No More; "Smoke em if youve got em!" ? UPDATED

Montana Jim

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No More; "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em!" ? UPDATED

Ban on tobacco urged in military

By Gregg Zoroya, USA TODAY

WASHINGTON — Pentagon health experts are urging Defense Secretary Robert Gates to ban the use of tobacco by troops and end its sale on military property, a change that could dramatically alter a culture intertwined with smoking.

Jack Smith, head of the Pentagon's office of clinical and program policy, says he will recommend that Gates adopt proposals by a federal study that cites rising tobacco use and higher costs for the Pentagon and Department of Veterans Affairs as reasons for the ban.

The study by the Institute of Medicine, requested by the VA and Pentagon, calls for a phased-in ban over a period of years, perhaps up to 20. "We'll certainly be taking that recommendation forward," Smith says.

A tobacco ban would confront a military culture, the report says, in which "the image of the battle-weary soldier in fatigues and helmet, fighting for his country, has frequently included his lit cigarette."

Also, the report said, troops worn out by repeated deployments often rely on cigarettes as a "stress reliever." The study found that tobacco use in the military increased after the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan began.

Pentagon spokeswoman Cynthia Smith said the department supports a smoke-free military "and believes it is achievable." She declined to elaborate on any possible ban.

One in three servicemembers use tobacco, the report says, compared with one in five adult Americans. The heaviest smokers are soldiers and Marines, who have done most of the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, the study says. About 37% of soldiers use tobacco and 36% of Marines. Combat veterans are 50% more likely to use tobacco than troops who haven't seen combat.

Tobacco use costs the Pentagon $846 million a year in medical care and lost productivity, says the report, which used older data. The Department of Veterans Affairs spends up to $6 billion in treatments for tobacco-related illnesses, says the study, which was released late last month.

Along with a phased-in ban, the report recommends requiring new officers and enlisted personnel to be tobacco-free, eliminating tobacco use on military installations, ships and aircraft, expanding treatment programs and eliminating the sale of tobacco on military property. "Any tobacco use while in uniform should be prohibited," the study says.

The military complicates attempts to curb tobacco use by subsidizing tobacco products for troops who buy them at base exchanges and commissaries, says Kenneth Kizer, a committee member and architect of California's anti-tobacco program.

Seventy percent of profits from tobacco sales — $88 million in 2005 — pays for recreation and family support programs, the study stays.

Strong leadership could make the military tobacco-free in five to 10 years, Kizer says. President Obama, he says, could set an example for the military by ending his own smoking habit once and for all. Last month, Obama said he is "95% cured" but "there are times when I mess up" and smoke.
 

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Cappy Z.

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Re: No More; "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em!" ?

IF we can be civil....

Tobacco has killed more people than all the wars in history combined. And still does.

Secondhand smoke (non-filtered) is horrible for children and pets and others in the home.

Period.
 

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Montana Jim

Montana Jim

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Re: No More; "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em!" ?

I do not disagree...

However...

It's legal. It is still legal to smoke! The US Military has led the way in many ways - maybe someday we'll realize this was smart.

In the meantime - it's another right the men and women in uniform lost because they are a captive audience. It's the only place where tyrants and a**holes can do what they want without getting beat down.

As a 25 year military guy and a 25 year smoker (quitter) I am appauled at another legal act being taken from the troops.

They are killing for their country - let 'em smoke. Holy crap, many states wnat mary-jane legal because someone wants it to dull the pain, but they can't have a marlboro?
 

lokkenpa

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Re: No More; "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em!" ?

I don't mean to stir the pot here...

First off, I do not disagree with either of you and have served 11 yrs in the Marine Corps....

However, when you sign that contract the contract states that you will be giving up your constitutional rights and follow the orders of your chain of command. So if the Secretary of Defense signs the orders to phase out tobacco products and their use form DoD installations, there is not too much the military members are going to be able to do about it.

Is the proposal going to ban the use just on DoD installations allowing the service members to continue to use tobacco off base while out clubbing or is the ban going to be while they are serving in the military on active duty or for the duration of there contract? If its going to be based on contractual length, that will open more issues that could effect someones constitutional rights by dictating how someone lives while on the inactive reserve list.

