Connecticut Sam
Bronze Member
- Sep 28, 2007
- 1,797
- 142
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
#19 have great comments.
Need some help on a cache hunt
- Thread starter richm
- Start date
Curtis
Hero Member
Stefen,
First let me say it was as fair and balanced as you can ask for. If you have been after a cache of any size you will need something like this. I have never had anyone question it. They have all signed it. The agreement is an non-lawyer's(me) attempt....didn't see anyone else posting one...what took YOU so long?
Your opinion is that someone is trying to rip someone off...I am not, and resent the implication. IF you read it you see that the agreement is actually stacked for the landowner. This is so that everyone is covered.
• The first line crossed out ...do you really think this is bad….let us reason together here… I found a good cache, the farmer was not the original owner of the cache his kids could have came after their share if they were part owners of the farm it was found on.
• Number 6 was because I felt it was only fair that I would furnish all the equipment…do you FEEL I should make him do it?
• What is wrong with furnishing them a list of people who might discreetly help them sell their portion?
• This farmer had not contact at all with people who could sell the coins…and if he wanted I would have done it for him…I was glad to be digging on his property! What is wrong with that? Unlike you it nere entered my mind to rip him off.
• The other persons list: number 2—see the first line
• This is self protection if you think its ripping someone off well you are sadly mistaken. The idea that the farmer may have got greedy became a possibility, then a reality …he decide not to let us dig…if he would have signed this then legal action could have made him let us dig it and it would have cost him not me…which would motivate him to be fair.
• Number 5 what in the world is wrong with that? I, unlike you. have a cutting edge piece of high tech equipment I don’t want him revealing to anyone else, and my methodologies are mine why does he need to tell anyone?
• The there is the big one…why not let him be responsible for paying all the taxes on HIS (did you really read this?) share. He needs to know he is responsible…he may come after you saying he thought YOU were responsible!
I really don’t think you understood the divided sections on this agreement. Now if you are such an expert provide us with one that is legal and is fair and balanced more than this! If you don’t then apologize OR do nothing it will mean the same thing.
Just so you know on many ocasions I have got by with a verbal OK or a handshake up until this one I told about above. It cost me my half of over $900,000...so unitl you do that just go ahead and get your verbal and limited agreements.
First let me say it was as fair and balanced as you can ask for. If you have been after a cache of any size you will need something like this. I have never had anyone question it. They have all signed it. The agreement is an non-lawyer's(me) attempt....didn't see anyone else posting one...what took YOU so long?
Your opinion is that someone is trying to rip someone off...I am not, and resent the implication. IF you read it you see that the agreement is actually stacked for the landowner. This is so that everyone is covered.
• The first line crossed out ...do you really think this is bad….let us reason together here… I found a good cache, the farmer was not the original owner of the cache his kids could have came after their share if they were part owners of the farm it was found on.
• Number 6 was because I felt it was only fair that I would furnish all the equipment…do you FEEL I should make him do it?
• What is wrong with furnishing them a list of people who might discreetly help them sell their portion?
• This farmer had not contact at all with people who could sell the coins…and if he wanted I would have done it for him…I was glad to be digging on his property! What is wrong with that? Unlike you it nere entered my mind to rip him off.
• The other persons list: number 2—see the first line
• This is self protection if you think its ripping someone off well you are sadly mistaken. The idea that the farmer may have got greedy became a possibility, then a reality …he decide not to let us dig…if he would have signed this then legal action could have made him let us dig it and it would have cost him not me…which would motivate him to be fair.
• Number 5 what in the world is wrong with that? I, unlike you. have a cutting edge piece of high tech equipment I don’t want him revealing to anyone else, and my methodologies are mine why does he need to tell anyone?
• The there is the big one…why not let him be responsible for paying all the taxes on HIS (did you really read this?) share. He needs to know he is responsible…he may come after you saying he thought YOU were responsible!
I really don’t think you understood the divided sections on this agreement. Now if you are such an expert provide us with one that is legal and is fair and balanced more than this! If you don’t then apologize OR do nothing it will mean the same thing.
Just so you know on many ocasions I have got by with a verbal OK or a handshake up until this one I told about above. It cost me my half of over $900,000...so unitl you do that just go ahead and get your verbal and limited agreements.
S
stefen
Guest
This rebuttal is based solely on my interpretation of how I perceive this Contract to be applicable in this situation, and shall not be construed as a personal attack, as implied.
Before I provide a rebuttal to this subject, if you remember your Contract Law 101, a contract has 4 primary elements; an offer, secondly; an acceptance, thirdly; the name of each participant, and lastly a time/date/place.
