Michigan Law State Owned Land - Not Parks ??

[mwbutcher]

Am I looking in the wrong place or did I get the wrong guy

I want to detect on State land open to hunting - not a State Park. Below is what I was told.

Well...after several calls and transfers later - I ended up with a geologist for the states forest management division. He says that with everyone that he check with (and he called me back twice) says there is no law that says you can't but more importantly not one that says you can so you can't metal detect on state land open to hunting.

So here we sit with no law saying we can't but no law saying we can either so can't wins. That just does not seem right to me.

He pointed to a lack of any administrative order allowing the activity on land owned by the state. He even said that they are working on an administrative order to allow the collecting of rocks from the beach which I might add he says is currently not allowed and if a park ranger wanted to be a dink about things could write you a ticket. How about that..

There has got to be an answer for this...anyone else have any ideas.

Frustrated - Mark
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[mpostma]

Actually what you got was the beauracrat two step. Having served in public office the way it works is this: If there is no law says you can't, then you can.
Remember, we own the land. We the people. There is some kind of law that says if it's over a hundred years old......, but if there isn't a law excluding an activity, then what can they give you a ticket for?

I have hunted public land just like hundreds, if not thousands, of mders and I will continue to do so until they try to make it illegal. I would note that I have taken my state rep out on a hunt (1907 Indian) and speak often with my state senator, who encourages me and gives me ideas of where to hunt.

I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to hunt state land! The activity is recognized by our state parks, and regulated there.

Good Luck,
Mark

 

[Mike from MI]

Go to the MI DNR site. They have a spot there where you can look at all state parks, rec areas, and land that is open, restricted or closed to detecting.

 

[mwbutcher]

Actually what you got was the beauracrat two step. Having served in public office the way it works is this: If there is no law says you can't, then you can.
Remember, we own the land. We the people. There is some kind of law that says if it's over a hundred years old......, but if there isn't a law excluding an activity, then what can they give you a ticket for?

I have hunted public land just like hundreds, if not thousands, of mders and I will continue to do so until they try to make it illegal. I would note that I have taken my state rep out on a hunt (1907 Indian) and speak often with my state senator, who encourages me and gives me ideas of where to hunt.

I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to hunt state land! The activity is recognized by our state parks, and regulated there.

Good Luck,
Mark

That is a great idea - my State rep is a friend and former county commissioner. I may give him a call and set up a time to take him out. Funny thing our rep is the brother of our senator - two for one and they both are advocates of outdoor sports.

I think...........detecting I will go on state land open to hunting.

Thanks again - Mark

 

[postalgriff]

I was wondering about this myself, do you guys know if there is a difference between metal detecting on a state rec area and a state gaming area? that DNR website is a little depressing. there is a huge state rec area (over 20,000 acres) near us that has a lot of old homesite foundations in the woods, and the only area allowed for detecting is a couple of parking lots, oh yipee it's a joke. ok for game hunting, but not relic hunting. any exceptions or loop holes known?

 

[jopher]

This is a good read from someone who has tried to make sense of it all.
It only clarifies that the laws are fuzzy......but its still a good read and encourages involvement . http://www.metal-detecting-ghost-towns-of-the-east.com/metaldetectinglaws.htmls

 

[mwbutcher]

I was wondering about this myself, do you guys know if there is a difference between metal detecting on a state rec area and a state gaming area? that DNR website is a little depressing. there is a huge state rec area (over 20,000 acres) near us that has a lot of old homesite foundations in the woods, and the only area allowed for detecting is a couple of parking lots, oh yipee it's a joke. ok for game hunting, but not relic hunting. any exceptions or loop holes known?

Is it listed under the DNR state park website or is it posted closed to detecting at the location? I can only find information relating to state parks and that is about it - the information on the parks system is pretty complete even though I think i stinks they have closed so many areas to the sport. What recreation area is it - if you don't mind me asking. I live in Midland County and we have numerous state game areas with no mention of them anywhere - hummm.

The law seems to be fairly silent about non-state park areas.