I am not taking any sides on this issue because I can see and understand both sides of the argument. I am just pointing out and voicing some points that others might have. I am not trying to start any arguments. I am just saying that there is a multitude of things that need to be considered about making a decision of this magnitude and it will probably be years before any decision is made. I don't think a decision can be made quickly.

Just my 2 cents.
 

warsawdaddy

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Re: No More; "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em!" ?

I'm not taking sides either,however,the smokes is one of the only things that got a lot of troops through the winters and mud of WW11.I don't think it will save that much on military health issues,not when you look at not only the number of deaths but the long term expense from mental and injuries suffered.If men are willing to walk across Europe and give their life,let them enjoy their smokes while they can.
 

ivan salis

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Re: No More; "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em!" ?

as commander in cheif --- if they ban smoking --the president couldn't legally smoke either . (love to see them "enforce" that )

the military wants to "cut" cost --- smoking ups health care cost on a long term basis --- if they start a if you smoke we will not accept you into the military program starting as of today -- its a "accecptible" means of discrimation against smokers--- saying your a smoker and we (the US govt) do not want to pay for the increased health care cost long term that smokers cost..

if the govt can "dodge" hiring folks for smoking citing health care cost --whats next ? --- not hiring overwieght folks for "govt" civil service jobs using the same reasoning --your overwieght --"overwieght" folks cost more long term health care wize --so not hiring you --same basic reasoning at work .

they already cut out "overwieght" folks who can not make the grade "phyiscally" in the military --- thus weeding out "older folks" who on adverage tend to gain weight as they age --unless they basically turn into fitness health nuts to stay in shape -- to keep their "jobs"

if its legal for the govt to do it ---other bussiness's will follow suit ( to cut their cost as well )

so only the "beautiful" heathy folks need to apply for these positions.
 

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Montana Jim

Montana Jim

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Re: No More; "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em!" ? UPDATED

UPDATE:

Pentagon Says No to Ban on War Zone Smoking Despite Study

Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell says troops already are under enough stress and making enough sacrifices from fighting the two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Pentagon says it won't ban smoking by troops in war zones, despite a recent study recommending a tobacco-free military.

Full article here: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/15/military-group-fumes-possible-smoking-ban-troops/
 

ivan salis

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Re: No More; "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em!" ? UPDATED

so its ok to smoke in war zones --but what about at USA home bases or non war zone postings ?? --smokings ok while fighting --but once we get you home its quit the habit or get kicked out of the military ? ---humm sounds like one heck of a double standard at work. --- did anyone clue in the military that tabacco is one of the hardest things in the world to quit "habit" wize ?-- harder than most drug habits.

trust me copd is the only thing that made me quit ---not being able to breath hardly --it was quit or die .
 

greydigger

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Re: No More; "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em!" ? UPDATED

My son who is in Iraq right now for the third time does not smoke.
That is his decision. I respect that and applaud him for it. Saves money.
I have smoked since I was a teen. I also swam a lot and angered health folks
that said I should not be able to hold my breath under water since I was a smoker.

Here is a comment about Gov. and smoking :

http://www.nycclash.com/Zion-Skeptic...ce_And_SHS.PDF

Now I do not encourage smoking, nor do I promote alchohol.
I was raised in the last century and there are many things we find out now that say
I should be dead. According to the "News Articles".

My Grandfather who raised me when I was very young was born in 1887.
He drank 'shine, smoked all the time, ate fried foods, and worked hard.
Sad to say he only lasted 89 yrs. with that type of living.

WWI didn't kill him so he went on with his life.

I think it is wrong to put folks in places where they are defending our country and tell them they cannot have some ease.

Grey
 

mrs.oroblanco

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Re: No More; "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em!" ? UPDATED

One more "hit" for the "health Nazi's".

It absolutely amazes me when people want to be a free nation - except for the things they don't like, then, they want to make a law.

It also amazes me that there are all these people who fight for you, day and night, but then tell them they don't have the right to do (in their free time), what they would like to do. Protect us, fight for us, go to war for us, but god, you are evil if you smoke.

The two top 'groups' who smoke are (in order),

Medical professionals
soldiers


That's what I want, a nervous surgeon or a nervous guy with an M-16.

