my first Eagle Breast Plate before and after electrolysis

[alderan33]

I found this awhile back near an old Fort. Needless to say, I almost peed my pants.

Pic 1: Right out of the ground.
Pic 2: After electrolysis
Pic 3: After cleaning

Thanks for looking. HH

 

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[BosnMate]

I wouldn't donate anything to a museum. I've done so in the past, and those things disappeared, and my mother lent a family hair wreath to a museum, and they now say they own it, even though it's stored in the basement, so they say, who knows, it might be gone. The basement flooded one time, so there is also a chance that it was ruined. If you don't want an item, donating it to a museum does not guarantee that they will display it, or that they will even keep it, and plenty of times the stuff ends up in personal collections, or stored away never to see the light of day.

 

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[Valley Ranger]

I'd be careful donating as well. Once you do, they can do whatever they want with it. You may, however, put it on "indefinite" loan with a museum and they can display and/or study it, but you retain ownership.

Very nice find!

 

[Gunrunner61]

Great find......the cleaning? to each his own! HH

 

[shanegalang]

Awesome find!!! Did you entertain the idea of another methood of cleaning? HH Shane

 

[BuckleBoy]

This is a sad situation. I can only imagine that this cleaning method was done out of a lack of education about cleaning methods. The plate looked like it wouldve been a beautiful find with great patina from the "before" photos. The most unfortunate thing is that all it would've taken was a PM to ANY of the guys on the forum who regularly find CW relics to ask about cleaning.

To the folks that say "I dug it, and I can do what I want to with it!", I have this to offer. Metal detecting bears a responsibility. That responsibility is twofold. First, it is of Education. And second, it is of Preservation. Folks who don't know what the items are that they dig often toss valuable relics away. Since I have been on the forum I have heard confessions from members about valuable CW relics thrown away, including one guy who threw a beatiful eagle breatplate like yours in the trash because he thought it was junk. Colonial cufflinks, tent rope tighteners, Shell fragments, knapsack hooks, military buttons, the list goes on. How many of those folks who threw away their greatest finds would come back with the retort "I dug it, and I can throw it in the trash if I want too!"?

On the preservation side, we owe it to ourselves (for the Quality and Value of our display cases), and our shared history to preserve what we find so that future generations can enjoy it--and so it has the best resale value (someday) that it possibly can. If a person doesn't respect the relics they dig enough to be interested in Both education and preservation, then they should perhaps stick to digging clad coins out of parks and beaches.

This is an opportunity for you, and we've all made mistakes like that. Embrace the opportunity, and enjoy your great find. It is wonderful that you are interested in donating to a museum. Most local museums, unlike what the folks on here would have you believe, genuinely are interested in displaying great finds for people to enjoy. Just ask my mentor in Virginia, who has had a significant part of his Civil War collection on PERMANENT display in a small local museum for a decade for all to enjoy. He started digging in the 60's so that gives you an idea of the Size of the collection.

Best Wishes,

Buckleboy

 

[bearbqd]

Well said Buckleboy. He could still rebury it for a few months in his yard and get some patina back.

 

[VOL1266-X]

I agree with BB's last reply 100%. HH, Quindy.

 

[BuckleBoy]

Well said Buckleboy. He could still rebury it for a few months in his yard and get some patina back.

Absolutely. All is not lost by far. He could even have Roland or someone restore the patina on the piece.

 

[Johnny Ringo Silver]

This is a sad situation. I can only imagine that this cleaning method was done out of a lack of education about cleaning methods. The plate looked like it wouldve been a beautiful find with great patina from the "before" photos. The most unfortunate thing is that all it would've taken was a PM to ANY of the guys on the forum who regularly find CW relics to ask about cleaning.

To the folks that say "I dug it, and I can do what I want to with it!", I have this to offer. Metal detecting bears a responsibility. That responsibility is twofold. First, it is of Education. And second, it is of Preservation. Folks who don't know what the items are that they dig often toss valuable relics away. Since I have been on the forum I have heard confessions from members about valuable CW relics thrown away, including one guy who threw a beatiful eagle breatplate like yours in the trash because he thought it was junk. Colonial cufflinks, tent rope tighteners, Shell fragments, knapsack hooks, military buttons, the list goes on. How many of those folks who threw away their greatest finds would come back with the retort "I dug it, and I can throw it in the trash if I want too!"?

On the preservation side, we owe it to ourselves (for the Quality and Value of our display cases), and our shared history to preserve what we find so that future generations can enjoy it--and so it has the best resale value (someday) that it possibly can. If a person doesn't respect the relics they dig enough to be interested in Both education and preservation, then they should perhaps stick to digging clad coins out of parks and beaches.

