Nighthunters Beware

[Stirling N5PIP]

"It will never happen to me" How many times have we said those words? Last night at 10:30pm I was leaving the beach after nighthunting for about an hour. It was dark at that section of the beach because of the sea turtle nesting season. I was leaving the beach and was walking up the driving ramp towards my jeep. Without any warning, I was hit over the head by punks looking to rob an "easy" mark. I went down to the ground and was really "woozy" & seeing stars. Somehow I didn't loose consciousness and was able to start swinging my long handled scoop. I guess that they weren't expecting their victim to fight back so they ran off.
I was able to call 911 on my cellphone and stumble to a local hotel and wait until help arrived. At the hospital the test showed that my injuries are minor (slight concussion and neck strain).
What did I learn? IT CAN HAPPEN TO ME (and YOU). And that I WILL start "carrying" after I get the concealed weapons permit.

 

[deepsix47]

The Remmington 870 is tops. In 1976 I took second in the nation in the Winchester Tournament of Champions Trap Shoot in California with a field grade 870.

Its been my choice for years and when I was running around the deserts and mountains in New Mexico and Colorado it was never far out of reach. There's nothing like the sound of the 870s slide action to get someones attention.

In the 80's the NRA went into prisons and did a study. Among other questions the inmates participating were asked "If you had broken into a home at night. What sound above all others would make you leave immediately??" It was a multiple choice answer and the only one in the survey that received a unanimous answer. "The slide action on a pump shotgun". It's kind of like a Rattlesnake, after you hear it once, you never forget it!!
Deepsix

 

[ivan salis]

see the "crooks" all agree -- their most feared "item" is a homeowner with a pump shotgun!! ---gets them running qiuckly far away --- (with good reason I might add) cops habe to "arrest" them ---- shotgun packing homeowers will shoot them and they know it--- Ivan

 

[teklord]

There is no substitute for having a detecting buddy with you. Double your awareness, and at least you can call for back up.

Tek

 

[G.I.B.]

Ivan: Your shotgun is in 'Plain View' , as in 'not concealed'. It is not considered as being on your person when in your shotgun rack up in the back window. Be advised that it's an 'easy' target for thieves when your parked in a secluded area. Also, keep the barrel pointed towards the passenger side of the truck. It will make for a nicer conversation with the cop standing at your drivers door, and if you ever decide you want to exit your truck blazing away... it's easier to get out.


This is for the State of Florida folks...

790.053 Open carrying of weapons.--

(1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device.

(2) A person may openly carry, for purposes of lawful self-defense:

(a) A self-defense chemical spray.

(b) A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes.

(3) Any person violating this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

I recommend the chemical spray. Keep a can in your pouch within easy reach or velcro it to the underside of your detector. You can wash off pepper spray, you can't wash off a bullet.

 

[ivan salis]

if in a remote area --- I leave the shotgun at home (don't want to "arm" crooks) and carry a P - 30 .22 mag 30 rd clip locked glove box style ---and I always carry my "gator digger" on my person while MDing ---if they are stupid enough to try to attack me close to my truck ,their going to have a very bad day if I get to my truck- --unless they have a pistol drawn on me they 've got a "fight" coming to rob me while detecting ---- Ivan

 

[karib2517]

I carry, God help the punks who try it on me.

 

[dahut]

Man you guys are scary and I’m worried about you. That sort of talk:

"Ill blast anyone who tries it with me."

"I'll carry a gun anywhere I want and I don’t care who see's it."

…Sounds good, but it is nutso, pure vigilantism. Hasn’t anyone ever heard that Discretion is the better part of Valor? I know you are angered by this sort of thing to one of our own. But, having a gun so you can shoot bad guys will get you more than you bargain for. Shoot a bad guy in some jurisdictions and that kind talk will have the DA down YOUR throat like fire.
Like it or not, this is a litigious society and if you fire your weapon you will be scrutinized. Hard. It happens to cops, it will happen to any citizen who uses a gun on a perp.

And don’t think pious arguments about “lawful use,” “peaceful pursuits,” or being “on the side of right” will make much difference. You will at least be examined and most likely end up in court. Not fun. Make it out on a justifiable, and you likely face civil suit. Most people love to say: “Better to be judged by 12 instead of carried by 6!” If that sounds like you, think twice. Let that get out in public, like on a forum, and you just made your DA’s case.

I’m VERY glad Sterling is alright and I’m sure he has much to think about. But please be careful, all of you, both in what you do and what advice you dispense.

