Move boulders with gear that can be packed in.

[Tahoegold]

I have been thinking about what I will need to move boulders, or rocks with what I can carry in a pack. However, the pack also has other tools. Pans, (2) 2.5 gal. buckets, either a 24" Bazooka sniper or a Keene A51a fitted with Gold hog mats. A 6' sling. A small strap wratchet 900lb come along. 4 small metal pulleys. A 1" tiedown strap. 50' of 3/8" nylon braided rope. A Gad bar, a rock hammer, and assorted crevacing tools and a metal detector. Food and a gallon of water.
I am interested in Technique. I saw a technique where the strap was tightened around s boulder, then the come along went over the top to the far side. It pulled the boulder and rolled it. Of course, building a cobble ramp, digging under etc all can help. I saw a technique that uses a rope and a stick. Using a loop around a boulder to a tree. One uses the stick to "wind" the rope in the middle. Surpisingly, this method seemed to have the best torque ratio I've ever seen. I am asking for practical ways to use this equipment to leverage my equipment to move boulders in a stream. I also read the New 49rs piece on this. They recomended finding the gold line and making sure not to roll the boulder right into the gold. Well, I cant seem to find a thread on this here. Maybe there is one. Ok, so what can one do with this equipment? Thanks!

 

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[minerrick]

So far, Rick I haven't come across a rock on my claim that couldn't be moved with bars. I'm not saying that some day I may need to blast one out of the way, but for now it's not the case. The point of the thread is light weight and packable. My opinion is this is not, at least until you know for sure. Not even you pack all that in until you have tested and sampled and are reasonably sure there will be a payout at the end of the day.
True, you are not obligated to show your gold. I'm not interested in where you choose to mine, but when you tout the product as packable then tell your stories, you could back them up and make them more believable with a money shot. You do whatever you choose. I'll do what I do. If I ever have a need to remove a boulder that can't be rolled, I won't rule out Sierra blaster or some other method. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Mike thank you for being sensible. I don't know if it is your writing style or just the written form, but from square one, it appears like you were attacking me for something you know nothing about. I still don't get why you think it is not packable. I am 62 years old, and when I usually pack into my claim I am carrying a 50 lb pack. I am not prospecting an unknown canyon, I am hiking into my claim... my pack contains drill steel, winch attachment points, Titen bolts food and any repair items we need for that period of time we are working. When I am prospecting, I travel very light, with just a pan, a rock hammer and some scratcher tools, as I never know what sort of impossible situation I will find myself in. The point of this paragraph is when I decide to pack in a one head sierra blaster, the weight is negligible. The drill weighs a little but not nearly as much as a 6 foot long wrecking bar. If I wanted to, I COULD pack in a SB when prospecting, but for the previously mentioned reason, I don't like bringing any more weight than I have to in case I find myself hanging off a cliff or something.

 

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[mikep691]

Exactly Mikep691, the SB can be brought in by one guy if that bridge is there to cross. The weight is doable. At that point, if there's pay, one guy could "stash" equipment and make a couple trips solo. Thereby keeping all the gold a secret. And getting it all there by themselves and having the whole 6 pack of beer to boot. The aluminum heads and electronics are totally packable. The rock could be pulverized to be hand moveable. No need for moving equipment to be packed in. This would make sense in a decidedly payable spot. And this is my point. Lets talk about equipment for payable spots. This would further my knowledge on how to get'er done. That's my hope. Info on what exactly is possible solo. Yeah, I started on just prospecting. But, just look at the possibilities now put forth for the solo miner in this thread. I like it! I never really knew what to do once I actually FOUND gold. But, now I have some pretty fine options and can plan a lot better for when that happens. AND, it's getting me motivated! Bring on the stories of how it's done guys! Thank you! TG

There is one more "packable" option not mentioned so far. I'll have to look up the name of this stuff, but could be an option for the "more than a day" trips. They used it on Gold Rush couple weeks ago to break a boulder in Colorado. You still have to drill holes, but if you have the time, it's drill, mix, pour into holes, drink beer, then next day big rock is smaller and movable.

 

[Assembler]

Very kind words Tahoegold, thanks!

After looking at the weight of stuff you were carrying in thought would share my experiences through the years. Wish knew this stuff when was 20. Another two things that does not relate to boulder moving but wish knew back then in regards to dredging is knowing how deep bedrock is before you start, systematic sampling and the bottom is likely good if the top is.