The offer would include the description of the items sought, in broad terms including the split percentage. The acceptance is the owners terms or conditions.First let me say it was as fair and balanced as you can ask for. (In your eyes, its fair and balanced...however richm only wants to get on the property as simply as possible)
If you have been after a cache of any size you will need something like this. (Agreed, however richm is not talkin g about bringing backhoes or other big rigs onto the land...this is a simple shovel and dig search)
I have never had anyone question it. They have all signed it. The agreement is an non-lawyer's(me) attempt....didn't see anyone else posting one...what took YOU so long? (I expressed an opinion only...not a personal attack and its certainly not a pissing match...so let it be a discussion)
Your opinion is that someone is trying to rip someone off...I am not, and resent the implication. IF you read it you see that the agreement is actually stacked for the landowner. This is so that everyone is covered. (The opinion pertaining to the contract and is not a personal attack...)•
The first line crossed out ...do you really think this is bad….let us reason together here… I found a good cache, the farmer was not the original owner of the cache his kids could have came after their share if they were part owners of the farm it was found on. (This is site-specific and the search & share is between the person searching and the legal owner...and is not relevant to third parties who do hold ownership)•
Number 6 was because I felt it was only fair that I would furnish all the equipment…do you FEEL I should make him do it? (No. Is the property owner aware, in richm's situation, that big equip is being brought in...that owner would probably shlt a brick and back away from any further dealings)•
What is wrong with furnishing them a list of people who might discreetly help them sell their portion? (Not pertanent to a contract)•
This farmer had not contact at all with people who could sell the coins…and if he wanted I would have done it for him…I was glad to be digging on his property! What is wrong with that? Unlike you it nere entered my mind to rip him off. (Again, lets disperse with personal attacks and direct the conversation to the contract) (Again, this is not pertanent to a contract)•
The other persons list: number 2—see the first line (When somebody enters a property with a big rig and begins an exploration, that person shall be responsible for numerous possibilities of damages that can be caused, or left) (The owner would be well advised to have the Contract reviewed by an attorney...RED FLAG)•
This is self protection if you think its ripping someone off well you are sadly mistaken. (I assume that you are referring to the Owner paying all legal fees...another RED FLAG...again, the owner would be well advised to have the Contract reviewed by an attorney...) The idea that the farmer may have got greedy became a possibility, then a reality …he decide not to let us dig…if he would have signed this then legal action could have made him let us dig it and it would have cost him not me…(What if for some reason you are the cause for a STOP NOTICE, is it right for the Owner to pay for your screwup or whatever?...think not) which would motivate him to be fair. (Wherever there is an IN, there needs to be and equal OUT statement...so if you want to protect your butt, then provide equal means for the owner, as well)
• Number 5 what in the world is wrong with that? I, unlike you. have a cutting edge piece of high tech equipment I don’t want him revealing to anyone else, and my methodologies are mine why does he need to tell anyone? (Another RED FLAG...again you are limiting the owner rights...again, the owner would be well advised to have the Contract reviewed by an attorney...) •
The there is the big one…why not let him be responsible for paying all the taxes on HIS (did you really read this?) share. He needs to know he is responsible…he may come after you saying he thought YOU were responsible! (Not your call...its his problem and yhou are not in the position to control this situation...Another RED FLAG...again you are limiting the owner rights...again, the owner would be well advised to have the Contract reviewed by an attorney...) •
I really don’t think you understood the divided sections on this agreement. Now if you are such an expert provide us with one that is legal and is fair and balanced more than this! If you don’t then apologize OR do nothing it will mean the same thing. (We are discussing how this contract is applicable to this situation, and its obvious its not.) (Secondly, there are no apologies due as this is a discussion of a contract and how its applicable to this specific situation...AND NOT A PERSONAL ATTACK...)
Just so you know on many ocasions I have got by with a verbal OK or a handshake up until this one I told about above. It cost me my half of over $900,000...so unitl you do that just go ahead and get your verbal and limited agreements. (We now have two opinions, yours and mine...I think that I'd look forward to a peer review.)
Before I provide a rebuttal to this subject, if you remember your Contract Law 101, a contract has 4 primary elements; an offer, secondly; an acceptance, thirdly; the name of each participant, and lastly a time/date/place.