This is an opportunity for you, and we've all made mistakes like that. Embrace the opportunity, and enjoy your great find. It is wonderful that you are interested in donating to a museum. Most local museums, unlike what the folks on here would have you believe, genuinely are interested in displaying great finds for people to enjoy. Just ask my mentor in Virginia, who has had a significant part of his Civil War collection on PERMANENT display in a small local museum for a decade for all to enjoy. He started digging in the 60's so that gives you an idea of the Size of the collection.

Best Wishes,

Buckleboy

I agree that this hobby comes with a responsibility, but him cleaning this did nothing to harm it's historical significance. It only lowered it's "collector" value at best. I doubt he will get rid of this find anyway. Truth be told, many relic hunters fail to keep good logs of their finds which is something that should always be done so the locations and items won't be lost to time.

 

[Roland58]

Well said Buckleboy. He could still rebury it for a few months in his yard and get some patina back.

Absolutely. All is not lost by far. He could even have Roland or someone restore the patina on the piece.

Wait a minute. I don't know a thing about restoring patina. In fact, I probably would have cleaned it up like Alderan33 did.......except, I would have hit it with my buffer to really shine it up! A little jeweler's rouge would make that baby shine like new.

 

[BuckleBoy]

Well said Buckleboy. He could still rebury it for a few months in his yard and get some patina back.

Absolutely. All is not lost by far. He could even have Roland or someone restore the patina on the piece.

Wait a minute. I don't know a thing about restoring patina. In fact, I probably would have cleaned it up like Alderan33 did.......except, I would have hit it with my buffer to really shine it up! A little jeweler's rouge would make that baby shine like new.

Wasn't talking about you. You can visit Roland Frodigh's site for Hallowed Ground Restorations at the link below.

http://www.americanrelichunters.com/index.php?board=4.0

 

[CC Hunter]

The "As Dug" condition of this eagle cross belt plate, recovered from apparently arid sandy western soil, is in stark contrast to the often poorly surviving examples seen from most Civil War sites in the Eastern United States. To find such a well preserved specimen in this day and age, is an enviable accomplishment from the standpoint of many relic hunters. Electrolysis is a tricky procedure, and rarely used on brass and copper, with the possible exception of items such as privy finds where the heavy crust obscures all details. The iron loops on the back of the mid 19th century eagle cross belt plates, (and similarly constructed cartridge box plates), rarely survive intact from most recoveries seen in the past couple decades. Judging by the condition of comparable western finds, including the iron items recently posted in the "What Is It" Forum, we might venture that the iron loops on this example were intact and well preserved as found. The combination of three dissimilar metals on such a relic, is a very risky endeavor in the case of electrolysis cleaning. We are only seeing the effects of over-cleaning on the brass face (the most stable of the three metals). As an experienced conservator, the thoughts of what possible effect such an unorthodox method might have on the solder filled back, along with where the two iron wire loops run under the solder and then out above the surface, brings added concern.

BuckleBoy has addressed the topic very well. As a relic hunter and collector for over thirty years, I might add that my sentiments are quite mutual in agreement. Had it not been for the thoughtful attention shared by so many of our own mentors years ago, many of the best relics found would have surely seen questionable fates. We all have responsibility for preserving history the best possible way. Those that share knowledge, identify finds, interpret history, and strive to share the proper methods of caring for recovered relics, are in turn passing the torch to others. Anything less, may in effect be shirking our duty as responsible citizens.

CC Hunter

 

[relic lover]

It is clean now so why not polish it? Brasso would be great. I would love to see it really gleam (since you have taken it this far already). Don't worry in 150 years it will be green again!

 

[Nutriasub]

Beautiful plate, and great luck on finding it.

Cheers

 

[Deftone]

I'de rather see a cleaned up version with an extatic owner than a crusty version on whatsit. Sometime you should say "hey nice find." It's not the value you should run to with an item like this. I was Impressed. The history is still there. So he won't get ton's of cash. Oh well. I like it. I'm glad he shared it. But value always show's up. Is this hobby alway's fun? Hell ya! I'm sure he love's his find but u r stressing over the value. Remember if you dig something don't enjoy it. Patina pateena patina? What early find's have u threw away cause they were not civil war type? There R ton's of us out here. Value value value!!111!!

 

[BuckleBoy]

I'de rather see a cleaned up version with an extatic owner than a crusty version on whatsit. Sometime you should say "hey nice find." It's not the value you should run to with an item like this. I was Impressed. The history is still there. So he won't get ton's of cash. Oh well. I like it. I'm glad he shared it. But value always show's up. Is this hobby alway's fun? Hell ya! I'm sure he love's his find but u r stressing over the value. Remember if you dig something don't enjoy it. Patina pateena patina? What early find's have u threw away cause they were not civil war type? There R ton's of us out here. Value value value!!111!!

