Met a jerk today

[Ray in CA]

Thanks Jim.

Blacksheep, I consider myself a very courteous detectorist. I only detect where I am legally permitted, and where I need permission I ask. I fill my holes to the point where you can't even tell or almost couldn't tell I had just dug a hole. When I feel my detecting may cause a problem in a certain area, even if I can legally detect there, I go with my gut and pass it up. I have never had any problems with detecting easements, especially in front of vacated houses. People are always asking what I'm doing, what do I find, how long I've been doing it. They are fascinated with the prospect of someone finding treasure. This guy was an exception to the rule. He thought he could strong arm me with his position in the sheriff's office and with calling the police. He could have just called the police from inside his home and let them come and handle it (which I have had happen before with no problems). But he made the choice to come outside and across the street to harass me instead, and I defended myself just as I have the right to do when engaging in a legal activity and not causing anyone any harm by it.

Given that you are a T-Netter of some sort, and like to treasure hunt like the rest of us, I certainly hope you never have to meet a guy like this and be made to feel like you're being forced away from a spot where you are just minding your own business and enjoying your hobby.

HH,

Ray

 

[vanoldschool]

I call these types Intruders, did you at least get to find anything? go back at 0 darkthirty, sunrise is about 530am, I usulally geta good two hours before people come out.

 

[BURLIVES]

Ray...I'll be more than happy to detect his side .... most people like that just can't stand the fact that you might just find something. Don't ever let it stop you from doing what ya love! Burl

 

[gmanlight]

Ray your OK in my book .
You can detect my sidewalk any time you like HH Mike

 

[hogge]

I'd have told him to F--- O--!! And No I'm not kidding. That's my "Personal" code of ethics. Hogge I own my own business. I do not lie to people and I expect the same. As soon as someone starts to lie, you can see it in there eyes and expression. It's called reading people. Then ALL respect is lost and I shift gears. I avoid confrontation at all costs, but as soon as the first shot is fired.....The game is on! This is where I really shine.

 

[BuckleBoy]

I'm glad you don't own a detector either.

Ray DID treat this situation with common curtosy...he was NOT digging the crank's R.O.W. (despite his legal right to do so), the land the crank does edge and clean so the city doesn't have too. Let's NOT forget that! To compare this incident with teenage punks blocking access to a local business is just plain silly. This is NO different than the crank telling you to leave the city park because you're the wrong color, wrong religion, wrong income bracket. Metal Detectorist have the SAME rights as the rest of America to enjoy public lands and pursue legal hobbies.

And the attitude you show is one of the biggest reasons "cranks" are getting their way, not just with detectorists but a great many other hobbies/activities as well.

You show em champ, show em good!

I agree 100%, Blacksheep.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Good in-puts so far.

Have you noticed that those who feel that Ray did the wrong thing, either by 1) detecting on the sidewalk grass median to begin with, or by 2) not immediately saying "yes sir" to the complainer, would probably not have thought twice about the situation, if Ray's post had ended with the first neighbor, who only said "oh cool! good luck!". It's only when a busy-body snivels, that some folks either say "you need to immediately move on" or "gee, you must've been doing something wrong or illegal". Why is that? I mean, since when do we base our lives and actions on the whims of anyone who gripes? For example: if someone flips you off in traffic, for what they feel is a bad lane change, do you humbly go home, and cease driving? Do you ask this person who flipped you off, for permission to drive next time? Why then, all of the sudden, does anyone who is having a bad day, get to dictate things to md'rs? I mean, sure, be courteous, use common sense (just like driving), but no, it doesn't mean they're right. I mean, heck, this was an abandoned house even, and wasn't even the griper's side of the street!

I had a friend who was detecting sidewalk grass strips once. He was only probing for shallow stuff or whatever. A fellow come out of one house and tells him to leave. My friend explains to him that it is city eavesment, and he is doing no harm. My friend was going to move on anyways (as he was working his way along anyhow), but the guy persisted in getting in my friend's face, and said he was going to call the cops. At THAT, my friend started getting p*ssed. So he says "go ahead, do it. Let's both wait here together for them". Sure enough, the cops came, and each person tells their side of the story. The cops took my friend aside, and told him "you're in the right, and we're going to tell him that. However, do us a favor, and move on, just so we can shut this cry-baby up". :P

 

[arizonaames]

Maybe he was a Community organizer

Maybe he was hired by the Health Care Corporations to cause trouble......

 

[Blacksheep]

Good in-puts so far.

