Move boulders with gear that can be packed in.

[Tahoegold]

I have been thinking about what I will need to move boulders, or rocks with what I can carry in a pack. However, the pack also has other tools. Pans, (2) 2.5 gal. buckets, either a 24" Bazooka sniper or a Keene A51a fitted with Gold hog mats. A 6' sling. A small strap wratchet 900lb come along. 4 small metal pulleys. A 1" tiedown strap. 50' of 3/8" nylon braided rope. A Gad bar, a rock hammer, and assorted crevacing tools and a metal detector. Food and a gallon of water.
I am interested in Technique. I saw a technique where the strap was tightened around s boulder, then the come along went over the top to the far side. It pulled the boulder and rolled it. Of course, building a cobble ramp, digging under etc all can help. I saw a technique that uses a rope and a stick. Using a loop around a boulder to a tree. One uses the stick to "wind" the rope in the middle. Surpisingly, this method seemed to have the best torque ratio I've ever seen. I am asking for practical ways to use this equipment to leverage my equipment to move boulders in a stream. I also read the New 49rs piece on this. They recomended finding the gold line and making sure not to roll the boulder right into the gold. Well, I cant seem to find a thread on this here. Maybe there is one. Ok, so what can one do with this equipment? Thanks!

 

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[63bkpkr]

Depends on how "Big" your rocks are as to what you can/should use.

Here's moving some gravel with a solid set of tire chain and an 8000 lb capacity cable hoist from Harbor Freight. One can also add in snatch blocks BUT always protect the bark of any tree you use!

No matter what method you choose your backpack is going to be heavy with gear, I suspect making two trips in will keep you from overloading yourself as that leads to injury!


This pack was about 100 lbs, I was in good shape when I carried it in, I was wearing well fitting solid boots and I used a 6' long hiking staff to maintain my balance along the trail (a third leg is Always useful)..................63bkpkr

Note: the Rectangular blue recycle bin ~ 5 gallon capacity allows an A51 sluice to go all the way to its bottom without stressing the walls of the bucket (I bought it at Home Depot after I broke a typical Round 5 gallon bucket trying to rinse off the sluice while in the round bucket).

 

[Tahoegold]

Nice 63bkpkr! I like your idea! Never thought about tire chains! However, I have this equipment because of precisely what you say about loads. I'm an experienced packer. I've been doing it for years. I've been 70 miles solo. 25 miles is cake walk for me. Mostly due to proper load and food, water. These tools are what I will have. I see it as having something better than my hands! Lol. But, with rope, pullys and a small winch, I can bring quite a bit of pressure to bear on a rock. I am using this stormy weather to research. I've read some of your posts. You seem to be a very capable back country packer yourself! Thanks for your input. It may be that I incprporate tire chains! I'm thinking with my gear a 6' cargo strap may be all I am able to carry for now. I don't want to make 2 trips so I can travel further on one trip. Thanks and would like to hear more of your experiences!

 

[Bonaro]

Here is a boulder winch I made. This is a early version, I have since improved the design

 

[ratled]

Dang bkpkr I thought I was the only one still using tire chains. Shoot now a days I have to explain the reason they are called chains is back in the olden days tire chains were made with actual chains.

I like to bolt a set together with a little bit of added chain to get a better bite on the rock and be able to take a large rock... though with a small come a long I'm not sure if it's needed. My rule of thumb is if that set can get around a rock it can handle it. Just watch getting it wedged somehow. I use 1" tube webbing fished through to make a set of handy straps.

ratled

 

[RTR]

A couple pounds of "tannerite" will do the trick.

 

[Reed Lukens]

Or you could just take an axe and make a fulcrum... Rock demolition is easy, but... the gear to move them in the deep woods is too much to carry in one load.... If you have rocks in mind already, just take what you need, rope and a pulley system. I have a light weight 6 pully system, 3 on top, 3 on bottom that rolls them all right out. I just use rope to roll but I did have a 3/16" cable mushroom net that we packed in for a while, but the 3/8" lasts many seasons if used wisely. Here's how we make a sling, expand on it for your packing, make it smaller, etc.

 

[Arachnofreak]

Nice 63bkpkr, I really like the idea of packing in chains, 100 pounds seems like a lot to carry on a long hike though. I always just dig one side down and use a breaker bar to push the rock in the hole. But I do like the tire chains idea for when that is not possible.

