This came out of the same area that i found the other pot, i only think it's caddo because i was told Caddo indians lived here. could it be trade? I dont know but i promise you that i am not pulling Antone's leg... Yall seem to know more then i do about pottery, if its from Mexico i dont care i found it and i know where it came from, as far as those spindles go those came from where i said they did. My cousin found a spanyard spur at the same creek crossing and i reckon they came up from Mexico. could yall do some research on Spring branch crossing?? or Rock Crossing on Sulphur river? maybey you both can find an answer about the history the people who came through there...Flint finder i never said i was an expert!! so dont come on my post and say things that i have never said! Is it possible that my finds have been traded I have found Quarts in around Texas that has been traded from ARKANSA.

Caddo never made vessels in the manner in which yours is made. The slip, form and even deposits on are completely meso-american. I can state also that the deposits and mineralization on your vessel is consistent with Mexican pottery. I can also tell you that your vessel was not found by being "exposed", it most likely was dug. It exhibits the typical "black splatter" of organic decay and the calcium carbonate deposits that are found in certain situations. In other words, if your piece was laying around in texas somewhere..it wasn't there long at all and someone put it there specifically to fool someone. I can show you images of meso-american pottery with the tell-tale exposure signatures if you would like.

Here are the facts as I can see them. Your vessel is meso. Your "beads" are meso spindle whorls. All of these items show mineralization and patination that is consistent with being from meso-america / Mexico and NONE from having being exposed to other environs for any length of time. Simply, they didn't spend really any length of time in Caddo area. Any Caddo (or pottery) efficienado can look at those pieces and quickly determine that.

Your vessel looks completely authentic and I don't question that at all, only the provenance. If you found these, they were placed there recently. Consider this an opportunity to research ceramics and the cultures involved and appreciate the artifacts for what they are.

 

[*Molly*]

Re: Caddo indian bowl

It's good to have experts, to guide us new collectors.
Thanks Matt.

Molly.

 

[ink-a-alot]

Re: Caddo indian bowl

It's good to have experts, to guide us new collectors.
Thanks Matt.

Molly.

I wish I knew as much as yall do! Are you A professor? What was all this used for?? And why would it be here??

 

[Neanderthal]

Re: Caddo indian bowl

I wish I knew as much as yall do! Are you A professor? What was all this used for?? And why would it be here??

Ancient artifacts are my forte, ceramics are my specialty. I'm the curator of the Museum of Native American Artifacts in Bentonville, Ark. I'm not a professor, but I do my part to help educate others on the subject.

"What was it used for" - It's a plain, utilitarian jar.

"Why would it be here" - They (jar and whorls) weren't left there by aboriginals and haven't been there long, or at least exposed to any outside environs for any lengthy period of time. Possible scenarios: 1. someone planted them there for you to find as a joke. 2. your provenance is faulty. 3. somebody recently decided to dump (or lost) them there for some unknown reason.

 

[archaeon]

Re: Caddo indian bowl

i wonder if the pot is a spindle whorl holder?

 

[pickaway]

Re: Caddo indian bowl

Neat bowl...

 

[ink-a-alot]

Re: Caddo indian bowl

i wonder if the pot is a spindle whorl holder?

What duzz a spindle worl do??

 

[archaeon]

Re: Caddo indian bowl

i wonder if the pot is a spindle whorl holder?

What duzz a spindle worl do??

a spindle whorl had a stick attached to it, they would spin it to make yarn

 

[ink-a-alot]

Re: Caddo indian bowl

i wonder if the pot is a spindle whorl holder?

What duzz a spindle worl do??

a spindle whorl had a stick attached to it, they would spin it to make yarn

Im goin to go with yall and say it's a Mesa bowl, but why was it in East Texas?

 

[jeff of pa]

I fixed your Pics.

Very nice Bowl !

 

[ouachitacaveman]

I have been helping at a local University in
the documentation and re-construction of
Caddo pottery. We carefully study the pots,
bowls, and jars we analyze.
The items pictured in this post and the
other post titled Caddo bowl are not like
anything Caddo I have seen. The design
is totally wrong, and there are no typical features
such as incising or engraving that are usually used
on Caddo pottery. I agree with Neaderthal, though
he is more knowledgeable than I.
There were several trade-routes and major trails
that went through East Texas, and your pottery likely
came overland via these channels to reach your area.
You have nice vessels, but I agree ... not from the Caddo tribe.

.