Have you noticed that those who feel that Ray did the wrong thing, either by 1) detecting on the sidewalk grass median to begin with, or by 2) not immediately saying "yes sir" to the complainer, would probably not have thought twice about the situation, if Ray's post had ended with the first neighbor, who only said "oh cool! good luck!". It's only when a busy-body snivels, that some folks either say "you need to immediately move on" or "gee, you must've been doing something wrong or illegal". Why is that? I mean, since when do we base our lives and actions on the whims of anyone who gripes? For example: if someone flips you off in traffic, for what they feel is a bad lane change, do you humbly go home, and cease driving? Do you ask this person who flipped you off, for permission to drive next time? Why then, all of the sudden, does anyone who is having a bad day, get to dictate things to md'rs? I mean, sure, be courteous, use common sense (just like driving), but no, it doesn't mean they're right. I mean, heck, this was an abandoned house even, and wasn't even the griper's side of the street!

I had a friend who was detecting sidewalk grass strips once. He was only probing for shallow stuff or whatever. A fellow come out of one house and tells him to leave. My friend explains to him that it is city eavesment, and he is doing no harm. My friend was going to move on anyways (as he was working his way along anyhow), but the guy persisted in getting in my friend's face, and said he was going to call the cops. At THAT, my friend started getting p*ssed. So he says "go ahead, do it. Let's both wait here together for them". Sure enough, the cops came, and each person tells their side of the story. The cops took my friend aside, and told him "you're in the right, and we're going to tell him that. However, do us a favor, and move on, just so we can shut this cry-baby up". :P

It amazes me just how many cannot seem to look past the end of their nose. We continue to lose access, options and activities because of this "the law says I can so I will at any cost" attitude. Those right-of-ways were not put in place for use by the general public, they are there for maintenance/aesthetic purposes and you would risk the use of all the public green space in any particular city by digging in front of somebodies house because a technicality in the "law" says you can and all that for a remote chance at a 1956 wheat penny or two?

I`m all for everybody being able to use public lands and keeping as much open and available for use by detectorists, I even agree with the detecting right-of-ways to a point and the point where that ends is where somebody takes issue with it, like the "crank" above.

Now that "crank" will be talking to his neighbors, his friends and quite possibly his coworkers at the sheriffs dept. (you know, those guys who try to keep the peace and have a helluva lot of pull with local government officials). Next thing you know, metal detecting in your city is now limited to private property only, it happened real quick, a show of hands at the last council meeting ended yet another "harmless" activity because somebody with a metal detector just couldn't resist that oh-so tempting strip of grass three feet wide and forty feet long... in somebody else`s neighborhood.

Pick and choose your battles carefully and think to yourselves "is it worth the risk" prior to arguing your point with a "crank", it might just keep this hobby alive and well for a few more years.

 

[Goodyguy]

I'm a bit heated right now.

I was minding my own business tonight detecting an easement in front of an old, vacated house. The neighbor next door comes out and asks me what I'm doing, and after a short chat he wishes me luck. Then the neighbor across the street comes over and decides he's gonna tell me how disrespectful he thinks it is for me to do what I'm doing one someone else's "property." He then informs me he's with the sheriff's office (as if I care) and that he's called the local police and is expecting them to come out in a little while.

I tell him that's fine, but informed him that first of all the easement is not someone's property but city property, and that there is no city ordinance against what I'm doing, i.e. it's perfectly legal. Secondly, I fill in all my holes so as to not create a hazard for anyone who walks on it, because I'm respectful. Just then he gets a phone call on his cell...it's the police. I hear him telling them what I've been doing, and apparently he didn't get the answer he wanted, i.e. that my activity is illegal. He gets off and then proceeds to repeat how he feels that what I'm doing is disrespectful, blah blah blah.

I guess I wasn't in the mood to listen to any more of his tripe. If he wasn't going to listen to the police then he was going to get an earful from me. So I just pretty much let him have it, and with a real perturbed tone in my voice I said, "You know, I'm out here enjoying a perfectly clean and decent hobby. I'm not hurting anyone, I'm not harassing anyone. What I am doing is perfectly legal, and you have the nerve to come out here and harass me? I could be digging in the easement on YOUR side, buddy, but I'm not!" (I was sooo tempted to say, "Next time I come out, I AM digging on YOUR easement!", but I'm not a vindictive or spiteful person, so I didn't.)

After that my mood to detect was just ruined and I headed home. This was the first time I actually argued with someone over my detecting. Normally I just brush it off and move on. Not this time!