Charlie

 

[rockbar]

Good techinique there A-freak to use gravity to your advantage. Lots of good ideas in this thread for what works.
Sometimes boulders just need to be carefully tilted up inside your work hole so you can mine under them... then barred back in the hole when you're through. If this makes you nervous, then don't do it because it does add a little risk to things.
I have always just used flat tow straps for strapping up boulders. I try to go around a boulder a couple times, then back through the loop. A strap gives you a single pull point, which allows you to roll boulders before trying to drag them. This can get you some quick results in movement, but you usually have to re-strap once the boulder has rolled. I have a few straps handy as they can get chewed up and sometimes the boulder rolls to where you can't immediately free the strap you just used. Tow straps are fairly light compared to chain. On a dead drag, the rockbar is your friend to help nudge along.
I have a griphoist I bought used from an old timer years ago. They are fantastic come-along type tools, but non-spooling and pull quickly.

 

[MadMarshall]

Maybe consider more primitive methods.. Use fire to breaks rocks (spalling)that are to difficult to move. Can be time consuming but honestly better then bringing in a whole lot a crap that may not even be used... Unless u are familiar with the area and already scouted it out for pulling boulder with chains and such.. Don't know how many times I hiked in the whole kit of crap just to hike it out and it never get used..

 

[Arachnofreak]

Maybe consider more primitive methods.. Use fire to breaks rocks (spalling)that are to difficult to move. Can be time consuming but honestly better then bringing in a whole lot a crap that may not even be used... Unless u are familiar with the area and already scouted it out for pulling boulder with chains and such.. Don't know how many times I hiked in the whole kit of crap just to hike it out and it never get used..

Been there done that lol

Charlie

 

[N-Lionberger]

Here is a boulder winch I made. This is a early version, I have since improved the design

Nice, are you running that off a battery?

 

[Tahoegold]

GREAT thread guys. Thanks for sharing some practical ideas. I don't mind hearing about all the different kinds of gear even if I can't pack it. The gear you guys are inventing is great! I can use principals that some of this stuff uses. I can make a strap net, dig out one side and some form of pull. I am hoping to get to a rock of a size that I can handle in a short period of time, like maybe a half hr. And check under with a metal detector, and test pan. This is a way to test and move. I will drive 2hrs each way and hike 1 day. I want to do more than dig gravel and sample. I know my equipment will limit the size of the rock I can move. My thoughs are, If I can move a rock that can't be moved by hand, then I may have better odds on the ground under that rock. Keep the ideas coming. If you know some small scale technique that leverages my gear that would be great. I do like the big gear. It may be that one day I will need something bigger. Thanks again all of you! I have this handy little strap winch. Add a couple pulleys and I could get some decent force!

 

[63bkpkr]

Hi There Tahoegold,
Yes, anything is better than hands only and that is everyone’s starting point, hands only. The next step is leverage, I carry a ~ 14” Eastwing Gad Prybar and it is amazing what one can do with that tool! It is limited to what can be done with it though it is small enough to protect the user, that is, a person can literally only do so much with it. I would not even consider a 3’ lever and I’ve damaged myself with a 4’ lever so I’d have to say a 6’ lever bar would be the ultimate however, that unit is really a heavy Awkward tool to carry down a mountain and most likely it would stay down there forever.

Oh yes, where I go is way out back of the back country, way down a mountain side so getting in and out is always serious business and being in shape, wearing a Backpack that fits and handles heavy loads, having good supportive socks and boots, being in top physical condition and using a hiking staff (the two hiking poles are not strong enough IMHO) are all so important to make the trip as safe as possible and to be able to get out after one has gotten in. Some parts of the trail’s I take are very narrow with sizeable drop-offs though even a 4’ drop with a heavy pack is going to “damage a person”! I’ve hiked out with an 85 lb pack ON a Broken Leg with a badly sprained ankle (same leg) and take my word on it, that was no fun! Having some heavy duty pain killers in my first aid kit was meant for times like that! If a person can not take care of themselves out there then stay home. I also carry a SPOT Messenger, it has saved my life once so I always carry it!!!!!!

Next is mechanical means like leverage from the mechanical advantage of a pulley system which you use. The pulley system is only useful IF one can hold onto the boulder being moved. Holding onto the boulder requires at least two things physical contact by wrapping around the boulder and staying in place as the boulder moves/rolls/teeters etc. Truckers Straps are more adjustable to the size of the boulder than tire chains, Reed’s boulder net has a lot going for it as it is quite adjustable while tire chains are limited in size though Ratled’s linking a set together along their width makes a lot of sense. Steel chains are heavy, anything made from steel is heavy but steel does not shred like pull straps will. I was way up a mountain working in a stream bed moving boulders with a strap (not a trucker size strap) and as the boulder moved, it lay right over on that strap and cut half way through the fabric, I was not pleased. That’s when I switched to tire chains. (the components for Reed's boulder net are expensive but it becomes a Class outfit when completed. The swagging tool that I've seen is over a $100 dollars then the cost of the swages and the cable and stuff) Then again why are we doing this - to make it easier/safer to find gold.