What about the beaches that are not on state park or state land. Are they open to mdting - I read about a high water mark property case bla bla and still cant figure that out either....but that is another story

Mark

 

[postalgriff]

I am referring to waterloo state rec area, and there are only a handful of small areas allowed to detecting, (parking lots and boat launches basically) here's a link to the DNR, just click on the county, then the state park area, then where it gives a list of activities it will usually have a link to a map just for detecting areas allowed.
http://www.michigandnr.com/parksandtrails/
also, here's a direct link to waterloo area so you can see what I'm talking about
http://www.michigandnr.com/publications/pdfs/RecreationCamping/metal-maps/waterloo.PDF

 

[mwbutcher]

I am referring to waterloo state rec area, and there are only a handful of small areas allowed to detecting, (parking lots and boat launches basically) here's a link to the DNR, just click on the county, then the state park area, then where it gives a list of activities it will usually have a link to a map just for detecting areas allowed.
http://www.michigandnr.com/parksandtrails/
also, here's a direct link to waterloo area so you can see what I'm talking about
http://www.michigandnr.com/publications/pdfs/RecreationCamping/metal-maps/waterloo.PDF

Thanks - I see what you mean. It really seems that the state goes out of its way to let you know where you can't detect. That would lead one to believe that if not posted otherwise or specifically prohibited by statute or local ordinance you should be able to detect on public/state owned and as long as you don't take artifacts - or go dig up the state capital - ha!!

We have got to have a lawyer on this board - anyone This is good discussion - I hope we stumble across a definitive answer some day soon..

Thanks - Mark

 

[mpostma]

Thanks - I see what you mean. It really seems that the state goes out of its way to let you know where you can't detect. That would lead one to believe that if not posted otherwise or specifically prohibited by statute or local ordinance you should be able to detect on public/state owned and as long as you don't take artifacts - or go dig up the state capital - ha!!

We have got to have a lawyer on this board - anyone This is good discussion - I hope we stumble across a definitive answer some day soon..

Thanks - Mark
[/quote]

Actually I think the only thing you can't dig up at the capital is a decent plan to move the state out of the current mess, or any kid of useful cooperation! Plenty of fossils there, but not too much of any value to most of the people in Michigan.
I've spent way too many hours of my life there, and sure wish I could get all the wasted ones back.

Metal Detecting is recognized by the state as a legitimate outdoor activity, and as such is allowed unless it is specifically prohibited.

Good luck,
Mark

 

[postalgriff]

Metal Detecting is recognized by the state as a legitimate outdoor activity, and as such is allowed unless it is specifically prohibited.

Good luck,
Mark

that pretty much sums it up, thanks Mark

 

[mwbutcher]

Thanks - I see what you mean. It really seems that the state goes out of its way to let you know where you can't detect. That would lead one to believe that if not posted otherwise or specifically prohibited by statute or local ordinance you should be able to detect on public/state owned and as long as you don't take artifacts - or go dig up the state capital - ha!!

We have got to have a lawyer on this board - anyone This is good discussion - I hope we stumble across a definitive answer some day soon..

Thanks - Mark

Actually I think the only thing you can't dig up at the capital is a decent plan to move the state out of the current mess, or any kid of useful cooperation! Plenty of fossils there, but not too much of any value to most of the people in Michigan.
I've spent way too many hours of my life there, and sure wish I could get all the wasted ones back.

Metal Detecting is recognized by the state as a legitimate outdoor activity, and as such is allowed unless it is specifically prohibited.

Good luck,
Mark
[/quote]

From Mark to Mark - thanks.....case closed enough of this....time to buy some fresh 9volts. The snow is starting to melt - yea.

Hope you all have a great week and coming weekend. Looks like it should be in the 40's and for MI that is a good start!

 

[BigZee]

Just remember, anything that is designated as a State Historic Site, is closed to metal detecting.

 

[mpostma]

Thanks Spooky!

"Common Sense" may be far less common than it used to be, but what you just described has been my experience.
If you are filling your holes and not trying to rob graves or hunt on a site that is being preserved and publisized then chances are nobody will bother you. If you are out there leaving a mess and/or looking guilty or sneaky you can expect to draw some of the wrong kind of attention, the kind we ALL pay for.