Instead, keep your clam shut and go about your business in silence. Do what needs to be done, but keep it to yourself - and quit telling your own self such bravado crap. You gotta know when to hold em, and when to fold ‘em…. Kenny Rogers got it right. One person here made some good sense and you all might want to listen to it again:

“First off I've been a cop for 33 years and I rarely carry my firearm, only when detecting in bad areas, which I usually don't do.”
Point # 1: Being "aware of your surroundings" means more than seeing an attack coming. More importantly, it goes to threat avoidance and better strategic planning. I mean, the beach, alone, in the hotel district of a tourist area - late at night?! Where else would you imagine a decent clip thief to be lying in wait?

"This situation came out of nowhere…a gun would have done no good, you never would have got to them."
Point #2: Just because you have a gun doesn’t mean you have a shield or a death ray.
Others have suggested that you fire some warning shots, too. A real a no-no in urban areas. The gun is the last resort and may never be needed... if you plan well.

“Martial arts skills will do you no good unless you have practiced very long and hard. Most people don't realize what a street fight is like. It's not like in the gym and not like on TV, believe me.”
Point #3: We’re talking reality here and this is some excellent comment. Your average street thug is a hard-cored individual. Fighting, stabbings, drugs, beatings are all part and parcel of his world. They are not normal people, alas you are. If you are going to bank on martial arts, then you need to have more training than a few belt matches down at the dojo.

“Be aware, stay out of areas where there could be problems and by chance you are ever attacked, go crazy and use any weapon you have at hand to survive.”
Point # 4: Excellent summary

Get some real-life training and learn what you are really about, my friends. And Sterling, from me to you, I am sincerely glad you are okay.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

NY Times

WASHINGTON, June 27, 2005

The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.

The law abiding citizen is caught between a hard place and a rock. It is every ones responsibility to protect themselves, their property and their family, but we are not suppose to have the means or the right to do what is necessary to do it.

If you shoot an intruder in your home, you had better be sure he falls in your home, not in the street from the shot.

Dahut, I understand where your coming from, but that does not make it right.

Surrender your right to go places because the lowlifes own it after dark. "it goes to threat avoidance and better strategic planning. I mean, the beach, alone, in the hotel district of a tourist area - late at night?! Where else would you imagine a decent clip thief to be lying in wait?" If the police know they are there, why aren't they there arresting them, why aren't there any stings waiting for them. I am more concerned about them then someone "paying for a date", or growing a little weed.

If the courts are going to tie the police hands then the public has no choice but to try to protect theirselves. If someone breaks into my home, I am shooting, as far as I am concerned I'm in fear for my wife's life and mine, I will take my chance with the jury. Makes no difference if he is a 45 year old harden criminal or a 18 year old.

If I'm on a jury and Joe public is on trial for shooting an intruder or a mugger I will give you 2 guesses what my vote is going to be.

 

[ScubaFinder]

First off, glad you're OK Sterling! I'm of the opinion that I wish you had opened up one of the thugs with the scoop swings, but hey, to each his own right? On another note, don't forget your car! A good friend of mine who recently visited the area had his car broken into and cleaned out in daylight while hunting. A few days later, I was getting out to do some beach hunting and there were several cops in the parking lot, I asked what was going on, and it was another daylight smash and grab on a car. He mentioned that they loved treasure hunters, because they knew we'd be at the beach focused on other things for hours, making our vehicles particularly easy targets. Your car is more vulnerable than you are, so don't leave anything valuable in it!

The hunting buddy comment was the best all around advice, not everyone has that instinctual self defense mechanism. Plus you can be the best self defense guy around, and a properly placed whack on the head makes it all useless. Situational awareness is paramount, but a group is much less likely to be targeted than a loner. I can hold my own with the best of them, but you still wont catch me out wandering the beaches alone in the middle of the night. (well, maybe after a good nor-easter, but that's different.

Jas

 

[mumszie]

Boy! This post is down right getting scary. It started out as a warning and has turned into a macho, gun slinging free for all. This isn't the wild, wild west guys! We are suppose to be a long way from that. Funny thing is - I can see the point from both sides. You SHOULD be able to go out and do what you want, when you want without having to be scared. It's a free country. Right? The police SHOULD protect you no matter where you go or what you do or when you want to do it. Well, that is a nice thought but our police officers are flesh and blood men and women who are overworked, underpaid and not backed up very well when they do their jobs and to top that all off there are even some bad apples among them. On the other hand, people should use a little common sense. You SHOULD be able to protect yourself and your family but the reality of that is.... like dahut said YOU will be held accountable and it may not turn out to be to your advantage even though you were protecting your self and family. You may go to jail (not a pretty picture). Worst of all YOU may end up being the one hurt or killed.

I will try to be responsible and not put myself in a position to be hurt if I can help it by being aware of where I am. I won't go to places where I will be extremely vunerable. Since I am a woman, I won't hunt alone at night. All this for the chance of finding a little clad or a piece of jewerly no matter what it may be worth. I figure I am worth more. Well I am going on and on and not making a lot of sense. I for one am going to quit reading this paticular thread. I, like dahut, am truely glad that Stirling is ok and I appreciate his warning.