B
 

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Montana Jim

Montana Jim

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Re: No More; "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em!" ? UPDATED

mrs.oroblanco said:
One more "hit" for the "health Nazi's".

It absolutely amazes me when people want to be a free nation - except for the things they don't like, then, they want to make a law.

It also amazes me that there are all these people who fight for you, day and night, but then tell them they don't have the right to do (in their free time), what they would like to do. Protect us, fight for us, go to war for us, but god, you are evil if you smoke.

The two top 'groups' who smoke are (in order),

Medical professionals
soldiers


That's what I want, a nervous surgeon or a nervous guy with an M-16.

B

great post
 

Monty

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Re: No More; "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em!" ? UPDATED

I started smoking in the service. I smoked for over 40 years. I almost died twice because of it. It was the hardest "habit" I have ever had to give up. It was an addiction instead of a habit I found out. In boot camp I was 18 years old. No one knew about the hazards of smoking then and there was no surgeon general's warning on a pack of cigarettes. Cigarettes were cheap, 19 cents a pack and less than 2 dollars a carton. The only breaks we had from training was 5 minute smoke breaks in boot camp. When the Instructor said, "Light 'em if you have'em" everyone did after the first few days. If you didn't have 'em you had to pick up trash for 5 minutes instead of smoking and it was 110 degrees in San Antonio at the time! Smokers got to sit down in the shade and smoke. Overseas, American cigarettes were worth more than money. I use to get nonsmokers to give me their ration cards and buy extra cartons to trade for souvenirs to take back home. (Yes smokes were rationed, just like food stamps!) You could get ten cartons a month on one ration card.
I quit last fall in October. I actually almost quit in the spring, but smoked only 3 or 4 a day for months trying to quit. I have had a heart attack, I have had 4 stents put in my arteries. I have early stage emphysema and breathing problems. My life is probably shortened by several years. I never thought much about that when I was 18. I never thought much about it when I was 40, but the 50s almost killed me! I think about it a lot now. I learned my lesson too late. The damage is done. The only thing I don't have so far is cancer. One of my best friends wasn't so lucky. He died last summer of lung cancer. He started smoking in the military also.
So what? I doubt the military will ban smoking but I hope they will do something to curb it in young recruits. I hope they come out with a strong anti-smoking campaign to be included in basic training. Monty
 

Marc

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Re: No More; "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em!" ? UPDATED

Let me get this straight...

Smoking tobacco should be allowed because it is legal. Are there any other reasons to keep it legal, except for the FREEDOM to do it and people's enjoyment of it? It certainly isn't GOOD for people!

..... and smoking pot should not be allowed because it is illegal. Is there ANY good reason to keep it illegal? going so far as incarcerating people, confiscating their belongings, and ruining their lives - because heaven forbid - it's ILLEGAL? (It certainly isn't GOOD for people either!) Is FREEDOM something that is decided FOR you BY OTHERS?

I don't understand why the most addictive, carcinogenic, deadly, and IMHO disgusting drug (butts everywhere and the stench of it) is legal - and pot is not.

Maybe it's because big tobacco can afford to run the drug war and squash the competition! If that's the case, I suggest people take their government back and boycott the KILLER TAX! >:(

... and no I didn't go to college :wink:

If they came up with a cleaner way to get the niccy fix, I wouldn't give a damn, but I hate constantly running into clouds of toxic stench and seeing the remnants of this drug strewn everywhere. People that smoke a pack a day+ (MAN I can NOT imagine that - and yes I have smoked a few cigarettes) are killing themselves, annoying others, putting a burden on the health care system, AND paying Uncle Sam - what a deal! WHY do people smoke SO many ciggys? BECAUSE THEY ARE ADDICTIVE DAMN IT!

All I am doing is pointing out the LACK OF LOGIC, THE HYPOCRISY and THE GREED.

Do I think soldiers should be able to smoke while fighting? YES! :icon_thumleft: Do I think this drug should be sold on every street corner in the country? HELL NO! >:(

This is my LAST post on this smelly subject. I PROMISE! 8)
 

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Montana Jim

Montana Jim

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Re: No More; "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em!" ? UPDATED

Smoking tax goes to the children... federal tobacco tax increases all go to the school systems!