Will start with sampling, if you have a stream claim and quickly grid say in 50 foot corners and count colors and record in a notebook first before mining you will pick up the paystreak and unexpected deposits. Then you start with the very best place in the claim. The normal method is guessing and dredging/sluicing bad ground and moving and moving wasting time.

If a big operation is planned say going thru maybe 10 feet of gravel to bottom, knowing bottom depth is crucial, it may be 30 feet not 10 feet. There are ways to tell, expensive but in a way cheaper is to rent a refraction seismograph and it will tell you how deep. And on hillsides it can pick up old channels. Know of two dredgers that spent 6 months going down 27 feet through cemented gravel and never hit bottom. Bob Vance asked me to do it on section of his claim and told him 33 feet so he avoided that area. I no longer have access to a seismograph and am busy with other things but for these situations worth looking at. BTW shallow bedrock is better than deep generally, as much more gold travels over a shallow bedrock section, deep bedrock maybe once in a thousand years, shallow maybe every 5 years. This is contrary to most thinking.

And lastly why dredge thru barren garvel, pick a place with gold on top, that way you get paid to dredge and IMHO the bottom should and tends to be good, it is a drop area for gold. I know Tahoegold you are not dredging there, but there may be some value in this.

Also for a book Chris Ralph's "Fistfulls of Gold" is best have ever read, can not praise it enough. Worth time to read.

Cheers

Funny thing is this grid system of holes is also how one can prospect a large boulder as well looking for values in each hole just on a smaller scale. Yes this is not dredging however the tactic is the same.

 

[Tahoegold]

Sierra blaster is a series of blasting caps, not dynomite, and it requires drilled holes in the boulder of choice and a battery to set off the charges. So, lets pack in a drill, power for that drill, battery, caps and all for the SB. ONE PERSON, not a team of people. I'm not convinced this is the "weight saving " "Gitterdone" method for Joe the plumber. This who we really are talking about. Rick, since you no longer prospect, and only go where you say you know the "really big gold" is, I can only say BULL But thanks for the input.

Hey Mikep691, the break down on weight of a single head system along with the weight of food water and what ever else can fit in the pack seems to come in under 50lbs. In my world, thats totally doable. There would be no need for pry bars or winches. Also, the price is not of concern actually. Price is the cost of doing business. If the decision is made to bring in a SB, then the premise is there's gold there to pay for the expense of the system. After all, that's the goal, find gold that pays. Sure, at the stage where I am, hiking in to prospect, a SB system would be out of the question. Once I can determine that I have a high probability of gold being under a boulder, the SB would be packable and at that time should only be purchased if the gold recovered would more than pay off the system. Joe plumber should never buy one unless he wants to be Joe miner. I wouldn't mind being Joe miner. Just sayin'

 

[DredgerDana]

Hi Assembler, I see you hardrocker. The gold pan is an amazingly long lived device, thousands of years I believe. No moving parts and works like a charm. I am an inventor and maybe a year from now will have a partial replacement, especially for geologists doing exploration work and the more serious prospectors.

On hardrock/pocket gold have a story. A retired deputy maybe 80 in Butte County called Kohler let me on his property for a survey. In 1930s think he said was in a mine there and a big earthquake hit and it faulted 2 feet in his tunnel! talk about scary, partially blocked the tunnel. He then showed me about 10 oz of gold bars he poured. He got them pocket hunting, following float up hillsides to source picking out small pockets and hand crushing. I was impressed, and told noone until he passed away as he lived in a log cabin with his wife with wood stove and pelton wheel for juice. Very cool guy. Have you ever found hard rock pockets?

 

[Assembler]

Very kind words Tahoegold, thanks!

After looking at the weight of stuff you were carrying in thought would share my experiences through the years. Wish knew this stuff when was 20. Another two things that does not relate to boulder moving but wish knew back then in regards to dredging is knowing how deep bedrock is before you start, systematic sampling and the bottom is likely good if the top is.

Will start with sampling, if you have a stream claim and quickly grid say in 50 foot corners and count colors and record in a notebook first before mining you will pick up the paystreak and unexpected deposits. Then you start with the very best place in the claim. The normal method is guessing and dredging/sluicing bad ground and moving and moving wasting time.