The offer would include the description of the items sought, in broad terms including the split percentage. The acceptance is the owners terms or conditions.First let me say it was as fair and balanced as you can ask for. (In your eyes, its fair and balanced...however richm only wants to get on the property as simply as possible)
If you have been after a cache of any size you will need something like this. (Agreed, however richm is not talkin g about bringing backhoes or other big rigs onto the land...this is a simple shovel and dig search)
I have never had anyone question it. They have all signed it. The agreement is an non-lawyer's(me) attempt....didn't see anyone else posting one...what took YOU so long? (I expressed an opinion only...not a personal attack and its certainly not a pissing match...so let it be a discussion)
Your opinion is that someone is trying to rip someone off...I am not, and resent the implication. IF you read it you see that the agreement is actually stacked for the landowner. This is so that everyone is covered. (The opinion pertaining to the contract and is not a personal attack...)•
The first line crossed out ...do you really think this is bad….let us reason together here… I found a good cache, the farmer was not the original owner of the cache his kids could have came after their share if they were part owners of the farm it was found on. (This is site-specific and the search & share is between the person searching and the legal owner...and is not relevant to third parties who do hold ownership)•
Number 6 was because I felt it was only fair that I would furnish all the equipment…do you FEEL I should make him do it? (No. Is the property owner aware, in richm's situation, that big equip is being brought in...that owner would probably shlt a brick and back away from any further dealings)•
What is wrong with furnishing them a list of people who might discreetly help them sell their portion? (Not pertanent to a contract)•
This farmer had not contact at all with people who could sell the coins…and if he wanted I would have done it for him…I was glad to be digging on his property! What is wrong with that? Unlike you it nere entered my mind to rip him off. (Again, lets disperse with personal attacks and direct the conversation to the contract) (Again, this is not pertanent to a contract)•
The other persons list: number 2—see the first line (When somebody enters a property with a big rig and begins an exploration, that person shall be responsible for numerous possibilities of damages that can be caused, or left) (The owner would be well advised to have the Contract reviewed by an attorney...RED FLAG)•
This is self protection if you think its ripping someone off well you are sadly mistaken. (I assume that you are referring to the Owner paying all legal fees...another RED FLAG...again, the owner would be well advised to have the Contract reviewed by an attorney...) The idea that the farmer may have got greedy became a possibility, then a reality …he decide not to let us dig…if he would have signed this then legal action could have made him let us dig it and it would have cost him not me…(What if for some reason you are the cause for a STOP NOTICE, is it right for the Owner to pay for your screwup or whatever?...think not) which would motivate him to be fair. (Wherever there is an IN, there needs to be and equal OUT statement...so if you want to protect your butt, then provide equal means for the owner, as well)
• Number 5 what in the world is wrong with that? I, unlike you. have a cutting edge piece of high tech equipment I don’t want him revealing to anyone else, and my methodologies are mine why does he need to tell anyone? (Another RED FLAG...again you are limiting the owner rights...again, the owner would be well advised to have the Contract reviewed by an attorney...) •
The there is the big one…why not let him be responsible for paying all the taxes on HIS (did you really read this?) share. He needs to know he is responsible…he may come after you saying he thought YOU were responsible! (Not your call...its his problem and yhou are not in the position to control this situation...Another RED FLAG...again you are limiting the owner rights...again, the owner would be well advised to have the Contract reviewed by an attorney...) •
I really don’t think you understood the divided sections on this agreement. Now if you are such an expert provide us with one that is legal and is fair and balanced more than this! If you don’t then apologize OR do nothing it will mean the same thing. (We are discussing how this contract is applicable to this situation, and its obvious its not.) (Secondly, there are no apologies due as this is a discussion of a contract and how its applicable to this specific situation...AND NOT A PERSONAL ATTACK...)
Just so you know on many ocasions I have got by with a verbal OK or a handshake up until this one I told about above. It cost me my half of over $900,000...so unitl you do that just go ahead and get your verbal and limited agreements. (We now have two opinions, yours and mine...I think that I'd look forward to a peer review.)
richm:
Your original thoughts on not putting ideas into someone's head in right on.
Look, you don't have actual knowledge that a major cache was ever on the property. If you still want to coinhunt anyway keep quiet on your suspicions.
Then if by some accident of nature you find a hoard take a portion for your
efforts. Then you can go to the guy and say "Hey, if I was to find a container
of money would you give me half?" If he says yes, you have this folded scrap
of paper in your back pocket that has this one handwritten paragraph "I, so&so
agree to split 50-50 on any found money on my property with a metal detector
used by so&so on the dates described." Then if he signs ask if you can hunt
tomorrow too. Of course the X spot will have been made to look brand new.
The next day after coinhunting most of the day, go back to X. dig it out again,
go to landowner and go "You're not going to believe this but I found so&so.
Then in the unlikely event he balks or runs you off, you still have an ace up your sleeve.
But if you instead brace the guy with a yard long form wanting his signature
before you even start looking, you might as well find a frame and hang your
document on the wall as a reminder of things not to ever do again.
Your original thoughts on not putting ideas into someone's head in right on.
Look, you don't have actual knowledge that a major cache was ever on the property. If you still want to coinhunt anyway keep quiet on your suspicions.
Then if by some accident of nature you find a hoard take a portion for your
efforts. Then you can go to the guy and say "Hey, if I was to find a container
of money would you give me half?" If he says yes, you have this folded scrap
of paper in your back pocket that has this one handwritten paragraph "I, so&so
agree to split 50-50 on any found money on my property with a metal detector
used by so&so on the dates described." Then if he signs ask if you can hunt
tomorrow too. Of course the X spot will have been made to look brand new.