Smoke for the children!

Marc... I never said it was good for you or healthy for you... just that it's legal, so leave it alone. There are enough laws already... the warning are posted, good enough. It's time for the lawmakers to make LESS laws! Soon enough though Obama will outlaw it completely under his government health dictatorship.

I think drinking causes WAY more problems than ciggys, and think that should be left alone too.
 

mrs.oroblanco

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Re: No More; "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em!" ? UPDATED

I just want the government to stop interferring in private matters - whether it is smoking or fattening foods or pop, and whether it is me or my children/grandchildren.

That's the last thing I will say, Marc.

B
 

greydigger

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Re: No More; "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em!" ? UPDATED

That was a bit uncalled for prospector40.
 

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Montana Jim

Montana Jim

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Re: No More; "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em!" ? UPDATED

prospector40 said:
Sounds to me that you just want to smoke dope.

If that was for me - I was thinking Marlboro Lights.
 

Monty

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Re: No More; "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em!" ? UPDATED

Pot is illegal for a number of reason. First, no matter how often it is denied by pot heads, it is a drug that often leads to more harmful drugs such as meth and heroin, cocaine, etc, etc. I've never seen a real addict that didn't start with pot and usually went to a more addictive drug. When inhibitions are down and you are high on pot, it is not unusual just to "try" something stronger even though one has no intention of becoming an addict. Second, pot distorts time and slows your reaction time and is a killer behind the wheel. You are also more likely to try to "beat that train at the crossing", or to make a rolling stop and enter into traffic when another vehicle is coming. Just a couple of simple examples I have witnessed first hand. And like cigarettes, it is harmful to your health. And most of all, because I am allergic to it and smoke from it. When I was a teenager I could never go to a concert because of all the pot smoke! How do I know all this? I was a cop as many of you already know. I supervised the City Jail for nearly 3 years off and on and personally witnessed what the undesirable effects of pot were.
Now don't get me wrong, I think tobacco and alcohol are equally as addictive or even worse than pot in many respects. I know that prohibition never worked for alcohol and it probably isn't working for pot either. I can't count the number of people who have ruined their lives, destroyed their marriage or even caused the death of someone while they were drinking. But at least pot being illegal is socially unacceptable with most of our society and hopefully it has kept people who are high from getting out in the public and behind the wheel of a auto or dangerous machinery. I also have not called for a ban on smoking in the military. All I am recommending is that boot camp training include anti-smoking education for recruits and perhaps a quit smoking program for older military personnel. And I am all for medicinal pot smoking, as long as it is well regulated and inspected by a regulatory commission or by our doctors. Look at California that has legal medicinal pot. Any pothead in town can get a Rx for pot just by going to one of the quack doctors, faking an illness and asking for a prescription. My sister has glaucoma and pot relieves the symptoms and preserves her vision, but she has to buy it from a dealer because it is illegal where she lives. She has always been very antidrug but she sometimes will smoke one joint just before bedtime for her eyes. Being illegal she has no way of knowing what strength or how safe the pot is and that's a problem. What if it is laced with PCP or agent orange or an other harmful substance? That's the problem with no strict oversite.
So, there are two sides to the coin and I am looking at it from both sides or at least I am trying to. Monty
 

Marc

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Re: No More; "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em!" ? UPDATED

Again, are your freedoms things that are decided for you by others? (please answer that because I am SO tired of America waving the flag of the "FREE")

If one decides to take ONE puff of another plant (non tobacco) that gives them the same effect as smoking an ENTIRE PACK (and yes you can get wasted on nicotine) of another TAXED, CARCINOGENIC plant, should that be a criminal offense? I think not.

To ignore the fact that ALCOHOL AND TOBACCO are THE gateway drugs is just plain ridiculous. I stole my dads cigs and rum, and it lead down a VERY, VERY dangerous path.... that I luckily survived.

I will ALWAYS side with common sense. Cigarettes and alcohol are THE gateway drugs. PERIOD.

ok, I lied, THIS is my last post in this thread!
 

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Montana Jim

Montana Jim

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Re: No More; "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em!" ? UPDATED

:) Keep on posting Marc! It's like therepy...



My new gateway drug is coffee... :-\
 

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