If a big operation is planned say going thru maybe 10 feet of gravel to bottom, knowing bottom depth is crucial, it may be 30 feet not 10 feet. There are ways to tell, expensive but in a way cheaper is to rent a refraction seismograph and it will tell you how deep. And on hillsides it can pick up old channels. Know of two dredgers that spent 6 months going down 27 feet through cemented gravel and never hit bottom. Bob Vance asked me to do it on section of his claim and told him 33 feet so he avoided that area. I no longer have access to a seismograph and am busy with other things but for these situations worth looking at. BTW shallow bedrock is better than deep generally, as much more gold travels over a shallow bedrock section, deep bedrock maybe once in a thousand years, shallow maybe every 5 years. This is contrary to most thinking.

And lastly why dredge thru barren garvel, pick a place with gold on top, that way you get paid to dredge and IMHO the bottom should and tends to be good, it is a drop area for gold. I know Tahoegold you are not dredging there, but there may be some value in this.

Also for a book Chris Ralph's "Fistfulls of Gold" is best have ever read, can not praise it enough. Worth time to read.

Cheers

Left the web page and came back to find out that this post was not made.....OOPs for the double post.

DredgerDana asked:

On hardrock/pocket gold have a story. A retired deputy maybe 80 in Butte County called Kohler let me on his property for a survey. In 1930s think he said was in a mine there and a big earthquake hit and it faulted 2 feet in his tunnel! talk about scary, partially blocked the tunnel. He then showed me about 10 oz of gold bars he poured. He got them pocket hunting, following float up hillsides to source picking out small pockets and hand crushing. I was impressed, and told noone until he passed away as he lived in a log cabin with his wife with wood stove and pelton wheel for juice. Very cool guy. Have you ever found hard rock pockets?

Yes. Long story short did little 'Hard rocking' until methods of crushing and panning where improved first. Learned some things from this one's older family member and Roy Regall (don't remember the spelling of last name) the consultant to Garret Electronics when he lived in Idaho. At the time stayed in a number of cabins that had pelton wheels for electric power. There are a lot of cool people living off the grid.

 

[Tahoegold]

There is one more "packable" option not mentioned so far. I'll have to look up the name of this stuff, but could be an option for the "more than a day" trips. They used it on Gold Rush couple weeks ago to break a boulder in Colorado. You still have to drill holes, but if you have the time, it's drill, mix, pour into holes, drink beer, then next day big rock is smaller and movable.

Mikep691, We used to sell that stuff at the United Rentals store I worked in. It's Betonomite. Pronounced like dynamite. It really works great. However, it takes a minimum 3/4 inch hole. You can only fill 1/3 of the hole. It's a good tool. I like the SB for it's speed and expense on drill bits. That Betonomite was $52 a bag. The SB is a one time expense except for the re occuring cost of blast caps. For the guy with a claim and lots of rock to move, AND GOLD, the SB would make sense over the expanding concrete, which is heavy, that is what Betonomite is.

 

[mikep691]

Hey Mikep691, the break down on weight of a single head system along with the weight of food water and what ever else can fit in the pack seems to come in under 50lbs. In my world, thats totally doable. There would be no need for pry bars or winches. Also, the price is not of concern actually. Price is the cost of doing business. If the decision is made to bring in a SB, then the premise is there's gold there to pay for the expense of the system. After all, that's the goal, find gold that pays. Sure, at the stage where I am, hiking in to prospect, a SB system would be out of the question. Once I can determine that I have a high probability of gold being under a boulder, the SB would be packable and at that time should only be purchased if the gold recovered would more than pay off the system. Joe plumber should never buy one unless he wants to be Joe miner. I wouldn't mind being Joe miner. Just sayin'

This has been my point since Rick first posted about the SB. I'm not, and have never been against the idea of using the SB. It's just not feasible to take in on an exploratory mission. That would be putting the cart before the horse (or mule). And as Rick finally posted, even HE packs very light for prospecting trips. There is a time and place for the SB but first trip to unknown territory is neither. Yes I'd much rather have a 3' rock bar to help move 50-100 pound rocks out of way on that first trip. Once the site "pans out" then it's time to think bigger.

 

[mikep691]

Mikep691, We used to sell that stuff at the United Rentals store I worked in. It's Betonomite. Pronounced like dynamite. It really works great. However, it takes a minimum 3/4 inch hole. You can only fill 1/3 of the hole. It's a good tool. I like the SB for it's speed and expense on drill bits. That Betonomite was $52 a bag. The SB is a one time expense except for the re occuring cost of blast caps. For the guy with a claim and lots of rock to move, AND GOLD, the SB would make sense over the expanding concrete, which is heavy, that is what Betonomite is.