 

[dahut]

Boy! This post is down right getting scary. It started out as a warning and has turned into a macho, gun slinging free for all. This isn't the wild, wild west guys! We are suppose to be a long way from that.
It always goes that way, when people get their dander up...

Funny thing is - I can see the point from both sides. You SHOULD be able to go out and do what you want, when you want without having to be scared. It's a free country. Right? The police SHOULD protect you no matter where you go or what you do or when you want to do it.
All those righteous arguments I mentioned...

Well, that is a nice thought but our police officers are flesh and blood men and women who are overworked, underpaid and not backed up very well when they do their jobs and to top that all off there are even some bad apples among them.
And as noted, they are not obligated to protect YOU the citizen, although they try. Their charge is for the greater good of the group as a whole. It has been said that we are only three weeks away from anarchy at any given time. Seen that way, the cops are spread pretty thin....

On the other hand, people should use a little common sense. You SHOULD be able to protect yourself and your family but the reality of that is.... like dahut said YOU will be held accountable and it may not turn out to be to your advantage even though you were protecting your self and family. You may go to jail (not a pretty picture). Worst of all YOU may end up being the one hurt or killed.
Lawyers, prosecutors and law enforcement are more receptive now to the armed citizen. In the end, they're learning that theirs fear over nutjob citizens running amok with guns were unfounded. BUT, it's still hard for them to admit that and relinquish control into the hands of the everyman--- so dont bank on their clemency for what you think is a righteous act...

I will try to be responsible and not put myself in a position to be hurt if I can help it by being aware of where I am. I won't go to places where I will be extremely vunerable. Since I am a woman, I won't hunt alone at night. All this for the chance of finding a little clad or a piece of jewerly no matter what it may be worth. I figure I am worth more.
I thought about this part of it a lot. Have you heard the ancient Greek story of Icarus and his father, Daedalus? Imprisoned by King Minos in the Maze of Crete, Daedalus fashioned wings from wax and feathers for himself and his son, so they could escape from Minos's maze. They took a risk and did something no man had done before - they flew!
BUT, their escape was tempered by a warning from Daedalus: DO NOT fly too close to the sun or the wax will melt and you will fall to your death.
Alas, poor Icarus, smitten by their cleverness and joy of flight, forgot his father's warning - and fell into the sea, now named for him. You see, he did what he already knew was a bad idea. The warnings were there... he ignored them.
Should we avoid every risk? NO! Icarus and Deadalus gained their freedom because they took a chance. But, are we so clever at finding our little baubles and trinkets that we turn a blind eye to danger? Some things should be thought out with awareness, and less with moral indignation...

I for one am going to quit reading this paticular thread. I, like dahut, am truely glad that Stirling is ok and I appreciate his warning.
I think Ill follow suit, kiddo. Good idea...

 

[FLauthor]

I always try to hunt with a partner. I always hunt with one earphone off, so I can hear what's behind me. I'm always aware of my surroundings, glancing back behind me often when walking back to the car. If I'm land hunting, I have a 12 inch needle sharp Ice pick probe, another brass tip probe and a sharpened Gator digger and sometimes a combat knife. No punk in their right mind wants to screw with an armed citizen. Water hunting, I have my gator digger and long handled stainless scoop that can be twirled around. If it connects, somebody is going to need a paramedic. I keep my cell phone in a waterproof bag inside my shirt. I'm a unarmed Disney Security officer since 1977 and most criminals are cowards looking for an easy mark. They feel safe when they have buddies but don't want to tangle with anybody who might injure or kill them.
If you are intent on carrying a gun, PLEASE leave the bullets at home. Go out and buy snake loads shotshells. Get threatened by a punk with a knife then shoot them in the face and they can learn how to read braille in prison. Bullets can travel a long way and might injure or kill an innocent person or kid. Shotshell only needs to be pointed and some of those 150 pellets are going to get them.
Pepper Spray: the beach can be windy and pepper spray can blow back and get you. Get Bear Pepper Foam, it won't blow back and has good range. I've added some URL's for your research into self defense. When you are TH'ing anywhere, use your Common Sense. Good luck and stay safe.

http://www.gunblast.com/Dixie-Derringer.htm

http://www.bondarms.com/

http://www.impactguns.com/store/naa.html

CCI .45Colt shotshell: 10 rounds cost $16.00,
box of .410 shotshells, #4 shot, about $4.00/25 rounds.


http://www.tbotech.com/pepperfoam.htm Foam: If you are terrified of your pepper spray blowing back onto you, try the foam pepper spray option. The foam spray option is best for immediate saturation, without any blow back. If it is a windy day, you can use the foam pepper spray without worrying about “blow back”. Once the foam hits the attacker, it cannot be wiped away without causing symptoms. It is similar to a thick and sticky shaving cream with 5.3 million Scoville Heat Units of hot pepper. The pepper works instantly, so when the attacker tries to wipe it off, it will only make the situation worse for them. Again, the foam causes the eyes to tear, the nose to run, excessive coughing and shortness of breath.