The next day after coinhunting most of the day, go back to X. dig it out again,
go to landowner and go "You're not going to believe this but I found so&so.
Then in the unlikely event he balks or runs you off, you still have an ace up your sleeve.
But if you instead brace the guy with a yard long form wanting his signature
before you even start looking, you might as well find a frame and hang your
document on the wall as a reminder of things not to ever do again.
S
stefen
Guest
lastleg said:
Absolutely correct
Connecticut Sam
Bronze Member
- Sep 28, 2007
- 1,797
- 142
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
#24 is correct.
OP
OP
richm
Sr. Member
- Apr 30, 2009
- 484
- 10
- Detector(s) used
- White's mxt Pro / Sun Ray DX / Ultimate Gray Ghost's / Lesche
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
- Thread starter
- #27
First of all I want to thank all you guys for the great ideas and help. I think lastleg hit it right on the button. The land owners are okay with me detecting as long as I don't disrupt anything, but I think if I raise any suspicion to a cache, they will have second thoughts. They know the history of this property as well as me. The idea of a cache is strictly suspicion on my part. STRONG suspicion, based on a lot of research. Facts: A lot of money went missing - The money was in the possession of a person who was anti government and didn't believe in banks - It is well documented that the person was very delusional and may have forgotten what (he/she) did with the money - The land has stayed in the same family and has been vacant for 150 years. There is more but without revealing the spot, that's all I can say for now. I might add that the owners do not live close by and I will be able to detect unsupervised. Like I said, I don't mind splitting with the landowners, but if I raise thoughts of a cache up front, the game is over. If I'm detecting and find a jar of coins. It's mine. But if I find the mother lode, I will inform the owners. I think the best bet like Lastleg said, is to casually say, like I've said in the past to people " If I find a million dollars, we'll split" I plan on doing this this summer (August) and will keep you guys informed along the way. I appreciate the input, keep it coming...Rich.
Curtis
Hero Member
Don't mean to hijack the thread so this will be my last mention of the subject:
Maybe I took your criticism wrong, it did irk me because i thought I was being more than fair to the land owners. As I mentioned before I have never had any legal stuff so Contracts 101 sounds impressive...where is the agreement/contract YOU would have them sign? As for the one I use if you don't like it...son, just don't use it.
I truly do hope you find a big one and get to keep it!
Maybe I took your criticism wrong, it did irk me because i thought I was being more than fair to the land owners. As I mentioned before I have never had any legal stuff so Contracts 101 sounds impressive...where is the agreement/contract YOU would have them sign? As for the one I use if you don't like it...son, just don't use it.
I truly do hope you find a big one and get to keep it!
S
stefen
Guest
Don't mean to hijack the thread so this will be my last mention of the subject: (I don't consider this conversation as a hijacking...it's more like a clarification of opinions as it applies to this thread and its application?
Maybe I took your criticism wrong, it did irk me because i thought I was being more than fair to the land owners. (Each site condition is different and must be treated as such)
As I mentioned before I have never had any legal stuff so Contracts 101 sounds impressive...where is the agreement/contract YOU would have them sign? (If I find that I need a contract, it would be customized to fit the actual conditions...the simplified contract with the lined out terms would be a good start)
As for the one I use if you don't like it...son, just don't use it. (Not to worry)
I truly do hope you find a big one and get to keep it!
Maybe I took your criticism wrong, it did irk me because i thought I was being more than fair to the land owners. (Each site condition is different and must be treated as such)
As I mentioned before I have never had any legal stuff so Contracts 101 sounds impressive...where is the agreement/contract YOU would have them sign? (If I find that I need a contract, it would be customized to fit the actual conditions...the simplified contract with the lined out terms would be a good start)
As for the one I use if you don't like it...son, just don't use it. (Not to worry
)I truly do hope you find a big one and get to keep it!
Curtis
Hero Member
Yes it is a face. We were up a long rocky branch and I took the picture across the creek...couldn't get over to view it...going back soon to check it out. It is cut right out of a natural boulder. Looking back we should have looked at the direction it was facing, but we were looking for a specific Swift item, a collapsed Natural Rock Bridge. I have had a couple of people ask to have the picture. Suppose its a KGC sign? haha Any ideas about it?
Connecticut Sam
Bronze Member
- Sep 28, 2007
- 1,797
- 142
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
Was any treasures founded yet?
LiquidAsset
Jr. Member
How about a different concept
? Just relax and enjoy the hunt. Follow your intuition.
? Just relax and enjoy the hunt. Follow your intuition.Connecticut Sam
Bronze Member
- Sep 28, 2007
- 1,797
- 142
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
Yes, show us some pictures.
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