Dexpan is the stuff I was referring to. Likely the same thing as what you sold

 

[minerrick]

is OK but the head and arm does get clogged with dirt and it takes work to free up the head

Reed, you may want to clarify this statement.... What I think Reed means is usually after the charge goes off, sometimes the head is stuck in the hole where the detonation occurred. Most of the time, the rock is shattered and pieces are several inches from each other (there is no "flyrock")- but in some instances, the head is still in a hole and you have to grab it and pull and twist it out. No damage actually occurs to the head, it just takes a few seconds of twisting to release it from the rock. Another minor issue is there is a groove where the wire runs down the rod, and after a few blasts rock dust gets stuck in the groove, and you have to use a small screwdriver or tool to clean the grove.... other than that, its pretty much drill and crack rocks- nonstop.

 

[Assembler]

This has been my point since Rick first posted about the SB. I'm not, and have never been against the idea of using the SB. It's just not feasible to take in on an exploratory mission. That would be putting the cart before the horse (or mule). And as Rick finally posted, even HE packs very light for prospecting trips. There is a time and place for the SB but first trip to unknown territory is neither. Yes I'd much rather have a 3' rock bar to help move 50-100 pound rocks out of way on that first trip. Once the site "pans out" then it's time to think bigger.

This is talking about more the size of a given operation for the day. If one knows there is a couple of ozs. of values there may choose a bigger stick or tools. Best to find the better numbers of colors first before bringing in a bigger stick or tools.
Some times one can buy a used bigger tool and use it for a time and then sell it and not loose a penny.

 

[minerrick]

Dexpan is the stuff I was referring to

I packed a bag of Dexpan into my claim once. It was extremely heavy, I needed a Pionjar (cobra combi) to drill a hole big enough and you mix it up, pour it in and ......... wait 24 hours to see if it breaks your rock or not. I like instant gratification. There is nothing easy about dexpan on your back.

 

[mikep691]

Mikep691, We used to sell that stuff at the United Rentals store I worked in. It's Betonomite. Pronounced like dynamite. It really works great. However, it takes a minimum 3/4 inch hole. You can only fill 1/3 of the hole. It's a good tool. I like the SB for it's speed and expense on drill bits. That Betonomite was $52 a bag. The SB is a one time expense except for the re occuring cost of blast caps. For the guy with a claim and lots of rock to move, AND GOLD, the SB would make sense over the expanding concrete, which is heavy, that is what Betonomite is.

Dexpan is the stuff I was referring to. Likely the same thing as what you sold

 

[Assembler]

I packed a bag of Dexpan into my claim once. It was extremely heavy, I needed a Pionjar (cobra combi) to drill a hole big enough and you mix it up, pour it in and ......... wait 24 hours to see if it breaks your rock or not. I like instant gratification. There is nothing easy about dexpan on your back.

This sounds like the 'Hard' part of "Hard rocking"......LOL. Not for everyone that is for sure.

 

[mikep691]

I packed a bag of Dexpan into my claim once. It was extremely heavy, I needed a Pionjar (cobra combi) to drill a hole big enough and you mix it up, pour it in and ......... wait 24 hours to see if it breaks your rock or not. I like instant gratification. There is nothing easy about dexpan on your back.

Point taken. As you did, Just throwing out another option. And again, it's not something I would even consider on a prospecting trip to unknown territory.

 

[mikep691]

Reed, you may want to clarify this statement.... What I think Reed means is usually after the charge goes off, sometimes the head is stuck in the hole where the detonation occurred. Most of the time, the rock is shattered and pieces are several inches from each other (there is no "flyrock")- but in some instances, the head is still in a hole and you have to grab it and pull and twist it out. No damage actually occurs to the head, it just takes a few seconds of twisting to release it from the rock. Another minor issue is there is a groove where the wire runs down the rod, and after a few blasts rock dust gets stuck in the groove, and you have to use a small screwdriver or tool to clean the grove.... other than that, its pretty much drill and crack rocks- nonstop.