If you could see my collection, you would realize that there is little that I throw away, and even less that I don't document. That's 20 years worth. So when you've been digging that long, and your collection is taking over your home, you may have some decisions about what to keep and what to toss.

It's not all about value. Plates like these are common as far as plates go, and their value is not high to begin with. The real reason for my response is the fact that things like this are Symptomatic of larger issues of non-education and poor cleaning procedures. If you want a shiny plate, buy one off a reproduction website, Deftone.

When someone can post an eagle sword belt plate in the What is it section of the forum, and there be ten replies where folks don't know what the heck it is--or folks suggesting that it is a Colonial find because there is an eagle on it...that is again, a Symptom of a larger problem. And those ten replies were only the ones Chose to reply out of all those who viewed it.

And again, my request to a poster here to post what he called his "trash" because he didn't post a photo of anything he dug but the coins, and I figured he probably didn't know what he had. And sure enough, there was a good CW relic in there, and another item or two that are hard ones to find. I'm sure they were all destined for the junk bin or the trash can. It is Senseless not to take advantage of the knowledge and experience on this forum to help ID finds. Different symptom, same problem.


Posts like this one are one example of many.


In short, I don't think it is Ever wrong to promote education--and I don't think I've crossed any line in doing so here.


-Buck

 

[steelheadwill]

Nice lookin Eagle
Awesome Find...
kudos for your donations, It's great to share the wonder of history.
Heed the 'warnings' though, I've been there too

 

[Johnny Ringo Silver]

I'de rather see a cleaned up version with an extatic owner than a crusty version on whatsit. Sometime you should say "hey nice find." It's not the value you should run to with an item like this. I was Impressed. The history is still there. So he won't get ton's of cash. Oh well. I like it. I'm glad he shared it. But value always show's up. Is this hobby alway's fun? Hell ya! I'm sure he love's his find but u r stressing over the value. Remember if you dig something don't enjoy it. Patina pateena patina? What early find's have u threw away cause they were not civil war type? There R ton's of us out here. Value value value!!111!!

If you could see my collection, you would realize that there is little that I throw away, and even less that I don't document. That's 20 years worth. So when you've been digging that long, and your collection is taking over your home, you may have some decisions about what to keep and what to toss.

It's not all about value. Plates like these are common as far as plates go, and their value is not high to begin with. The real reason for my response is the fact that things like this are Symptomatic of larger issues of non-education and poor cleaning procedures. If you want a shiny plate, buy one off a reproduction website, Deftone.

When someone can post an eagle sword belt plate in the What is it section of the forum, and there be ten replies where folks don't know what the heck it is--or folks suggesting that it is a Colonial find because there is an eagle on it...that is again, a Symptom of a larger problem. And those ten replies were only the ones Chose to reply out of all those who viewed it.

And again, my request to a poster here to post what he called his "trash" because he didn't post a photo of anything he dug but the coins, and I figured he probably didn't know what he had. And sure enough, there was a good CW relic in there, and another item or two that are hard ones to find. I'm sure they were all destined for the junk bin or the trash can. It is Senseless not to take advantage of the knowledge and experience on this forum to help ID finds. Different symptom, same problem.


Posts like this one are one example of many.


In short, I don't think it is Ever wrong to promote education--and I don't think I've crossed any line in doing so here.


-Buck

I agree with what your saying BB and definately no lines crossed!
Johnny

 

[hikeinmts]

I found a Korean historical item 1,500 years old. "Loaned" it to a museum in Montgomery, Alabama, with the paperwork, through
a friend. About 3 years later had an opportunity to view the piece. It was common, among other much better pieces....and many
other pieces that were the same/similar. So, I tried to get the piece back. Letters to the museum went unanswered. Then,
excuses.......I was not the one that loaned the item, even though my name was on the loan letter. So, both my friend and I sent letters asking for the item back. Always something. (At that time, I was in the military, and moving place to place......couldn't
get back to Alabama to go to the office in person.) So, finally I understood that, even though they had many similar items, they WERE NOT GOING TO RETURN MINE. Finally, sent in a letter requesting that they ascribe it, and I would donate the item when given the $ worth documentation. Amazing how little time that took. Got to take the "donated" item off my income tax, but
that was not what I wanted to do. So, IMHO, my thinking, the people who run that museum have the same mindset as most
archeologists.....that we who go out and do the work are not worthy of the finds.....and so, it ends up in their museum, and that
is where it belongs......and no consideration is given to the hunter/gatherer of the artifact. I WILL NEVER DO THAT AGAIN, AND
I WILL WARN ALL OTHERS WHO ARE THINKING ABOUT IT.......DON'T!!!!

 

[ppratt]

I agree I have been ask to donate stuff I found, and hear to many nightmares about the process to do it.