Happier Hunting to all,

Ray

Sorry this happened to you Ray, I believe you did the right thing by explaining your position to the complainer.
I know once someone is in your face with their attitude is is very hard not to give it back to them, especially when you are in the right.

I have only had this happen to me once and this was by a next door neighbor to the property I was on, who started off giving me an earful about my digging. The police were never called (to my knowledge) and after giving the man my explanation of how I was on city property and that I was careful to leave as little trace of my digging as possible. His tone softened some but he continued to watch my every move. I tried to explain to him how much fun this hobby is and if he wanted to try I would show him how. No, he would not have any of that. Well the fun was gone now so I just covered my hole and left.

Thankfully out of all the years I have metal detected that was the only time I ever got a negative complaint about my activity. I have had police cars stop and ask what I was doing or how my luck was but I have never been asked to leave.

I rarely detect on public property because I would rather have permission where there is no doubt that what I am doing is acceptable, than to be harassed and have my enjoyment killed by some busybody.

Of course if I had been finding good stuff I would have stayed put, and maybe even tried to get his permission to detect his property.


GG~

 

[Tom_in_CA]

blacksheep, next time you're walking down the beach whistling, I will confront you about the noise-pollution you are creating by whistling. Do you listen to me, apologize, and stop whistling? Of course you should stop, right? Afterall, I complained, right? You wouldn't want to give beach-walkers or whistlers a bad name, right? Let's be consistent here afterall. You've got to look past the end of your nose. Give my noise-pollution gripe primary importance!

If you or I moved on, the minute someone sniveled, THAT'S what can give the hobby a "bad name". Because think of it: what does that act of you or I moving on, tell the sniveler? That he was right! And then he'll persist in his error, convince his neighbors and city folk, etc... Sure, there's a *right way* to go about explaining his error, but to simply run away, merely confirms their suspicion that you were up to no good.

 

[Blacksheep]

blacksheep, next time you're walking down the beach whistling, I will confront you about the noise-pollution you are creating by whistling. Do you listen to me, apologize, and stop whistling? Of course you should stop, right? Afterall, I complained, right? You wouldn't want to give beach-walkers or whistlers a bad name, right? Let's be consistent here afterall. You've got to look past the end of your nose. Give my noise-pollution gripe primary importance!

If you or I moved on, the minute someone sniveled, THAT'S what can give the hobby a "bad name". Because think of it: what does that act of you or I moving on, tell the sniveler? That he was right! And then he'll persist in his error, convince his neighbors and city folk, etc... Sure, there's a *right way* to go about explaining his error, but to simply run away, merely confirms their suspicion that you were up to no good.

Your comparing digging in somebodies front yard with a walk on the beach? Tom, be realistic and at least try to empathize with city property owners. Your heavy handed attitude is whats killing the hobby, not my desire to be understanding and diplomatic for the common good of the hobby.


(yes, sometimes walking away is the best solution)

 

[Fr3nchy27]

blacksheep, next time you're walking down the beach whistling, I will confront you about the noise-pollution you are creating by whistling. Do you listen to me, apologize, and stop whistling? Of course you should stop, right? Afterall, I complained, right? You wouldn't want to give beach-walkers or whistlers a bad name, right? Let's be consistent here afterall. You've got to look past the end of your nose. Give my noise-pollution gripe primary importance!

If you or I moved on, the minute someone sniveled, THAT'S what can give the hobby a "bad name". Because think of it: what does that act of you or I moving on, tell the sniveler? That he was right! And then he'll persist in his error, convince his neighbors and city folk, etc... Sure, there's a *right way* to go about explaining his error, but to simply run away, merely confirms their suspicion that you were up to no good.

AMEN!!!! Totally agree!

 

[gmanlight]

[Sidewalk hunting is a technicality in the law] is that the same is a little pregnant.
How is this any different than hunting a ball field if the guy across the street comes over
and gives you an earful. The police new Ray was in the right and didn't even bother with a drive-by.
[Detecting at all cost attitude] Does that mean Ray or anybody else should run and hide
the first time somebody gives you a dirty look. Ray made his point and told his side of the story.
He didn't try to punch the guy. [When somebody starts by saying you know who I am or
I know people] These people think they're always right and have the only word.