Pretty sure he was referring to the bar TG has purchased

 

[gold tramp]

I packed a bag of Dexpan into my claim once. It was extremely heavy, I needed a Pionjar (cobra combi) to drill a hole big enough and you mix it up, pour it in and ......... wait 24 hours to see if it breaks your rock or not. I like instant gratification. There is nothing easy about dexpan on your back.

How much dexpan you have to use? Or should i say how big was the rock you broke haulin in a punjar you must of been breakin boulders the size of cars.

Im pretty sure if you used dexpan you know its powerfull tool.
I never used the blaster. looks like. It could work good on fractured rock.

Would have to see it first hand in some solid rock. Only if someone else flips tab.


i use dexpan for breakin fresh andesite.diorite in the ground it works like a champ for me.
I would like to see if the blaster would put a dent in the fresh andesite.
Just my 2 cents

 

[DredgerDana]

How much dexpan you have to use? Or should i say how big was the rock you broke haulin in a punjar you must of been breakin boulders the size of cars.

Im pretty sure if you used dexpan you know its powerfull tool.
I never used the blaster. looks like. It could work good on fractured rock.

Would have to see it first hand in some solid rock. Only if someone else flips tab.


i use dexpan for breakin fresh andesite.diorite in the ground it works like a champ for me.
I would like to see if the blaster would put a dent in the fresh andesite.
Just my 2 cents

Hi Goldtramp, small blasting actually works best on unfractured rocks, better containment and gas seal. Fractured rocks break fine as weaker, the problem rocks are bedrock that is porous, such as decomposed shale. They are like an air filter on car, air breathes right thru them so pressure cascade (up to 90,000 psi) gets short circuited.

Boulders almost always work as they are hard or would not be boulders. The soft bedrock turns into mud. The easiest to break are things like strong andesite and slate that is silica infused (common in gold areas). It is shocking just how big of such boulders can be split. The first boulder in Reed's video looked solid (silica infused slate) but did have weakness planes that showed up during blast, which is common.

A chevron folded metamorphic rock has good containment but are very strong as mineral crystals have fused together in 2nd melting. In that case if violence fails use more violence, add a booster charge.

There are plenty of YouTubes out there where you can watch various rock types being split.

Cheers

 

[Reed Lukens]

Dexpan is the stuff I was referring to. Likely the same thing as what you sold

We tried EcoBust before the Sierra Blaster came out... No comparrison... It needed a 1-1/2" hole drilled, then it broke 2 days later. The small charge of the Blaster needs a small hole that takes maybe a minute to drill. The bigger the hole needed, the longer it takes. Some of these holes were 30+ minutes... Yuk, never again!

 

[Tahoegold]

Ok, great to see all this new stuff guys! Thx! I went to Home Depot, Wally World and Tractor Supply. Love tractor Supply. They had a strap puller, 1000 lb capacity for $39. They also had some pullys for 1/2 inch rope which I also have and am leaning toward that. It's nylon solid braid. I'm looking at all this gear and checking the weight vs effective use. Man, the pully and the winches are just weighty compared to using a lever, strap and bar. I'm thinking, use the pry bar 90% of the time right? Very few times will I need the big pulling equipment. (I'm sampeling and off to another spot right?) So, I can use my bar as a post and a branch or my Gad bar as a lever for a windlass winch. If I forgo the puller and pullys, I can carry thicker rope, add a 6' strap/sling. A 15' tiedown, a large locking D ring to use as a pully to double the pull strength and I have a strong kit I believe that will do lots of work for less weight. The tiedown can be useful to cinch around a rock. The cargo strap could be held in place a little better with that. The D ring can go on the rock. The rope to an anchor point, through the D ring to the windlass winch, (which also has an anchor point.) This would be the best case scenario. There's also the use of 2 loops in a single line and use the bar in the loops like the tripod video only to drag the rock. Plus the one way that ties the rope low on the bar and one drags the stone. And theres the single line and pulling at a 90deg from the middle...All in all, I think for a quick way to move something bigger than I can move by hand and is light weight, this may be the lightest and quickest leverage I can put in a pack. I probably won't use it as much as my shovel and pan, so it's best to keep this light for the first trip. What are your thoughts on this? I think for prospecting, this puts a lot of power into a light pack. I'm always ready to improve if there's a better way. That 8' 1000lb strap winch was pretty light. But the handle was short. Maybe the leverage is in the small cylinder of the winch. More and thicker rope seemed to be a better trade off.