Good Luck,
Mark

 

[mwbutcher]

Metal Detecting is recognized by the state as a legitimate outdoor activity, and as such is allowed unless it is specifically prohibited.

This was in an email I received this morning as well..

Like I said, I have no reason to hunt state land anymore, so I forwarded this question a few days ago when I saw this to a friend who is a conservation officer for the state...

He replied that he has seen a few people MDing, and unless it is a "historic site", "native American site" or specifically prohibited area, common sense rules apply and HE has never seen a problem with it..

Now this is just one guy, but he has been doing it for 15 years or so, so I imagine he would have at least "heard something"...

He mentioned that he has seen a few with detectors, and he was always just curious as to what they found, and reminded them to not leave holes....

Thanks spooky - that is what I have been hearing too after with talking with law enforcement. I will keep checking for my own personal information but plan to hunt the state land open to hunting and avoid the conflict areas.

Thanks a bunch - good find.

Mark

 

[trusty]

Last year I found an old homestead on state owned land that was open to hunting. When I checked with the DNR office in Cadillac, I was told that I COULD NOT metal detect on that state owned land, except in the picnic area, the lake shore and the camp ground.

From what I see hear, you folks were told pretty much the opposite.

I think an email to my "Representative" is in order. Will let you know when/if he responds.

 

[SaginawIan]

If you ask too many questions they will clarify the "law" to our detriment, please trust me on this one.

One other thing to consider: The DNR officer requests charges, the prosecutor decides whether or not to prosecute and the judge determines guilt. Any DNR officer that clears the dust off of an archaic and ambiguous "anti-metal detecting law" and writes a harmless metal detecting hobbyist a misdemeanor ticket will get laughed at. He knows it, the prosectuor knows it, and when the judge stops laughing he will ask you for advice about metal detectors.


Ian

 

[mwbutcher]

Last year I found an old homestead on state owned land that was open to hunting. When I checked with the DNR office in Cadillac, I was told that I COULD NOT metal detect on that state owned land, except in the picnic area, the lake shore and the camp ground.

From what I see hear, you folks were told pretty much the opposite.

I think an email to my "Representative" is in order. Will let you know when/if he responds.

i think the problem you guys are running into here is this..

individual "areas" (Parks, etc. are controlled by their own administrators who make their own basic guidelines)

I think that the posted info and the info that a DNR Conversation Officer,(that I received) who works on all state land (NOT a "parks and recreation area" region) relates to NON "parks and recreation" land..

There is a difference between 'parks and recreation' and "state owned land" regulations, and that is where the confusion is coming in.

The info I was given was "wildlife and hunting areas and STATE forest" land..

I am pretty sure that EACH park (parks and recreation) has it's own set of rules....

You are exactly correct - parks and rec areas are controlled by managers and are separate from "State Land" open to hunting. State Land as long as you are not taking artifacts belonging to some aboriginal from back in the day you are good to go. I am guessing that there are enough of us out there we will find out shortly Seems like there should be a MDing lawyer here that could get to the bottom of it all ??

I for one am going to give it a whirl on State Land open to hunting and see what shakes out.

Mark

 

[craigv3]

This State land thing really bothers me too!! Griff and I have been doing alot of research and I dont understand why metal detecting is "not allowed". Everyone you talk to seems like "metal detecting" is some destructive activity that will harm State Land. Trust me, if there are thousands of people out there hunting year after year, then a few more in the off season wont hurt a thing. I believe we would be some of the only ones that would take trash with us, instead of leaving it behind like others do. Its more beneficial to allow it, then to just simply say no.

I know my prosecutors in my county and they will throw out, or plea solid criminal cases down every day. They dont have time to be dealing with a conservation loop hole like this....I would love to address this issue with the DNR and see why we cant swing our coils on the property that essientally belongs to us.....

Please pm me and let me know when we find the answer to our question...

Be safe and take care,
"Z"

 

[fistfulladirt]

Craig, I think it has something to do with the state archeologists, they can't stand us detectorists, and the fact that we may be removing important historical artifacts. ffd