On that shredded strap adventure I was using a 2000 lb rated Harbor Freight cable hoist and the darn thing just fell apart, all sorts of parts bent and failed. I then purchased the 8,000 lb capacity unit and have been a happy camper ever since. I also purchased a length of ~1/4” cable with slip & grab hooks on it. The cable is cumbersome and one must be carful to not kink the cable but it works. The attachment to the hoist is accomplished with a 4’ length of chain as IF the cable snaps the chain just drops which can help to stop the cable from whipping around and slapping a person up side of the head. Again, when using any tree as an anchor point, protect the tree from being damaged with carpet, burlap or sticks. Snatch blocks are a cool add on for hoist/winch efforts, I bought mine at Tractor Supply store. They allow one to change a pull angle, like one can turn corners with a snatch block. Oh they are heavy. (Either cable hoist is only good for short pulls then you need to hold the load, unhook the hoist and shorten the length of the fixed cable, reset the hoist and go again)

I’ve a duffle bag I keep my hoisting gear in and the whole thing weighs about 85 lbs. I strap it to a bare packframe (the bears Shredded the pack bag) and away I go with it though this means a trip back up and down the mountain. Once I hauled my 2’ sluice unit, wet suit, gasoline and the “whole catastrophe” (Fiddler on the Roof) along with all my camping equipment around in the Sierras, took three trips in and three trips out. A lot of that hauling was without trails so I was cutting trail while hauling. I was younger and stronger then and possibly a lot less knowledgeable (smarter) though I’m not much better about those things now!

It would be nice to have feather weight equipment to bring along but then what use would it be. What we do out there is Work and at times darned hard work. The equipment we count on to get the job done must be reliable as the boulder alone is heavy and when one adds the extra pull needed to move the rocks that are holding the boulder in place, it just takes a lot of energy to do the job without hurting the self. Being able to drive up somewhat close to “the Job Site” is nice but how often does one have that option? (lucky dog)

Tahoe, where did you purchase your strap winch from?

It amounts to a choice in equipment and techniques which is what you asked about Tahoegold and these are just my thoughts and I hope they help………….63bkpkr

{Note: a metal detector can also be used to locate a spot on the shore that has no signal. A bucket of gravel can be dumped on the spot, the metal detector is used to check for a signal, if no signal there is no need to work that gravel. Test to confirm my statement! but I've done this and it does work}

Of course if one has a GGT with them, heck throw it all in there!!!!!! Oh wait, that's even more stuff to haul in and more trips to make, man I'm gonna be tired the first three days of the next trip.

 

[Bonaro]

Nice, are you running that off a battery?

Yep, I use a deep cycle and it runs the winch for 2 days of rocks pulling. Started out using lawn mower battery but it was just too small.

 

[Bejay]

One always needs to be aware of cable tension snap rebound. The cable is deadly when and if it snaps loose. One can take that rebound snap whip action away by simply draping cloth things over the tensioned cable. blankets, jackets, anything of that nature works. Be safe!

Bejay

 

[arizau]

One always needs to be aware of cable tension snap rebound. The cable is deadly when and if it snaps loose. One can take that rebound snap whip action away by simply draping cloth things over the tensioned cable. blankets, jackets, anything of that nature works. Be safe!

Bejay

Safety First! Tension rebound was the first thing that came to my mind particularly if there is a significant distance involved.

 

[Tahoegold]

63bkpkr, I got this from Harbor Freight. I have a Gad bar as well. Not bringing a big ole bar, I'll probably find one discarded there anway! I like the battery winch. Maybe if I had more time and a pack mule! Since I'm really on a prospecting mission rather than mining, I want to cover ground and do some exploring and sample spots. Run light but have some leverage. I can bring the big stuff once I find a spot that's worth it. I'm getting older wiser, lol. I figure I can get away from the weekend crowd areas and get under some rocks, and find a good spot without lugging too much. The strap winch is light and can work pretty well. I'm not moving stuff out of the river. I'm just trying to get at the dirt under it to sample. So, tipping the rock over works for me. This one technique of using a tiedown strap around a rock then the strap winch should be a light weight effective technique. I could dig under the side and sample that then put the rock in the hole. Well, that's my best way I can come up with as of now...

 

[Tahoegold]

Check out this come along the Deuer manufacturing, Pack Mule. It is real small, I have been trying to find exactly this size come along. Looks like Northern Tools carries it for the best price of $50. Kinda pricy, but it's smaller than anything else. I am going to get this as it has a longer more sturdy handle, so more leverage and a feature that lets the load back down one click at a time. And it's only 6lbs. I have some uses for something like this. The strap has a less sturdy handle. Heck, I could pack both at this weight!

 

[Tahoegold]

Who knows this one? If I attach a line to 2 boulders, one big and the one I want to move, then I pull from the middle at a 90 degree like a "T", will this reduce the pulling force needed like a pulley reduction?