Up here in the Northeast cities wintertime parking can be a problem people put cones and chairs out in the [street] to reserve their parking space like they actually own it . Now if I park there I might
have a rock in my windshield when I get back but that doesn't make me wrong.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

blacksheep, I think I see the problem. You equate md'ing to an automatic: "digging in somebodies front yard" That statement is full of inferences, that ..... if taken their knee-jerk conclusion, would in fact make your position correct. So let's dissect your statement:

1) "digging holes" implies, to the average house-wife, that you are making a mess, leaving craters, etc.... I mean, afterall, what ELSE does "holes" mean to the non-md'r, eh? So the minute someone sees that statement, they will say "of course you can't do that". But wait! Do you leave holes when you metal detect? Do you leave any sign of your presence? If so, then you need to learn again how to retrieve targets. Because the last I checked, anyone who had graduated beyond sandbox hunting, to any form of turf hunting, knows how to leave no sign of their presence, look discreet, etc...

2) "in someone's front yard" Again, mental image gone-awry. We are not in "someone's front yard". We are on the public sidewalk strip outside their front yard.

You see how things get cleared up when things get read S-L-O-W-L-Y and carefully?

 

[Jeep]

That is why I always wear a orange vest and hardhat

Everyone ignores a working Joe, Just another city worker in there mind, Yet I impersonate no one.

Even my special ID badge that I made has never been read.

If they ever did they would see the name is: U.R. Stupid.
Dept of Treasure
City of Dreams

But hey, it's laminated and looks good.

 

[Blacksheep]

blacksheep, I think I see the problem. You equate md'ing to an automatic: "digging in somebodies front yard" That statement is full of inferences, that ..... if taken their knee-jerk conclusion, would in fact make your position correct. So let's dissect your statement:

1) "digging holes" implies, to the average house-wife, that you are making a mess, leaving craters, etc.... I mean, afterall, what ELSE does "holes" mean to the non-md'r, eh? So the minute someone sees that statement, they will say "of course you can't do that". But wait! Do you leave holes when you metal detect? Do you leave any sign of your presence? If so, then you need to learn again how to retrieve targets. Because the last I checked, anyone who had graduated beyond sandbox hunting, to any form of turf hunting, knows how to leave no sign of their presence, look discreet, etc...

2) "in someone's front yard" Again, mental image gone-awry. We are not in "someone's front yard". We are on the public sidewalk strip outside their front yard.

You see how things get cleared up when things get read S-L-O-W-L-Y and carefully?

I see Tom, I really do "see". I see that I have been an advocate for the wrong people. How foolish of me to believe that the people who metal detect actually care enough about their neighbors that they would know when their hobby may adversely effect those neighbors and act accordingly.

Because of this one particular thread and the obvious attitude that discounts and berates common courtesies on so many different levels it boggles the mind, I feel I have little choice but to contact my alderman to discuss the issue at length. Enjoy your detecting.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Slow down, and once again dissect your statements slowly to see on-going in-correct inferences:

1) "may adversely effect those neighbors". Sure, once again, if there is some damage or adverse affect, then by all means, DON'T DO IT. We agree on this. What's the problem? The problem is, that you make an automatic connection between metal detecting and damage (or "adverse affect"). I do not. If you, on the other hand, create "adverse affect" and/or "damage", then you are right, you are doing something wrong in your retrieving, and shouldn't be doing it. Hook up with an experienced hunter, and re-learn some basic retrieval skills.

2) "berates common courtesies". Do YOU berate common courtesy? I don't. If you do, then you're doing something wrong. Are you leaving holes? I don't get it. And how about the other neighbor who initially who approached Ray with nothing but a friendly "good luck"? Certainly if Ray, or other md'rs on parking strips, are such an atom bomb, why isn't everyone rushing to their alderman?

It is clear that you have a pre-set mental image that everyone is against md'ing, and that metal detecting means automatic holes, lack of courtesy, etc... To the contrary! I find, when I metal detect, that most people are naturally curious, friendly, and always want to know "what's the best thing you ever found?" and "how deep will it go?" and "gee that looks like fun", etc... But no: your mental image is that we are geeks with shovels stepping over people's beach blankets, leaving holes, blindly stepping out in traffic, and boofing all at the same time. Where do you get all this? Lighten up!

 

[Jeep]

Intermission and Lets all sing:

And she'll have fun fun fun
'Til her daddy takes the TNet away
(Fun fun fun 'til her daddy takes the TNet away)

 

[sniffer]

blacksheep, the next time you think about parking on the street, think again. because according to you, nobody can park there, it's for city use only and the homeowner of the adjacent property.
you still have to use your head and RESPECT the property you're on.
I like Jeeps idea, nobody questions the working guy, they just let them work and are surprised if anything is fixed