 

[ivan salis]

sound advice there

 

[dahut]

SO... You advocate handgun shotshells for self defense against armed attack?
That's interesting. I wouldnt, but thats interesting.

 

[Leon]

Sorry to hear of your troubles, but glad to hear your going to be ok...
Too bad the scoop didn't connect. I'm not one for violence, but those PUNKS would have deserved what they got...
Be careful out there all,,, & Happy hunting~

 

[ivan salis]

well less chance of a stray / missed shot hitting someone other than a crook as shot does not travel as far a a normal day 45 or 38 bullet will---(WARNING --however the "only time you are legally allowed to use a gun is a deadly force type encounter" ---THUS YOU HAD TO USE DEADLY FORCE (GUN) TO STOP THE DEADLY FORCE ATTACK--- YOU HAD TO "KILL" HIM IN SELF DEFENCE) and THUS SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN USING #4 bird (turkey) shot which is generally by most folks not thought of as a "leathal" round ---would badly hurt at the least / possiblly kill if shot in the face/eyes area only if you were very lucky ---they will say you meant to "maim" him ---not to kill him thus it must not have meet the level of "life threating" danger that allows you to use a gun on someone ----- plus if the attacker was wearing a thick leather jacket however and you body shot him? it might not work the way you planned -- Ivan

 

[dahut]

10 reasons why birdshot is a bad idea...

Prelude: Note the use of the word lethal throughout this post.

1. The object of shooting ANYONE is to stop a lethal encounter.
If you intend to do less, then you acknowledge the situation as less than lethal and a gun is the wrong choice.

2. The use of bird shot minimizes the encounter.
So you have to ask just what IS your intent? To stop a lethal encounter or to get away with shooting someone? No middle ground exists when you draw a firearm.
The innocent bystander issue, while well intended and important, is secondary in lethal force encounters.

3. In either case, by employing birdshot, you show intent to only maim another person – felon or not.
(In your case FLauthor, you express that intent openly). That looks BAD in court…real bad.

4. Your minute bird shot load will be mostly ineffective unless you hit the face/eyes precisely.

5. Under the stress of a criminal assault on your person, accurate shooting is very difficult to achieve.
All Ramboesque rhetoric aside, this is truth.

6. The eyes and face are EXTREMELY difficult targets to hit...especially under stres
Surgical precision is out. Just watch any of those “Real World Cop Video” programs. Lots of people shooting at close range and often enough, no one is even hurt!

7. Center body mass offers the best chance of a stopping shot on your attacker.
Police, who face the possibility of lethal assault everyday, are trained in center body shooting, what is sometimes known as “StressFire” technique. They use real ammo, by the way.

8. Statistically, handgun shootings are NOT lethal anyway...at least not immediately
Something like 70% of shooting victims who are actually hit survive. This is with the best ammunition - that "real stuff" I mentioned above. This doesn't account for those who are merely wounded.

9. You virtually guarantee your assailants survival with the tiny amount of birdshot in a revolver cartridge.
I guess that makes you a nice guy, but in essence, you have used a gun with non-lethal ammo to stop a non-lethal assault (see #1),

10. Now you have assured a live plaintiff, instead of a “stop-assault” assailant.
Next stop, Litigation Land.

If you intend to use a gun for protection, fine. I'm all for it and I defend your right to do so. But, if you pursue this course, get bloody serious about it. Load one or two of those silly shot rounds if you must, but fill the rest of the cylinder with the real stuff...for when they dont work.

NOTE: Shot rounds in factory loadings (the only kind you should use) are only found in revolver cartridges. If you prefer an autoloader, all this is a moot point.

If you choose a gun for protection against assault, keep in mind that it is considered lethal force which you wield. DO NOT muck about with half measures my friend. That is no time for compromises. If you intend anything less, use something else.

 

[erikk]

....and maybe it we talk nice to them they will leave us alone. .45 everywhere all the time
Retired state police.

 

[dahut]

.45 everywhere all the time
Retired state police.

Thats what I call committment!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law.

The state of Florida in the United States became the first to enact such a law on October 1, 2005. The Florida statute allows the use of deadly force when a person reasonably believes it necessary to prevent the commission of a "forcible felony." Under the statute, forcible felonies include "treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual."

The Florida law authorizes the use of defensive force by anyone "who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be." Furthermore, under the law, such a person "has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony." The statute also grants civil and criminal immunity to anyone found to have had such a reasonable belief.

Florida Statutes Title XLVI Chapter 776